KD in CA Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 See, they didn't destroy our way of life after all! Things are just peachy! Yes, nothing says "America" and "freedom" like the government seizing citizens' private property at the point of a gun so that we can have yet another gaudy 9-11 memorial. vomit inducing link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 See, they didn't destroy our way of life after all! Things are just peachy! Yes, nothing says "America" and "freedom" like the government seizing citizens' private property at the point of a gun so that we can have yet another gaudy 9-11 memorial. vomit inducing link Absolutely disgusting. Here's something interesting: The dictionary definition of "terrorism" ter⋅ror⋅ism /ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA –noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. I'm not seeing much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 $58MM and 2200 acres? Good God...Whatever happened to building a wall or a statue or something? I'm assuming a lot but from the article is looks like there was no communication, a lot of time wasting and now panic to meet the deadline. So faced with the possibility of looking like idiots, they pull the Eminent Domain card and give the obligatory "We're all sorry it had to come to this, but we tried our best." Sickening... And to be clear, I'm actually in favor of them building some sort of memorial for US 93. It was a true act of heroism and who knows what those people prevented. But a $60 million dollar, 4 square mile national park that is "legally" stolen from landowners is not the way to honor their memory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 After visiting Gettysburg for the first time last year I was very suprised at the gaudiness of it all. I think a small monument is all that's really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 $58MM and 2200 acres? Good God...Whatever happened to building a wall or a statue or something? That's the part that is particularly galling. So they apparently have 1700 acres but no, that's not enough. Have to force unwilling citizens to give up another 500 acres. Oh well, just as long as the '9-11 families' are happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Aside from the hijackers, there were 33 passengers and 7 crew on the flight. For which they want 2200 acres. So they need two and a half million square feet for each person on the flight, or they can't memorialize them? Are you !@#$ing kidding me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Count me in...this is !@#$ing ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 After visiting Gettysburg for the first time last year I was very suprised at the gaudiness of it all. I think a small monument is all that's really needed. Gettysburg is a particularly egregious example. Every single regiment has an obelisk, even the ones that sat in reserve miles away and never fired a shot (which are my favorites in a way: "Here is where the 5th Wisconsin stood around and waited." Hurrah for consuming oxygen! ) We, as a society, have lost the capability to memorialize anything. We instead somehow celebrate it in hopes of making ourselves feel better about ourselves. One only needs to look at that pathetic travesty of a WWII Memorial on the National Mall, and contrast it to the truly excellent and moving Vietnam Memorial, to realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Gettysburg is a particularly egregious example. Every single regiment has an obelisk, even the ones that sat in reserve miles away and never fired a shot (which are my favorites in a way: "Here is where the 5th Wisconsin stood around and waited." Hurrah for consuming oxygen! ) We, as a society, have lost the capability to memorialize anything. We instead somehow celebrate it in hopes of making ourselves feel better about ourselves. One only needs to look at that pathetic travesty of a WWII Memorial on the National Mall, and contrast it to the truly excellent and moving Vietnam Memorial, to realize that. Funny, I thought that letting it return to grassland was about as fitting a memorial as there could be. Most everyone speaks highly of the Vietnam Memorial... but when Nightline airs the names of the GWOT dead on Memorial Day, the people who are most ardently in favor of the wars frown on it and iirc they threatened to take legal action against ABC. Looking at cold stone pillar fountains for WWII GOOD. Reading the names of people who actually died in war BAD. Nevermind, $58M when we're in a recession. I realize it's a drop in the ocean, but it's drops that accumulate to form that ocean, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Funny, I thought that letting it return to grassland was about as fitting a memorial as there could be. Most everyone speaks highly of the Vietnam Memorial... but when Nightline airs the names of the GWOT dead on Memorial Day, the people who are most ardently in favor of the wars frown on it and iirc they threatened to take legal action against ABC. Looking at cold stone pillar fountains for WWII GOOD. Reading the names of people who actually died in war BAD. Nevermind, $58M when we're in a recession. I realize it's a drop in the ocean, but it's drops that accumulate to form that ocean, you know. I think the the reason for frowning is not the act but the motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Everyone on PPP agrees? Pin this thread. Kum-bay-yah my lord kum-bay-yah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Everyone on PPP agrees? Pin this thread. Kum-bay-yah my lord kum-bay-yah. All have not been heard from yet. Quit your damn singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 After visiting Gettysburg for the first time last year I was very suprised at the gaudiness of it all. I think a small monument is all that's really needed. I always wanted to find the spot were Gen. Sickles lost his leg. This guy was a true American. Introduced his prostitute to the Queen of England as his political opponents wife. Made General with no formal military training. At 33 married a 15 year old. Killed the son of Francis Scott Key because he was having an affair with said wife. The first American to win a temporary insanity defense for murder. Disobeyed orders and overextended his lines which were mowed down, and gave Lee the confidence to attack on day 3, thus saving the Union with his incompetence. Smoked a cigar with his leg dangling as they took him off the battlefield. Sickles really needs a good screenplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I always wanted to find the spot were Gen. Sickles lost his leg. This guy was a true American. Introduced his prostitute to the Queen of England as his political opponents wife. Made General with no formal military training. At 33 married a 15 year old. Killed the son of Francis Scott Key because he was having an affair with said wife. The first American to win a temporary insanity defense for murder. Disobeyed orders and overextended his lines which were mowed down, and gave Lee the confidence to attack on day 3, thus saving the Union with his incompetence. Smoked a cigar with his leg dangling as they took him off the battlefield. Sickles really needs a good screenplay. Sickles wasn't incompetent as much as aggressively insubordinate and untrained. He handled III Corps reasonably capably at Chancellorsville. Hardly the worst Union general (though he may have been the worst on the field at Gettysburg), but he certainly didn't deserve the Medal of Honor he got himself awarded. I don't know precisely where he lost his leg...but his leg is on display at Walter Reed, if you want to visit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Sickles wasn't incompetent as much as aggressively insubordinate and untrained. He handled III Corps reasonably capably at Chancellorsville. Hardly the worst Union general (though he may have been the worst on the field at Gettysburg), but he certainly didn't deserve the Medal of Honor he got himself awarded. I don't know precisely where he lost his leg...but his leg is on display at Walter Reed, if you want to visit it. Medal of Honor too. Thanks Tom, I'm hoping to smoke a cigar with it someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Interesting... Even before readinig the article, I got to thinking about one place: Gettysburg and how they handled part of that. It was answered in the article: Condemnation is rarely used. The last time the park service used it, Sheriden said, was to acquire a tower at the Gettysburg battlefield. The tower wad demolished to return the battlefield to the way it looked in 1863. What is bugging me is why they can't make deals with the landowners? Everybody knows the gov't holds the "trump card" under the 5th admendment. Why is is so hard to come up with a deal? Sheridan said he did not want to characterize any individual landowner as unwilling to negotiate, but, "Basically, at this point, we have not been able to acquire all the land we need," he said. Somebdoy is not playing ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Everyone on PPP agrees? Pin this thread. Kum-bay-yah my lord kum-bay-yah. Woooo. Wait a second there bucko! Like I said above, somebody is not "playing ball square." I agree it may be the gov't... But I have my doubts the other way too. What if some douchebag is asking for way beyond "just compensation?" What other resort does the gov't have other then to whip out their "trump card." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Woooo. Wait a second there bucko! Like I said above, somebody is not "playing ball square." I agree it may be the gov't... But I have my doubts the other way too. What if some douchebag is asking for way beyond "just compensation?" What other resort does the gov't have other then to whip out their "trump card." Or maybe he just wanted to maintain possession of his private property, on the grounds of "You want to do what??? Are you drunk?" By the way...Gettysburg National Military Park is about 6000 acres, memorializing a three-day battle. The National Parks Service requires almost half that to memoralize a plane crash? Whoever green-lit this should be strung up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Or maybe he just wanted to maintain possession of his private property, on the grounds of "You want to do what??? Are you drunk?" By the way...Gettysburg National Military Park is about 6000 acres, memorializing a three-day battle. The National Parks Service requires almost half that to memoralize a plane crash? Whoever green-lit this should be strung up. Ya, I understand. I just find it better to move on, well at least move east or west. "The Zax" "The Zax" is a lesson about the importance of compromise. In the story a North-going Zax and a South-going Zax meet face to face in the Prairie of Prax. Because they refuse to move east, west, or any direction except their respective headings, the two Zax become stuck, as they refuse to move around each other. The Zax stand so long that eventually a highway overpass is built around them, and the story ends with the Zax still standing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 "The Zax""The Zax" is a lesson about the importance of compromise. In the story a North-going Zax and a South-going Zax meet face to face in the Prairie of Prax. Because they refuse to move east, west, or any direction except their respective headings, the two Zax become stuck, as they refuse to move around each other. The Zax stand so long that eventually a highway overpass is built around them, and the story ends with the Zax still standing there. If the northbound Zax were to come face-to-face with an onrushing avalanche, then maybe that story'd be relevant. Compromise with a government that feels perfectly free to do whatever it wants with private property? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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