BillsVet Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Joyer further analysis on Bills OL Joyner's research indicates much of what most people knew already. Fowler and Preston were easily moved back, 12 total times according to Joyner into the backfield. Brad Butler in 112 attempts tied for the division league in being pushed into the backfield. Dan Koppen with 197 attempts and Butler tied in this category. And of course, Peters won 90% of his attempts, although fans quantify by sacks alone to malign him. It's apparent the Bills PR folks demonized him enough. The remaining OL weren't all that great, but Walker and Butler appear to be the starting OT's. They couldn't produce at their former positions, and I'm not seeing how they'll improve at positions they've played sporadically. Either way, interesting research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeAreMarshawn23 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Not going to even bother reading this. KC Joyner is a nerd and this scientific crap does not belong in football. This is the same metrics system that has Losman rated as a top 10 qb 2 years ago, bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Am I to believe that being pushed back into the backfield a whopping SIX times (in the case of Butler) doomed the whole season? I'd like to see some sense of the down-and-distance / game log situation associated with these blocking stats before I give this study much credence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busterramsey Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Not going to even bother reading this. KC Joyner is a nerd and this scientific crap does not belong in football. This is the same metrics system that has Losman rated as a top 10 qb 2 years ago, bogus. The non-scientific response is the line sucked last year and will suck even worse this year with rookies starting, and only Walker returning to his 08 position .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Joyer further analysis on Bills OL Joyner's research indicates much of what most people knew already. Fowler and Preston were easily moved back, 12 total times according to Joyner into the backfield. Brad Butler in 112 attempts tied for the division league in being pushed into the backfield. Dan Koppen with 197 attempts and Butler tied in this category. And of course, Peters won 90% of his attempts, although fans quantify by sacks alone to malign him. It's apparent the Bills PR folks demonized him enough. The remaining OL weren't all that great, but Walker and Butler appear to be the starting OT's. They couldn't produce at their former positions, and I'm not seeing how they'll improve at positions they've played sporadically. Either way, interesting research. You are misreading the information. Butler was pushed into the backfield 6 times, not 112. Walker allowed 7 in to the backfield (leading the division). The 112 represents how many times he was at the point of attack. Interesting point of note is when Butler was at the POA, the team averaged 5.2 yds (2nd on the team behind Peters). On the other hand when Walker was at the POA, the team only averaged 4.1 yds. If the team brings in Levi Jones, I would almost anticipate Butler taking the Right Tackle position and Walker moving to the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 We may want to consider trading for that Peters guy. He looks pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Walker will be fine. This really sucks for those that claimed IQ was a major upgrade over Fowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB Fan 4 LIFE Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Here are my grades: 08 O-Line: B 09 O-Line: C- 09 Frnt Offc: F- ... classified as having mental disabilities, and currently commuting via a short bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Not going to even bother reading this. KC Joyner is a nerd and this scientific crap does not belong in football. This is the same metrics system that has Losman rated as a top 10 qb 2 years ago, bogus. Really? That must be exactly why Bill B. has his friend working on probabilities, percentages and trends of opponents via statistics before, during, and after games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 I have yet to see an upgrade. Complain as you will about Peters, but he was ahead of someone last year. We still have porky pig at right tackle. Butler has shown very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB Fan 4 LIFE Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 We may want to consider trading for that Peters guy. He looks pretty good. No doubt. I wonder if Philly would take two rookie interior linemen for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 No doubt. I wonder if Philly would take two rookie interior linemen for him? Or one rookie lineman and some late round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Not going to even bother reading this. KC Joyner is a nerd and this scientific crap does not belong in football. This is the same metrics system that has Losman rated as a top 10 qb 2 years ago, bogus. Sure, why not. QB rating is the same as KC Joyner's research. You are misreading the information. Butler was pushed into the backfield 6 times, not 112. Walker allowed 7 in to the backfield (leading the division). The 112 represents how many times he was at the point of attack. Interesting point of note is when Butler was at the POA, the team averaged 5.2 yds (2nd on the team behind Peters). On the other hand when Walker was at the POA, the team only averaged 4.1 yds. If the team brings in Levi Jones, I would almost anticipate Butler taking the Right Tackle position and Walker moving to the bench. I said in 112 attempts, not 112 losses at the point of attack. Being pushed into the backfield is the worst thing that could happen to an OL. Losing in their blocking assignment is a step up. Hence, Butler's ratings in the seventies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock'em Sock'em Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Or one rookie lineman and some late round picks. Maybe they would take Wood, Nelson, and $8M per year to go sign some other FAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB Fan 4 LIFE Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Maybe they would take Wood, Nelson, and $8M per year to go sign some other FAs. I'm not sure I even know is being said here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 You are misreading the information. Butler was pushed into the backfield 6 times, not 112. Walker allowed 7 in to the backfield (leading the division). The 112 represents how many times he was at the point of attack. Interesting point of note is when Butler was at the POA, the team averaged 5.2 yds (2nd on the team behind Peters). On the other hand when Walker was at the POA, the team only averaged 4.1 yds. If the team brings in Levi Jones, I would almost anticipate Butler taking the Right Tackle position and Walker moving to the bench. Actually you were the one that misread the information, unless you just typed something wrong. "Getting pushed into the backfield" and "allowing a runner to get hit in the backfield" are two different things and two different metrics in his system. Butler was "pushed into the backfield" six times but Graham didn't list how many times his man hit a ballcarrier in the backfield. Walker's man hit the ballcarrier in the backfield seven times, but Graham didn't list how many times he was pushed back. For example, up top, he says, "Rookie left tackle Jake Long was defeated only five times at the point of attack, was pushed into the backfield only once and allowed two backfield penetrations." Three different metrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 And of course, Peters won 90% of his attempts, although fans quantify by sacks alone to malign him. It's apparent the Bills PR folks demonized him enough. Did they? I don't remember them as much as commenting on Peters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Did they? I don't remember them as much as commenting on Peters... Chris Brown has been subtly making hints that Buffalo's unknown offer was fair enough and Peters was unreasonable. If this board is an indication of fans' opinions, I think it's safe to say plenty of people began hating him last summer when Buffalo flat out refused to renegotiate. It was downhill from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Chris Brown has been subtly making hints that Buffalo's unknown offer was fair enough and Peters was unreasonable. If this board is an indication of fans' opinions, I think it's safe to say plenty of people began hating him last summer when Buffalo flat out refused to renegotiate. It was downhill from there. Russ Brandon point blank said they offered Peters a contract that would make him the highest paid Bills player ever. That doesnt mean they offered him the amount he was looking for. a 4 year $40 million extension would have made him the highest paid ever, the Eagles gave him a 4 year $53 million extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Russ Brandon point blank said they offered Peters a contract that would make him the highest paid Bills player ever. That doesnt mean they offered him the amount he was looking for. a 4 year $40 million extension would have made him the highest paid ever, the Eagles gave him a 4 year $53 million extension. Hey...don't let facts get in the way of a 'feel good' argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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