nucci Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Yep. The year he was promoted from RT to LT. I guess we can assume you also would have no problem of not getting a raise after being promoted. Yep, me getting a promotion is so comparable to a multi-millionaire athlete. Excellent comparison. I have a question. Is it considered a promotion moving from C to G or G to C? So you would have no problem with Walker and Butler holding out for new contracts since they were both promoted?
bourbonboy Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 the point is to predict how this year's OL will be different from last years OL. I do not have a problem with that. My problem is with automatically assuming this OL will be better. In order to make that assumption, one has to believe Peters play will continue to deteriorate. ?? We're not communicating here. We can debate the other positions (your other points are valid), but Peters play this year has nothing to do with it! The question is "will this year's line be better"? Last year is history, and Peters is not on this years line, so I frankly don't care if he pancakes the entire DL on every play and is voted league MVP - it has no impact on the Bills line of this year, and it's comparison to our pitiful OL of last year.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 My problem is with automatically assuming this OL will be better. In order to make that assumption, one has to believe Peters play will continue to deteriorate. Not at all...what does Peters have to do with this year's offensive line?
SteamRoller67 Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Apparently you missed the part where Peters wanted to be "rewarded" the year before, after 2007. You know, the year where he was pretty damn good. The year he was elected as an ALL-PRO. The year the Bills organization essentially told him to off. And can we assume if you were in a similar position, your attitude would be "perky"? HE HAD A CONTRACT .....this isn't like Joe Blow working at Wegman's. 3 years left on the deal, he was a millionaire. You can't compare average working people to NFL linemen. If it were 1960, I'd be OK with comparing the two.
Cynical Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 HE HAD A CONTRACT .....this isn't like Joe Blow working at Wegman's. I hate to burst your bubble, but the majority of the people working in America are working under a "contract". Yes, even Joe Blow at Wegmans. Did you even bother reading those papers you signed when you got hired? You might be surprised at what they say. 3 years left on the deal, he was a millionaire.You can't compare average working people to NFL linemen. If it were 1960, I'd be OK with comparing the two. I see. He's a millionaire. That makes it "different". Apparently millionaires do not work in environments that may cause them to have responsibilities that are different from one position to another.
Cynical Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 ?? We're not communicating here. We can debate the other positions (your other points are valid), but Peters play this year has nothing to do with it! The question is "will this year's line be better"? Last year is history, and Peters is not on this years line, so I frankly don't care if he pancakes the entire DL on every play and is voted league MVP - it has no impact on the Bills line of this year, and it's comparison to our pitiful OL of last year. Okay. In comparing last years line to this year (on paper): LT - the same or worse (probably worse) - a slow footed LT is going to struggle against the elite pass rushers LG - the same of worse (probably same) - Dockery was far from great and he wasn't the worst player on the line, but he is being replaced by a rookie C - should be an upgrade - Fowler /Preston sucked RG - worse - a player many people on this board feel was the best lineman is getting replaced by a rookie RT - the same - Walker was a decent RT, and I expect Butler to be at least that.
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 awesome. i love the sound of where this is going, bring it on!
spartacus Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Okay. In comparing last years line to this year (on paper): LT - the same or worse (probably worse) - a slow footed LT is going to struggle against the elite pass rushers LG - the same of worse (probably same) - Dockery was far from great and he wasn't the worst player on the line, but he is being replaced by a rookie C - should be an upgrade - Fowler /Preston sucked RG - worse - a player many people on this board feel was the best lineman is getting replaced by a rookie RT - the same - Walker was a decent RT, and I expect Butler to be at least that. LT- will be much worse than last year. not to mention the Bills will have to commit 3 players (LT,TE RB) to protect Trent;s blind side instead of 1 LT. for as fat as he is, Walker gets no push in the run game, so that will be a downgrade as well. Walker will be gone next year. LG- Dockery may not have played to his contract value, but he was far better than what the Bills have plugged in at LG since Ruben Brown left. Remains to be seen how quickly a rookie will produce at a high enough level to improve over last year. Run blocking may be a push, but there will be some jailbreaks caused by rookie inexperience. C- should be an improvement for the Bills - but Hangertner was not sought after and did not get a huge contract, which may indicate the rest of the league thinks he is nothing more than a part time starter and mutlti-position backup. RG - RT- Butler will be no worse than Walker but will be doing it on an island as all the help will going to Walker
Wagon Circler Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 You mean like "svelte" 366 lb. "new" LT Langston Walker? I just love how people tend to gloss over the fact Peters was pretty damn good in 2007. Instead, they like to focus in on 2008. Like that year is a foreshadow of he'll play from now on. Have you ordered your Jason Peters Eagles jersey? Players are graded on an annual basis. We determining if our o-line will be better than it was last year. Peters might be great in the future. I really don't care. He is no longer a Bill. He forced his way off my team. No love for jason.
PushthePile Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 LT- will be much worse than last year. not to mention the Bills will have to commit 3 players (LT,TE RB) to protect Trent;s blind side instead of 1 LT. for as fat as he is, Walker gets no push in the run game, so that will be a downgrade as well. Walker will be gone next year. LG- Dockery may not have played to his contract value, but he was far better than what the Bills have plugged in at LG since Ruben Brown left. Remains to be seen how quickly a rookie will produce at a high enough level to improve over last year. Run blocking may be a push, but there will be some jailbreaks caused by rookie inexperience. C- should be an improvement for the Bills - but Hangertner was not sought after and did not get a huge contract, which may indicate the rest of the league thinks he is nothing more than a part time starter and mutlti-position backup. RG - RT- Butler will be no worse than Walker but will be doing it on an island as all the help will going to Walker What a suprise! Are you sure the Bills should even suit up for a game Spartacus? LT- In order for Walker to be much worse he's going to have to set the season record for sacks allowed. I know you Peter pumpers like to completely disregard this statistic, but anyone with a shred of honesty will see it as a reference point to his play lasy year. They are comparable in run blocking as well. LG- It's really up in the air for predicting how a rookie will play. IMO, we got rid of another guy who shows up for a paycheck. I never felt like Dockery wanted to be there. At least with the new kid we will get a little attitude and max effort. FWIW Dockery had his share of jailbreaks and mental lapses as well. All those sacks came from that left side folks. How far away are we going to push the blame away from Peters? C- The Bills have been flat out awful at this position for years. TSW experts will tell you Hangartner was not a sought after free agent, and therefore he can't be that good. They will also spell his name wrong because they have no clue who is. I'm always curious how people know exactly how much interest each free agent gets. I don't believe that the average fan has any clue who FAs talk to or what goes on within a franchises inner circles. It never seems to stop TSW goofs from using it as an arguing point though. RG- I believe this will be the most difficult position to pick a starter. We have a few capable players and someone will step up and win the position. It might be a dropoff because I felt Butler played consistently last year. RT- Butler has alot of experience at tackle. He's coming off his best season in the NFL. The Bills are asking him to take over the tackle position and I think he can. IMO, Butler is still improving. This line lacks alot of NFL experience and probowl trophies. I could care less. I see a hardworking player at each position. I'm glad we booted the divas for football players. The Bills for once have drafted the players I was convinced were bound for the Pats, Giants, or Steelers. I am more concerned with our depth, then the starters.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I'm always curious how people know exactly how much interest each free agent gets. I don't believe that the average fan has any clue who FAs talk to or what goes on within a franchises inner circles. It never seems to stop TSW goofs from using it as an arguing point though. There is quantifiable evidence for this, PtP. The contract the given FA ultimately signs tells you exactly how much interest there was.
PushthePile Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 There is quantifiable evidence for this, PtP. The contract the given FA ultimately signs tells you exactly how much interest there was. His contract isn't evidence for the amount of interest he generated. The guy was a backup for a pretty good o-line in Carolina. I think it's obvious he wasn't going to break the bank with a monster contract. The Bills got him for four years at 10 million. Do we know that a handful of other teams weren't in the mix? That is a decent salary for a starting center.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 That is a decent salary for a starting center. Agreed. When these free agents get signed right away, its wrong to assume it means there was no other interest. The Bills laid out a good offer immediately when the clock hit 12, and his agent probably got on the horn to see if anybody else would outbid those numbers. Once he finds out this is the best he's gonna get, there's no reason to delay. Doesn't mean nobody else wanted to sign him. His contract isn't evidence for the amount of interest he generated. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If there was more interest, the Bills would've had to go higher. If there were less, they could've gone lower. I think the eventual contract gives you a pretty good idea of the demand for the player around the league, except in cases where a team grossly overpays, like Washington and Oakland have done in recent years.
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