Acantha Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Stopped at a 7-11 to get something to drink. I didn't have any cash, so I tried the ATM but it was broken. So fine, I'm going to pay for my 89 cent drink with my credit card. I don't sign the back of my card, instead I write SEE ID across the back. So the girl looks at my card, then turns back to me. I hold out my ID, but instead of looking at it she sets it down and hands me a pen. The rest goes like this: Her: You have to sign the card Me: No Her: (looking a little confused) We can't accept the card unless it's signed Me: Why??? Her: (pointing to a sign on the counter) I can't ring you up unless the card is signed. Do you want to use cash? Me: Love to, but your ATM is broken. Her: Well, you have to sign the card Me: If I stole this card, and signed it now, what difference would that make? It would only assure that the signatures were spot on. Look, I'm showing you my ID with picture, name AND signature on it. Her: We can't accept the card unless it's signed Me: Nevermind Normally I'm pretty mellow. It's very rare that I don't just brush things off, even if it may take a minute or two. But man, this just killed me. It's been like 3 hours and I'm still aggravated over it! Luckily, I hit the wine shop tonight!
Guest three3 Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 you live in Honolulu and you are complaining about life to Buffalonians
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Why don't you sign your card? Why not just print your name? The store will be forced to check ID.
Acantha Posted May 16, 2009 Author Posted May 16, 2009 Why don't you sign your card? Because if someone steals my card, I don't want them to have the opportunity to practice forging my signature. Now I will admit, I don't think anyone has ever compared my signature on the receipt to my ID card, but at least they are matching up names and picture that way. Why not just print your name? The store will be forced to check ID. My name is printed on the front, why print it on the back too? Not sure how that would have played in this situation. She did say I had to "sign" the card, so I'm not sure if printed would have satisfied the requirement. Whether I agree with the rule or not is one thing (I obviously do not), but the fact that she thought me signing the card right there was a solution to the problem is what drove me nuts.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Because if someone steals my card, I don't want them to have the opportunity to practice forging my signature. Now I will admit, I don't think anyone has ever compared my signature on the receipt to my ID card, but at least they are matching up names and picture that way. My name is printed on the front, why print it on the back too? Not sure how that would have played in this situation. She did say I had to "sign" the card, so I'm not sure if printed would have satisfied the requirement. Whether I agree with the rule or not is one thing (I obviously do not), but the fact that she thought me signing the card right there was a solution to the problem is what drove me nuts. I see. I would think that having and unsigned card is even more dangerous... Then they can sign anything, no need to practice at forgery... just cram it in there right over your "see id." And anyway... Most purchases under 20-25 bucks don't need a signature, depending on the store/establishment.
Acantha Posted May 16, 2009 Author Posted May 16, 2009 I see. I would think that having and unsigned card is even more dangerous... Then they can sign anything, no need to practice at forgery... just cram it in there right over your "see id." And anyway... Most purchases under 20-25 bucks don't need a signature, depending on the store/establishment. Couldn't they write over my printed name just as easily as my see id? Yes, I know about the 25 dollar rule, but if someone stole my card I think I'd be a little surprised if they only used it for items under 25.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Couldn't they write over my printed name just as easily as my see id? Yes, I know about the 25 dollar rule, but if someone stole my card I think I'd be a little surprised if they only used it for items under 25. They would just hit the gas pumps that are "pay at the pump"... Most of them don't require your zip code to be entered. Speaking of zip codes, that sems to be a pretty good way to aid in verifying IMO.
Just Jack Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Under the "Rules For Visa Merchants" guide (it's online, you can download it) using 'See ID' is not acceptable. Here's the section.... “See ID” Some customers write “See ID” or “Ask for ID” in the signature panel, thinking that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals don’t take the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures—they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting. “See ID” or “Ask for ID” is not a valid substitute for a signature. The customer must sign the card in your presence, as stated above. So she was just following the rules.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Under the "Rules For Visa Merchants" guide (it's online, you can download it) using 'See ID' is not acceptable. Here's the section.... “See ID” Some customers write “See ID” or “Ask for ID” in the signature panel, thinking that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals don’t take the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures—they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting. “See ID” or “Ask for ID” is not a valid substitute for a signature. The customer must sign the card in your presence, as stated above. So she was just following the rules. I guess the mechant wasn't so "stupid" afterall! Good find Jack.
PushthePile Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Aggravatingly annoying people! Sign the freaking card and get your gatorade! Instead you would rather hold up the line and crucify some teenage girl because you think you have outsmarted everyone. Sorry Faustas, you might be a great guy but I can't stand this kind of crap when I'm in line. I can't stand it if I'm not in line yet and watching someone hassle the kid behind the counter. You aren't any safer walking around with an unsigned card and some would argue it's worse. Do yourself a favor and don't lose the card.
rockpile Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 The important question is: Did you enjoy your Slurpee? Stopped at a 7-11 to get something to drink. I didn't have any cash, so I tried the ATM but it was broken. So fine, I'm going to pay for my 89 cent drink with my credit card. I don't sign the back of my card, instead I write SEE ID across the back. So the girl looks at my card, then turns back to me. I hold out my ID, but instead of looking at it she sets it down and hands me a pen. The rest goes like this: Her: You have to sign the card Me: No Her: (looking a little confused) We can't accept the card unless it's signed Me: Why??? Her: (pointing to a sign on the counter) I can't ring you up unless the card is signed. Do you want to use cash? Me: Love to, but your ATM is broken. Her: Well, you have to sign the card Me: If I stole this card, and signed it now, what difference would that make? It would only assure that the signatures were spot on. Look, I'm showing you my ID with picture, name AND signature on it. Her: We can't accept the card unless it's signed Me: Nevermind Normally I'm pretty mellow. It's very rare that I don't just brush things off, even if it may take a minute or two. But man, this just killed me. It's been like 3 hours and I'm still aggravated over it! Luckily, I hit the wine shop tonight!
KD in CA Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Aggravatingly annoying people! Sign the freaking card and get your gatorade! Instead you would rather hold up the line and crucify some teenage girl because you think you have outsmarted everyone. Sorry Faustas, you might be a great guy but I can't stand this kind of crap when I'm in line. I can't stand it if I'm not in line yet and watching someone hassle the kid behind the counter. You aren't any safer walking around with an unsigned card and some would argue it's worse. Do yourself a favor and don't lose the card. +1 Aggravatingly annoying people indeed.
Just Jack Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 I guess the mechant wasn't so "stupid" afterall! Good find Jack. I got it a couple years ago when a hotel insisted making a copy of my drivers license was required for them to accept my credit card. According to the Visa guide, as long as the card is accepted when swiped, that is all that is required, no id needed.
BuffaloBill Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Because if someone steals my card, I don't want them to have the opportunity to practice forging my signature. Now I will admit, I don't think anyone has ever compared my signature on the receipt to my ID card, but at least they are matching up names and picture that way. My name is printed on the front, why print it on the back too? Not sure how that would have played in this situation. She did say I had to "sign" the card, so I'm not sure if printed would have satisfied the requirement. Whether I agree with the rule or not is one thing (I obviously do not), but the fact that she thought me signing the card right there was a solution to the problem is what drove me nuts. No need to defend yourself ... you just had the misfortune of interaction with a young woman who unfortunately did not have a clue. I hope for her sake she is beautiful.
MarkAF43 Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 No need to defend yourself ... you just had the misfortune of interaction with a young woman who unfortunately did not have a clue. I hope for her sake she is beautiful. as Jack stated above..... Under the "Rules For Visa Merchants" guide (it's online, you can download it) using 'See ID' is not acceptable. Here's the section.... “See ID” Some customers write “See ID” or “Ask for ID” in the signature panel, thinking that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals don’t take the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures—they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting. “See ID” or “Ask for ID” is not a valid substitute for a signature. The customer must sign the card in your presence, as stated above. So she was just following the rules.
Lurker Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 I see. I would think that having and unsigned card is even more dangerous... It certainly is...for the merchant. Which makes the title of this thread all the funnier...
Acantha Posted May 16, 2009 Author Posted May 16, 2009 Couple of things: 1. I didn't "crucify the girl" behind the counter. The conversation went just like I wrote. I was polite about it, even though I was aggravated. 2. No one in line behind me 3. The "don't lose your card crowd", hey sh-- happens. Even sh-- that doesn't involve "losing", but things being stolen. It's like saying don't wear your seat belt and just don't get hit. 3. On to the rule. I actually DID read the sign she pointed to on the counter which explained the rule that Jack linked to. Though on the sign it only said they were not acceptable without signature. And I said that the rule was one thing, and the fact that she wanted me to just sign the card right there and everything was fine was another. And I think VISA saying to have the customer do that with no further explanation is just as bad as what the girl was doing. (maybe there's more to it on the download) Now, the link that Lurker posted adds something to that that makes it more acceptable. If they ask for your government ID so they can match up the signatures, that would work. So whether I was right to get annoyed with this girl or not (apparently I wasn't as it was less her stupidity than VISA's) , I still think it's a bad rule. I get my ID matched to my card FAR more often than either I used to, or I see others getting checked. There's been more than a few times that I've been with multiple people paying together and they checked my ID and no one elses just because I had it written there. In fact, that's why I started doing it, because a friend of mine had it and that happened to him. Just because someone stealing a card may not try to take the time to learn my signature (and I disagree with that too....I'm not saying someone is going to sit at home practicing for a week. It would take 30 seconds to see how I sign and then get it as close as they are quickly able), doesn't mean there isn't a reason to use it as a precaution. EDIT: Just started reading more into that link Lurker. I think number 3 is nuts (obviously). Why would you not want them to make sure you're supposed to be using the card? It takes 5 seconds. I understand your point Jack, there's no reason for someone to have to make a copy of anything. I wouldn't want copies of my ID laying around either. But just checking ID's? I don't get it. My credit score is as perfect as I can get it, and I've heard too many horror stories about credit getting jacked up (not to mention the unbelievable hassle of trying to get everything sorted out) because of stolen cards. Apparently I'm overly cautious.
Rubes Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Wait, I'm confused. Who was the annoyingly stupid person in this story?
Acantha Posted May 16, 2009 Author Posted May 16, 2009 Wait, I'm confused. Who was the annoyingly stupid person in this story? What's to be confused about? It was quite obviously me. I've never said that I wasn't part of the "majority".
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