TimGraham Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 My first question for you Tim, If given the same amount of play time at the starting RB position this coming up season is it your belief that Marshawn Lynch would exceed Freddie Jackson in all purpose yardage? (excluding any special teams) One of the reasons I ask you this is we may be able to compare them for a few games this season without injury being a contributing factor and In my opinion Fred Jackson could be a more productive all purpose back than Marshawn. Thanks Oh, and Tim, you do realize I may come back and tease you if you select Marshawn and Action Jackson blows Marshawn out of the water. Fine. That was for the original question. But you keep using the term all-purpose yards over and over in giving your analysis. You need to learn the terms. If you mean yards from scrimmage, then say yards from scrimmage. I don't think you're a very savvy football observer based on your theory Fred Jackson is better than Marshawn Lynch. Your lack of understanding the stats only underscores my initial impression. I was trying to be nice, but I've lost patience. I'm moving on to other things now.
Guest dog14787 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Fine. That was for the original question. But you keep using the term all-purpose yards over and over in giving your analysis. You need to learn the terms. If you mean yards from scrimmage, then say yards from scrimmage. I don't think you're a very savvy football observer based on your theory Fred Jackson is better than Marshawn Lynch. Your lack of understanding the stats only underscores my initial impression. I was trying to be nice, but I've lost patience. I'm moving on to other things now. I was clear in my posts and excuse me for not having all the football terminology down. I didn't realize that was a criteria for asking you a question. There was nothing nice about your response, it was rude and I'm also done.
angrygnome Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Tim, With a new DL coach in Bob Sanders working with John McCargo, do you think we will see him get in more games in 2009?
TimGraham Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Tim, With a new DL coach in Bob Sanders working with John McCargo, do you think we will see him get in more games in 2009? It can't hurt. McCargo's relationship with Bill Kollar was beyond repair. A fresh face and a new set of ideas very well could stimulate McCargo into actually giving a damn for once.
Guest dog14787 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 To focus on this, I'd be interested to know how many of Jackson's runs were on third-and-long draw plays. A few years back, Shaud Williams had a great ypc average ... almost entirely because of seven-yard runs on third-and-10. Jackson filled that role on last year's team, while Lynch was more likely to be in the game on a short-yardage play. I realize there are many variables involved with situational stats and maybe putting a strong emphasis on 3rd downs could be a bit deceiving. So here are situational comparisons on all 4 downs from the 08 season for Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson. Fred Jackson: 1st, Avg 4.4 yards 2nd,Avg 4.4 yards 3rd, Avg 4.8 yards 4th, Avg .05 yards per carry Marshawn Lynch 1st, Avg 4.5 yards 2nd, Avg 3.6 yards 3rd, Avg 3.6 yards 4th, Avg 0.0 yards per carry
TimGraham Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I realize there are many variables involved with situational stats and maybe putting a strong emphasis on 3rd downs could be a bit deceiving. So here are situational comparisons on all 4 downs from the 08 season for Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson. Fred Jackson: 1st, Avg 4.4 yards 2nd,Avg 4.4 yards 3rd, Avg 4.8 yards 4th, Avg .05 yards per carry Marshawn Lynch 1st, Avg 4.5 yards 2nd, Avg 3.6 yards 3rd, Avg 3.6 yards 4th, Avg 0.0 yards per carry Fred Jackson made 11 first downs with 130 touches, Marshawn Lynch made 14 first downs with 250 touches.(almost double) I have no idea if your per-down stats are accurate, but your first downs aren't close. Fred Jackson had 34 rushing first downs last year. Lynch had 54.
Guest dog14787 Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I have no idea if your per-down stats are accurate, but your first downs aren't close. Fred Jackson had 34 rushing first downs last year. Lynch had 54. Marsahwn Lynch situational stats http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8266/s...D9Xz_pYuMX.uLYF Fred Jackson situational stats http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8063/s...D9Xz_pYuMX.uLYF It was receiving first downs ( my error) that will teach me to mess with the likes of you without having my stat facts correct. Since were speaking again though Tim, and since my touch count is correct. Based on your added(accurate) info, isn't it safe to say to say Jackson could possibly exceed the first down numbers of Marshawn if given the opportunity? The numbers sure suggests that he can. I don't get it, Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that we could have two, maybe even three starting caliber RB's going into the 09 season. Each presenting there own unique set of problems for opposing defenses. Can Fred run as good as Marshawn, no, probably not, but he can catch better and it all moves the chains. Fred Jackson is a Cinderella story in the making, its not a bad thing if Freddie is good, he's a Bill just like Marshawn is, So come on guys, where is the love for Freddie Jackson?(sorry to badger you Tim, I'll try to make sure it doesn't happen again)
Dan III Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 A few years back, Shaud Williams had a great ypc average ... almost entirely because of seven-yard runs on third-and-10. Careful, Lori...them be fightin' words to Simon.
Dan Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Marsahwn Lynch situational stats http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8266/s...D9Xz_pYuMX.uLYF Fred Jackson situational stats http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8063/s...D9Xz_pYuMX.uLYF It was receiving first downs ( my error) that will teach me to mess with the likes of you without having my stat facts correct. Since were speaking again though Tim, and since my touch count is correct. Based on your added(accurate) info, isn't it safe to say to say Jackson could possibly exceed the first down numbers of Marshawn if given the opportunity? The numbers sure suggests that he can. I don't get it, Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that we could have two, maybe even three starting caliber RB's going into the 09 season. Each presenting there own unique set of problems for opposing defenses. Can Fred run as good as Marshawn, no, probably not, but he can catch better and it all moves the chains. Fred Jackson is a Cinderella story in the making, its not a bad thing if Freddie is good, he's a Bill just like Marshawn is, So come on guys, where is the love for Freddie Jackson?(sorry to badger you Tim, I'll try to make sure it doesn't happen again) There's plenty of love for Fred Jackson on this board. In fact, I can't readily recall anyone that's down on the guy. However, to suggest that he's the best RB on the team is a little more than love, it's borderline infatuation. I would suggest you're making the same mistake in interpreting the stats that many people make when they conclude that the backup QB should replace the starter after 1 or 2 good games. There's a reason some players are backups and some are starters. It's not necessarily who's better. But, more of a case of players filling the role they're being asked to fill. I would say we're fortunate to have a backup as capable as Jackson.
Guest dog14787 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 There's plenty of love for Fred Jackson on this board. In fact, I can't readily recall anyone that's down on the guy. However, to suggest that he's the best RB on the team is a little more than love, it's borderline infatuation. I would suggest you're making the same mistake in interpreting the stats that many people make when they conclude that the backup QB should replace the starter after 1 or 2 good games. There's a reason some players are backups and some are starters. It's not necessarily who's better. But, more of a case of players filling the role they're being asked to fill. I would say we're fortunate to have a backup as capable as Jackson. Marshawn Lynch had 47 receptions for 300 yards last season and Fred Jackson had 37 receptions for 317 yards My original assumption was that Fred Jackson could be a better all purpose back based on both his rushing and receiving capabilities combined and his situational and career stats suggests as much. If Trent Edwards starts dispersing the ball efficiently like say a Tom Brady, in my opinion its very possibly Fred Jackson will be a better fit for the no huddle offense because of the mismatches he would create in the passing game. Besides, its real hard to be the best RB for the Buffalo Bills when you are serving a 3 game suspension don't you think?
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Jackson is a better reciever, and has far better vision, in my opinion. This guy knows how to run to space. Lynch is an excellent power back, but his game is limited. I love the fact that we have both backs, and each have their roll to fill. If I have to pick one, its Jackson, with little hesitation...but I'm a big fan of both players all the way.
Guest dog14787 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Jackson is a better reciever, and has far better vision, in my opinion. This guy knows how to run to space. Lynch is an excellent power back, but his game is limited. I love the fact that we have both backs, and each have their roll to fill. If I have to pick one, its Jackson, with little hesitation...but I'm a big fan of both players all the way. You do realize by posting something like this you join me in the ranks of the Unsavvy Football Observer Association don't you? Our non profit organization is aimed at giving the under worked and under appreciated football players of America a voice so they can be heard. The U.F.O.A. Needs your help so join us now in our fight to save the Freddie Jackson's, because a Pro athlete is a terrible thing to waste.
Conch Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 It can't hurt. McCargo's relationship with Bill Kollar was beyond repair. A fresh face and a new set of ideas very well could stimulate McCargo into actually giving a damn for once. It can't hurt. McCargo's relationship with Bill Kollar was beyond repair. A fresh face and a new set of ideas very well could stimulate McCargo into actually giving a damn for once. What are you trying to say Tim?
TimGraham Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 You do realize by posting something like this you join me in the ranks of the Unsavvy Football Observer Association don't you? Our non profit organization is aimed at giving the under worked and under appreciated football players of America a voice so they can be heard. The U.F.O.A. Needs your help so join us now in our fight to save the Freddie Jackson's, because a Pro athlete is a terrible thing to waste. Nope, still a club of one. Big difference between a guy saying he prefers Jackson to Lynch and another saying there is zero proof Lynch is better than Jackson. I'll respect a guy's opinion when he spells it out as just that and doesn't promote his attraction as irrefutable fact.
JoeF Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Hi Tim, I was wondering if you had any information on draft pick signings. With an early training camp date and no draftees currently under contract -- getting a tad bit concerned about hold outs -- particularly when we are expecting the top 5 Bills picks or so to make immediate contributions.
TimGraham Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Hi Tim, I was wondering if you had any information on draft pick signings. With an early training camp date and no draftees currently under contract -- getting a tad bit concerned about hold outs -- particularly when we are expecting the top 5 Bills picks or so to make immediate contributions. All is quiet right now, but no need to get alarmed yet. Contract terms become pretty obvious as players around the league sign, and the Bills don't have any landmark players (No. 1 overall pick, top-five pick, first quarterback taken, etc.). I don't foresee any holdouts in this group.
Guest dog14787 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Nope, still a club of one. Big difference between a guy saying he prefers Jackson to Lynch and another saying there is zero proof Lynch is better than Jackson. I'll respect a guy's opinion when he spells it out as just that and doesn't promote his attraction as irrefutable fact. Funny, I can't seem to find that posted anywhere Tim, but hey, your the expert and this is your thread.
Lori Posted July 2, 2009 Author Posted July 2, 2009 Funny, I can't seem to find that posted anywhere Tim, but hey, your the expert and this is your thread. Oddly, I found it without too much trouble. So all the talk or hype about Lynch being a better RB than Jackson has zero proof to back it up and in fact the stats are pointing in the other direction and thats without even touching on Marshawn's character issues. What good does Marshawn do us when he is standing on the sidelines?
qbtoleeforthetd Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Oddly, I found it without too much trouble. boom roasted
Guest dog14787 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Nope, still a club of one. Big difference between a guy saying he prefers Jackson to Lynch and another saying there is zero proof Lynch is better than Jackson. I'll respect a guy's opinion when he spells it out as just that and doesn't promote his attraction as irrefutable fact. Yes, I posted it ( couldn't find it earlier) God forbid I would post something like that though, wanting proof, geeesh, what was I thinking. Ummm, maybe that nobody can explain why Lynch can't seem to get short yardage first downs when we need them, or get a 100 yard game when we need it. Or why Fred Jacksons situational stat Avgs are almost all higher than Lynchs or if you project Jacksons increase in carries to match Marshawns, Jacksons production would be higher. Especially yards from scrimmage. (see, I'm learning) Big bad boone gave a good description of Lynch and Jackson's capabilities and I couldn't have said it any better, Lynch's game is limited, and he's not the only one that feels that way, lots of folks do.
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