eSJayDee Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 GFCI can be built into the circuit breaker or somewhere in line. I might be mistaken, but it's possible that "overhead" lights might not be required to be on a GFCI, only outlets, etc. (I also believe it's recommended that lights be on a separate circuit from the outlets so that you can see in case they're tripped. (They're on the same circuit in my house.))
Just Jack Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 We found out after the fact that the builder didn't have the best reputation - and cut a lot of corners. I'd be shocked if it got past the inspector though, so I don't know... It's possible then that he put in the GFCI outlets for the inspection, then pulled them out once the inspector was done and put in cheaper, non-GFCI outlets.
eSJayDee Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 ...I'd be shocked if it got past the inspector though, Yes, indeed, you might. Seriously, I doubt someone would do that, especially if an electrician did the work. Ignoring the electrician's reputation, they probably charge more per outlet installation that the cost saved by removing the GFCI outlet.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Fez... What kind of wiring do you have in the house? Is it in conduit or is it romex (romex is often used in a generic sense to refer to any type of non-metallic sheathed electrical cable. More to the point, it's electrical wiring sheathed in a plastic coating.) ??
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 What sort of light bulbs does it use? Are they regular incandescent 110v ones or are they like low voltage florescent?If they're florescent the fixture likely has a transformer in it. They cost about $20 & although there's quite a few wires, they're color coded so it's pretty easy to replace. As others have warned - MAKE SURE YOU FLIP THE BREAKER OPEN b4 working on anything. One of the reasons why I don't use the new CFB's: Years ago, I put dimmers on all my lights... You know what? Some of the bulbs in my can lights have been lasting well over 10 years!
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 I know that -- I even had to put them in my basement when I finished it, in case it flooded -- but I honestly do not see one in either of the bathrooms. My neighbor looked in her bathroom, and saw it right above the vanity. I'll wait for another neighbor to confirm (he has a corner unit like ours), but I wouldn't be surprised if the builder F'd up and the inspector missed it. If that's the case, would calling the inspector now actually fix anything? I doubt it... One word of advice... NEVER HAVE YOUR SUMP PUMP PLUGGED INTO A GFCI... That is the one thing where all code mandates NOT using a GFCI even though the sump is all around water. The reason is that if it trips for even the slighest reason, you will have a flooded basement if you don't catch it has been faulted.
Fezmid Posted May 17, 2009 Author Posted May 17, 2009 One word of advice... NEVER HAVE YOUR SUMP PUMP PLUGGED INTO A GFCI... That is the one thing where all code mandates NOT using a GFCI even though the sump is all around water. The reason is that if it trips for even the slighest reason, you will have a flooded basement if you don't catch it has been faulted. Good point! I should check if I actually did that or not.... (not that our sump pump has ever had to do anything in the 7 years we've lived here). We have romex wiring in the house. As for the GFCI -- I found that both upstairs bathrooms are connected to the same circuit as the first floor bathroom, and that one has a GFCI. Seems kinda lame to me, but at least it's code. One of my neighbors also said that in his experience, the builder used cheap switches and he's already had to replace a few of them in the house, so I'm leaning towards that being the problem.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Good point! I should check if I actually did that or not.... (not that our sump pump has ever had to do anything in the 7 years we've lived here). We have romex wiring in the house. As for the GFCI -- I found that both upstairs bathrooms are connected to the same circuit as the first floor bathroom, and that one has a GFCI. Seems kinda lame to me, but at least it's code. One of my neighbors also said that in his experience, the builder used cheap switches and he's already had to replace a few of them in the house, so I'm leaning towards that being the problem. (Blue above): Is that the circuit where you are having the problem? I forget what you said. Have you checked the connection on the switch... You can test the switch by taking it off and putting a continuity tester to check that it is working okay. If that is not the problem, you could have broken wire (that is why I asked what kind of wire do you have) that just isn't going to ground. If you want to test that circuit... You can do it without the switch... Take the switch lead and twist them together (bypassing the switch... OF COURSE WORK WITH THE POWER/CIRCUIT OFF!! And when everything is safely put together sans the switch you suspect is bad... Throw the power on and if there is no problem with the circuit... Your fixture should go on. (of course without tripping anything). Also: Do you have mice? That is why conduit rules, and of course the conduit also being the ground... Everything is mechanically protected. You can also replace all the wiring in your house at a later date without tearing walls apart. It is not a dimmer or anything like that... Sometimes they go bad more often. Usually a single pole switch doesn't go bad for a long, LONG time... But, of course they do at times. Again... Check your connections first!
Nanker Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Cheapest and quickest thing to do is swap out the switch. $1.98 or less at Lowes. New switch in - light works - problem solved. New switch in - light still doesn't work - replace the light. Cost of the project just went up. Bathroom and kitchen counter level outlets must be GFI protected - by national code. In my house the only GFI was on a plug in the garage. All three bathrooms, the kitchen and the outside receptacles were on the same line - on the load side of that one GFI receptacle. A GFI can be in the circuit breaker at the service box, or in a receptacle. It's more conveniently located in a receptacle because when it trips you don't have to walk to the basement or wherever the service is located to reset it. Turn off the power at the service box for the circuit before you change the switch. You'll need a flat head screw driver, a pair of needle nose pliers, a roll of electrician's tape and the new switch. It'll take 5 minutes.
Fezmid Posted May 17, 2009 Author Posted May 17, 2009 (Blue above): Is that the circuit where you are having the problem? I forget what you said. No, the GFI was sort of a cursory issue -- since I never noticed I didn't have GFI outlets in the bathroom before having this problem. I was just trying to figure out if the builder screwed up or not Based on the labeling on the circuit breaker, it looks like we have two circuits labeled as "bathroom" -- so I'm guessing one is for the lights/fans, one is for the outlets. I haven't confirmed that yet, but regardless, that doesn't seem to be the problem. Have you checked the connection on the switch... You can test the switch by taking it off and putting a continuity tester to check that it is working okay. If that is not the problem, you could have broken wire (that is why I asked what kind of wire do you have) that just isn't going to ground. Not yet -- I probably be able to mess with that until tomorrow night since I'm just going to run down to the store and get another switch. Do you have mice? That is why conduit rules, and of course the conduit also being the ground... Everything is mechanically protected. You can also replace all the wiring in your house at a later date without tearing walls apart. No mice that I know of. If we did, the two cats would probably go crazy. A field mouse snuck into the house when houses were being built across the street -- we found it dead on the kitchen floor after our cats got to it. Thanks for the help everyone - I'll be trying to fix it today or tomorrow, so if you don't hear from me anymore, it's because I electrocuted myself.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Cheapest and quickest thing to do is swap out the switch. $1.98 or less at Lowes. New switch in - light works - problem solved. New switch in - light still doesn't work - replace the light. Cost of the project just went up. Bathroom and kitchen counter level outlets must be GFI protected - by national code. In my house the only GFI was on a plug in the garage. All three bathrooms, the kitchen and the outside receptacles were on the same line - on the load side of that one GFI receptacle. A GFI can be in the circuit breaker at the service box, or in a receptacle. It's more conveniently located in a receptacle because when it trips you don't have to walk to the basement or wherever the service is located to reset it. Turn off the power at the service box for the circuit before you change the switch. You'll need a flat head screw driver, a pair of needle nose pliers, a roll of electrician's tape and the new switch. It'll take 5 minutes. The NEC is less strict... When in doubt, do things to the Chicago Electrical code (it is actually simpler too)!
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 No mice that I know of. If we did, the two cats would probably go crazy. A field mouse snuck into the house when houses were being built across the street -- we found it dead on the kitchen floor after our cats got to it. Thanks for the help everyone - I'll be trying to fix it today or tomorrow, so if you don't hear from me anymore, it's because I electrocuted myself. Don't electrocute yourself! I got a nice little "nick" on on of the leads to my multimeter being lazy! If you work at night, use a light... That is on another circuit! Even with a cat... Mice in the walls can wreck havoc with romex... You may not even see the cat go crazy!
stuckincincy Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Craftsman Digital Multimeter with AC Voltage Detector (I've got two of these for work) Or have your wife put her thumb in the socket and you turn on the switch. A GFCI outlet tester is a handy thing to have...it also tests non-GFCI outlets: http://www.acehardware.com/sm-sperry-gfci-...pi-2665480.html As previously mentioned, a continuity tester is also useful: http://books.google.com/books?id=eOzXMLbk0...lt&resnum=6
Beerball Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 As previously mentioned, a continuity tester is also useful Dick Jauron is a wonderful continuity tester.
stuckincincy Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Dick Jauron is a wonderful continuity tester. When he connects, he glows!
Wacka Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Was gone for the weekend, so didn't reply sooner. Could be in the breaker box. My washer/dryer stopped working and I head and saw a flash from the circuit box area. The circuit breaker wasn't tripped., and toggling it back and forth didn't put them back on. I called maintenance (I live in an apartment) and they looked in the box. The wire from the washer,dryer breaker had come loos over the years (about 20) and had shorted out the ground bus bar. The plastic brackets that it was screwed on by had melted. The rest of the circuits had worked fine. They said I was lucky I didn't have a fire. My father had an uncle that would test for live wires while remodeling by wetting his fingers , touching bare end and say "Yep, that one's live!"
Assquatch Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Was gone for the weekend, so didn't reply sooner. Could be in the breaker box. My washer/dryer stopped working and I head and saw a flash from the circuit box area. The circuit breaker wasn't tripped., and toggling it back and forth didn't put them back on. I called maintenance (I live in an apartment) and they looked in the box. The wire from the washer,dryer breaker had come loos over the years (about 20) and had shorted out the ground bus bar. The plastic brackets that it was screwed on by had melted. The rest of the circuits had worked fine. They said I was lucky I didn't have a fire. My father had an uncle that would test for live wires while remodeling by wetting his fingers , touching bare end and say "Yep, that one's live!"
stuckincincy Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Was gone for the weekend, so didn't reply sooner. Could be in the breaker box. My washer/dryer stopped working and I head and saw a flash from the circuit box area. The circuit breaker wasn't tripped., and toggling it back and forth didn't put them back on. I called maintenance (I live in an apartment) and they looked in the box. The wire from the washer,dryer breaker had come loos over the years (about 20) and had shorted out the ground bus bar. The plastic brackets that it was screwed on by had melted. The rest of the circuits had worked fine. They said I was lucky I didn't have a fire. My father had an uncle that would test for live wires while remodeling by wetting his fingers , touching bare end and say "Yep, that one's live!" I wouldn't think that a breaker circuit would be exclusively devoted to just one bathroom fixture...
Wacka Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Far as I know, he didn't go that way. Died many years ago an old man.
mead107 Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Switch -- if you do not have GFI outlets you should put them in . ZAP
Recommended Posts