Bills bringing in Pisa Tinoisamoa

[WordByrd]

I'm always skeptical about tackle numbers. Teams are free to list as many as they like - I've read that SF is especially generous.

 

London Fletcher used to get batted about here for his totals...saying his tackles were made 5+ yards down field even though the DL couldn't shove a marshmallow out of the way or tackle an angry ping pong ball.

 

Doesn't the NFL take the official stats?

[VOR]

Thats exactly what I was trying to convey. He is a decent player, not great. If he was a difference maker, he would not have been cut simply bc he was undersized. production is production. good players on D can work in any system. PLUS-good players in their 20's do not get cut if they are true difference makers.

 

somebody has to get tackles on that crap for nothing D the rams had.

 

yeah, he is better than ellison, but so what? lot of people we brought in are, doesnt mean the D jumps into the top 10 bc we potentially sign this guy.

 

and i am sticking to my guns-I KNOW most of you have never SEEN this guy play. reading up on peoples stat lines do not make you a player expert.

This is unreal. You've not only never seen him play (obviously you missed the Bills-Rams game last year where he had 6 tackles ), but you've never heard of him. Yet you're still giving us your opinion, based solely on the fact that he was cut.

 

And even if PT were a "difference-maker," that Rams defense is pretty horrible throughout. How much difference do you suppose a "difference-maker" can make all by himself?

[stuckincincy]

Doesn't the NFL take the official stats?

 

AFAIK, they take numbers forwarded by the teams. I could be wrong.

[LynchMob23]

Weird as it may seem, it was pointed out to me not long ago that Ellison actually plays the strong side and Mitchell the weak.

Yeah BB,

He does, but our Will and Sam are reversed, so Kawika is the one that typically handles tight end trail, running into the line, stuff like that and Ellison is our run around blocks and get to the carrier guy. So in the Rams D, Pisa cannot run into the TE and bang every play because physically he couldn't hold up. But in our Defense he would align in the "bubble" off the 3 and the 5 techniques, whereever they line up.

 

For us, Pisa would be able to blitz, cover and stop then run in conjunction with the rest of the team. Other than Poz, I haven't really heard them mention a guy solely responsible for bringing the ballcarrier down.

[The Dean]

AFAIK, they take numbers forwarded by the teams. I could be wrong.

 

 

Either way, a guy who is involved in 100+ tackles (and leads his team) is a force...we can quibble about the exact number of tackles. Those who dissed Fletcher while he was here were stupid, IMO, and I think many would take him back in an instant. The Bills need more guys who get involved and make tackles. Tackles are rarely a bad thing, no matter where they occur, when you consider the alternative.

[stuckincincy]

Either way, a guy who is involved in 100+ tackles (and leads his team) is a force...we can quibble about the exact number of tackles. Those who dissed Fletcher while he was here were stupid, IMO, and I think many would take him back in an instant. The Bills need more guys who get involved and make tackles. Tackles are rarely a bad thing, no matter where they occur, when you consider the alternative.

 

Agree 100% about Fletcher.

[billybob]

Fletcher was not a throw a Olineman away stuff a RB type guy- but he had very good tackles, Ints, FFs, a smattering of sacks and was a good overall pass defender- What killed me was the number of board members who dissed Fletcher but were in love with POZ who was two inches taller but 15lbs lighter, slower, not the pass defender that Fletcher was, and also not a stuff you in the hole, knock the snot out of you, LB- another case of Bills fans making up there own reality- then in a couple years they catch on.

[Reed83HOF]

Either way, a guy who is involved in 100+ tackles (and leads his team) is a force...we can quibble about the exact number of tackles. Those who dissed Fletcher while he was here were stupid, IMO, and I think many would take him back in an instant. The Bills need more guys who get involved and make tackles. Tackles are rarely a bad thing, no matter where they occur, when you consider the alternative.

 

I am kinda sick of hearing about how bad it is to tackle a player 5-10 yds down field and how that player sucks.

 

If the guys in front of the LB are getting man handled and you have an RB running at fullspeed toward you, think of how few hits there are in an NFL season in which an LB stops an RB running at full speed at the point of impact and plants him...not often. Depending on the angle of the hit, where the hits takes place, the stature of the players, and a bunch of other physics/statistics; tackles will not always occur at the point of impact or the backfield. One also needs to take into account that LBs defensive responsiblities. He may be required to stay in his assigned area until a specific point. How many times have we or other fans bitched about a player who went after a ball carrier to make a tackle and then all of a sudden an offensive player comes out of no where and blocks the defensive player who left his area of responsibility. With the assist of the block or broken tackle, the ball carrier makes it to where that defensive player was supposed to be...and no one is there to make a tackle...

 

Deano also makes a great point, would you rather have a tackle occur or not at all...

[Chief D]

I found this on another site but found it very interesting:

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/5/11/...-to-host-pisa-t

 

 

turnovers i think it’s interesting that tinoisamoa seems to have some good numbers in the big-play department. he’s played 84 games, and he’s got 16 turnovers forced, ten sacks, and 25 passes defended. that’s a turnover or big play on the QB once every four games, not bad for a LB of any caliber. ray lewis, long considered the definition of an excellent LB, has a combined 74 big plays in 178 games, or around one every 3 games. lewis averages a PD every other game, tinoisamoa’s average is around one every 3.4 games.

 

8 of pisa’s turnovers – fully half – came in his first year of seven, however, which is worth noting.

 

in comparison (i threw in some names of guys that came in this offseason):

 

pisa: 84 games, 7 INT, 9 FF, 25 PD, 10 sacks

ellison: 42 games, 2 INT, 0 FF, 9 PD, 2 sacks

poz: 19 games, 1 INT, 1 FF, 6 PD, 0 sacks (our LBs blitz a LOT, too)

mitchell: 91 games, 6 INT, 5 FF, 23 PD, 12 sacks

crowell: 65 games, 5 INT, 4 FF, 17 PD, 7 sacks

keiaho: 39 games, 1 INT, 2 FF, 1 PD, .5 sacks

june: 88 games, 12 INT, 3 FF, 24 PD, 1 sack (obviously a coverage lb)

peterson: 135 games, 15 INT, 6 FF, 40 PD, 19.5 sacks

pisa’s stats extrapolated to 135 games (like peterson): 135 games, 12 INT, 15 FF, 41 PD, 16 sacks (quite comparable, all told).

 

just some food for thought. past performance isn’t a guarantee of anything, as we all know (see: aaron schobel, derrick dockery, jason peters), but it IS something to think about. as we’ve seen with players like whitner, not everyone has big-play ability in them. a player can be a strong contributor for a long time without making a huge impact, but i really think that i’d prefer a player that doesn’t have the measurables of someone else but can make the plays (see: jairus byrd, hopefully).

 

also note that ellison’s numbers in this department (not tackling, obviously) are very close to poz’s future numbers if you extrapolate his out.

[thebandit27]

Thats exactly what I was trying to convey. He is a decent player, not great. If he was a difference maker, he would not have been cut simply bc he was undersized. production is production. good players on D can work in any system. PLUS-good players in their 20's do not get cut if they are true difference makers.

 

somebody has to get tackles on that crap for nothing D the rams had.

 

yeah, he is better than ellison, but so what? lot of people we brought in are, doesnt mean the D jumps into the top 10 bc we potentially sign this guy.

 

and i am sticking to my guns-I KNOW most of you have never SEEN this guy play. reading up on peoples stat lines do not make you a player expert.

 

Not that it matters, because I KNOW you've never seen him play, but the defending Defensive Player of the Year was cut twice.

 

Also, here's a quick list of guys that have been cut from an NFL team during their careers: Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, Chad Pennington, Thomas Jones (3 times), Ryant Grant, Terrell Owens, Derrick Mason, Trevor Pryce, James Harrison, Kyle Vanden Bosch, ah, you know what, it's just easier to say that you're wrong.

[Lurker]

Thats exactly what I was trying to convey. He is a decent player, not great. If he was a difference maker, he would not have been cut simply bc he was undersized. production is production. good players on D can work in any system. PLUS-good players in their 20's do not get cut if they are true difference makers.

It's not always a performance issue. More often than not, it's a money issue--PT signed a $24.7 million contract extension after five games of 2006 that locked him up through 2011. This coming season, Tinoisamoa was scheduled to make a base salary of $3.25 million and count $4.25 million against the cap. His release frees up $2.25 million in cap space for the Rams, who IIRC, are cap challenged.

 

Time for a new website, Pisa...

[zazie]

Plus, I always wanted a Samoan on the team! They really have football names, you know?