bartshan-83 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 That's the part that is particularly galling. So they apparently have 1700 acres but no, that's not enough. Have to force unwilling citizens to give up another 500 acres. Oh well, just as long as the '9-11 families' are happy. That's another part that bothers me. I'm pretty sure the Flight 93 families could give two shts if the memorial was a $1 million monument or a $60 million dollar park. In fact, I'm pretty sure they would be just as disgusted as the average person if the choices were explained. ("Hey we can build a wall and monument for a few hundred grand or we can buy up every cornfield for 4 square miles and legally rape anyone who stands in our way. Which would you like?") It's disgusting. Once one of these organizations starts planning, they can always fall back on the "Oh, so you'd rather not honor the the great sacrifices of these heroes?" Regardless of what the intended honorees/beneficiaries want, their name is used to defend an agenda that is probably very far detached from anyone who actually has a relationship to the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 If the northbound Zax were to come face-to-face with an onrushing avalanche, then maybe that story'd be relevant. Compromise with a government that feels perfectly free to do whatever it wants with private property? That is about it... Sums it up quite well Tom. I find the avalanche story quite fitting... Most people choose to "lay down and die" when facing such overwhelming (what appears to be) odds... When in fact an event like that is quite remarkably survivable... It just takes knowing what to do. IMO, this story reeks of that... The skiers (stubborn landowners) skied the incorrect line. I said before that the gov't holds the "trump card"... Unless you want to fight the 5th in the court of public opinion, one is gonna get "snowed." "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." Always fall in with what you're asked to accept. Take what is given, and make it over your way. My aim in life has always been to hold my own with whatever's going. Not against: with. ~Robert Frost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 That's another part that bothers me. I'm pretty sure the Flight 93 families could give two shts if the memorial was a $1 million monument or a $60 million dollar park. In fact, I'm pretty sure they would be just as disgusted as the average person if the choices were explained. ("Hey we can build a wall and monument for a few hundred grand or we can buy up every cornfield for 4 square miles and legally rape anyone who stands in our way. Which would you like?")It's disgusting. Once one of these organizations starts planning, they can always fall back on the "Oh, so you'd rather not honor the the great sacrifices of these heroes?" Regardless of what the intended honorees/beneficiaries want, their name is used to defend an agenda that is probably very far detached from anyone who actually has a relationship to the event. You make some good points (blue)... I wonder if that is really the case in this dispute?? I am not arguing against you or for you... I just wonder what the families real sentiment is. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 You make some good points (blue)... I wonder if that is really the case is the dispute?? I am not arguing against you or for you... I just wonder what the families real sentiment is. ?? No doubt I'm assuming a lot. I just can't believe that the idea to spend that much money on a state park was the brainchild of a Flight 93 family member. In fact, I don't know how much of that $58MM is coming from solicited donations, but I'm actually much MORE pissed as a family member when I'm told that this amount of money is necessary for a memorial. I'm sure there is a better use for it. My wife has given money to the Flight 93 fund. If she knew it would be going towards a $60MM pot to fund this disaster, she might have thought twice about cutting that check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 No doubt I'm assuming a lot. I just can't believe that the idea to spend that much money on a state park was the brainchild of a Flight 93 family member. In fact, I don't know how much of that $58MM is coming from solicited donations, but I'm actually much MORE pissed as a family member when I'm told that this amount of money is necessary for a memorial. I'm sure there is a better use for it. My wife has given money to the Flight 93 fund. If she knew it would be going towards a $60MM pot to fund this disaster, she might have thought twice about cutting that check. That is how I would feel too! My take is that it (the project) grew legs and now it is running... I am not blaming the fanmily members, but you know ohow human nature is... Especially with the gov't... They get an inch and then they want a mile in the name of "doing it right." Limits are hard to set and defend... Just see the flak I take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Washington Post Link from December This take doesn't swing the pendulum in my opinion, but at least it shows the ED was definitely not a surprise move. The article KD orginally linked has been updated a bit (just more info) and what I gather from both of these pieces is that the individual landowners knew ED was coming, but thought it would be coming for the big parcels first (and perhaps only). I'm also guessing that the Park Service got tired of negotiating with Svonavec and thought "Hey, while we are condemning his land, let's just go ahead and pull the trigger on the rest of it." Grimy... Interesting that Svonavec rejected offers of both $250K and $750K and then he is accused of wanting $10MM. I'm no land appraisal expert, but $3K per acre seems pretty low (750K for 278 acres). And perhaps I assumed too much of the families? The article makes it seem like they have been in favor of this action for awhile. And a final note, have you seen the plans for this thing? I completely missed the whole "it looks like an Arabic crest" controversy, but even keeping that aside, it looks bizarre...and HUGE! To paraphrase Bob Uecker "Juuuuuuuuust a bit over the top." http://www.nps.gov/flni/parkmgmt/the-memorial-design.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Thanks! What was the land being used for prior to the crash... The 3k an acre seems like they think it is "forest non-use." Was the land more utilized? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 And a final note, have you seen the plans for this thing? I completely missed the whole "it looks like an Arabic crest" controversy, but even keeping that aside, it looks bizarre...and HUGE! To paraphrase Bob Uecker "Juuuuuuuuust a bit over the top." http://www.nps.gov/flni/parkmgmt/the-memorial-design.htm It is the convergence of the land’s beauty and power with the strength and sacrifice of heroic, personal action on September 11 that give the memorial site its unique sanctity. The memorial design expresses this confluence by marking the Flight Path as it breaks the circular continuity of the Field of Honor edge at the Entry Portal and the Sacred Ground, where the crash occurred. Are they !@#$ing kidding me??? Am I supposed to be taking this seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Are they !@#$ing kidding me??? Am I supposed to be taking this seriously? I think they're contacting the guy who did this piece in San Francisco for the monument at the point of impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I think they're contacting the guy who did this piece in San Francisco for the monument at the point of impact. I like that, though. I think the way the Arrow of Fate pierces the Hallowed Earthen Surface illustrates the Spiritual Unity of Sky and Ground in a way that could only highlight the Sanctified Circle Of Courage And Bravery created by those brave individuals at the Glorious Terminus of their Heroic Descent To Eternal Rest. Really, are they !@#$ing kidding??? The only thing missing from this neo-pagan worshipful bull sh-- is Albert Speer lining the perimeter with searchlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I think they're contacting the guy who did this piece in San Francisco for the monument at the point of impact. You owe me a new monitor!!! Damn coffee! I did not expect that, excellent link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 And a final note, have you seen the plans for this thing? I completely missed the whole "it looks like an Arabic crest" controversy, but even keeping that aside, it looks bizarre...and HUGE! To paraphrase Bob Uecker "Juuuuuuuuust a bit over the top." http://www.nps.gov/flni/parkmgmt/the-memorial-design.htm I had to read this part 3-4 times, and i still can't believe it. Western Overlook The Western Overlook, located at the western edge of the Field of Honor, is where the FBI set up its command post for their investigation after the crash and the families were first brought to overlook the crash site. The foundations and floor slabs of buildings there will remain to evoke the memory of the structures. A meandering path will allow visitors to access this area. Two of the building footprints are among planned trees and one will be within the Field of Honor clearing; marking the location where the families first viewed the crash site below. Seriously? We need to memorialize where the FBI set up their HQ? "And this right here is the exact spot where Bill the junior agent spilled coffee grounds whilst attempting to brew a pot of coffee for the senior agents assigned to the investigation." Why don't we just cut to the chase and close down all airspace of the flight pattern and designate it "memorial airspace." Every time you look up into the sky you should remember the flight and drop down to your knees to say a prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I had to read this part 3-4 times, and i still can't believe it. Seriously? We need to memorialize where the FBI set up their HQ? "And this right here is the exact spot where Bill the junior agent spilled coffee grounds whilst attempting to brew a pot of coffee for the senior agents assigned to the investigation." Why don't we just cut to the chase and close down all airspace of the flight pattern and designate it "memorial airspace." Every time you look up into the sky you should remember the flight and drop down to your knees to say a prayer. Truth be told, it's also where the Holy Families originally viewed the Field of Honor, not just where the Federal Bureau Of Investigation In All Their Glory set up their Beatific Command Post. So it serves an important Purpose of Remembrance, for people making the Holy Pilgrimmage to The Memorial Park Of Sacrifice to be able to stand where the Holy Families first stood and see, not what they saw, but some God-awfully pitiful excuse for a memorial. The Onion couldn't make this a bigger farce. On the other hand, it seems oddly appropriate to commemorate an airplane crash with something so terminally misguided that you'd want to crash an airplane into it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 http://www.nps.gov/flni/parkmgmt/the-memorial-design.htm I don't even know where to begin with that. And perhaps I assumed too much of the families? The article makes it seem like they have been in favor of this action for awhile. Not surprising. I admit making a supposition in the first post, but it was based on hearing the same nonsense from these people in regards to the WTC site. And for the record, the Freedom Tower was supposed to be finished this year. Ha. Seriously? We need to memorialize where the FBI set up their HQ? "And this right here is the exact spot where Bill the junior agent spilled coffee grounds whilst attempting to brew a pot of coffee for the senior agents assigned to the investigation." Nothing like government memorials to glorify government. Just one more step toward the edge of the cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I had to read this part 3-4 times, and i still can't believe it. Seriously? We need to memorialize where the FBI set up their HQ? "And this right here is the exact spot where Bill the junior agent spilled coffee grounds whilst attempting to brew a pot of coffee for the senior agents assigned to the investigation." Why don't we just cut to the chase and close down all airspace of the flight pattern and designate it "memorial airspace." Every time you look up into the sky you should remember the flight and drop down to your knees to say a prayer. Ya... I hear you. The last 45 minutes I just helped a hefty sum of money in commercial cargo get to market while the structure sits and wastes away... When the "big one hits" and they have to close for 60 days, interests are gonna be screaming to the tune of losing 18 million over those 60 days. But, rock on US gov't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Thanks! What was the land being used for prior to the crash... The 3k an acre seems like they think it is "forest non-use." Was the land more utilized? ?? I believe they said it was strip-mined and now it's just forest and grass. So maybe that is a good price. Maybe $3 per acre is a good price though....I have no clue. It just sounded low. And I don't mean to keep dragging this stuff up, but this story is like the gift that keeps on giving. I'm not sure if this has settled by now, but apparently there was big dispute over who should get credit for the memorial design. I mean, there are actually professors out there fighting to take credit for this abortion. If there was ever a manual for how to completely screw up every phase of a project like this, it would be based on the Flight 93 Memorial. Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I believe they said it was strip-mined and now it's just forest and grass. So maybe that is a good price. Maybe $3 per acre is a good price though....I have no clue. It just sounded low. And I don't mean to keep dragging this stuff up, but this story is like the gift that keeps on giving. I'm not sure if this has settled by now, but apparently there was big dispute over who should get credit for the memorial design. I mean, there are actually professors out there fighting to take credit for this abortion. If there was ever a manual for how to completely screw up every phase of a project like this, it would be based on the Flight 93 Memorial. Wow "No, it's MY crop circle!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 "No, it's MY crop circle!" Ahem....Field of Honor™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Ahem....Field of Honor™ It's a frickin' crop circle. $64M and 2500 acres for a prank played by three frat boys with a case of Piels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I believe they said it was strip-mined and now it's just forest and grass. So maybe that is a good price. Maybe $3 per acre is a good price though....I have no clue. It just sounded low. And I don't mean to keep dragging this stuff up, but this story is like the gift that keeps on giving. I'm not sure if this has settled by now, but apparently there was big dispute over who should get credit for the memorial design. I mean, there are actually professors out there fighting to take credit for this abortion. If there was ever a manual for how to completely screw up every phase of a project like this, it would be based on the Flight 93 Memorial. Wow I'm not at all shocked that people are fighting for credit. Our society really has sunk that low. Instead of actually honoring the heroes of flight 93, we have idiots fighting over who's name gets the recognition for the vomit stain on the countryside. Way to make it about yourselves, idiots. This entire memorial has turned into a perfect example of the state of personal selfishness and government waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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