BUFFALOTONE Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 No disrespect John and I really don't know your situation but it just sounds like she is a 15 year girl being a 15 year old girl. You have a boy that's getting ready to be a senior let him take her under his wing for a year and see how she does. That's what older siblings are for. To be honest it sounds like she just needs a little discipline from you and your wife to keep her on the right track. I knew a couple of kids that were home schooled and when they went to college it was bad, that obviously doesn't hold true for everyone but being social won't just help her in college but in the job market years down the road. Best of luck. She will be fine.
mcjeff215 Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I've two kids, one is two and one is just about eight. That's enough experience to know that they really go through some serious phases. It's hard to know what they'll be interested in three months from now, let alone four or five years ahead. You said your daughter is in eighth grade. That's middle school territory. Consider that it's one of the most difficult times for a kid. Also remember that at the end of this school year, she'll (probably?) be going into a new school. She's struggling with finding an identity, fitting in, and pleasing you and other authority figures all at the same time. I don't mean any disrespect, but she's far to young for the "no college" decision. Far to young. When I was in eighth grade, I couldn't wait to be done with school so I could become a punk musician. When I was a junior in high school, I was hunting medical schools. I wound up going the computer science route. My grades were god awful in middle school, simply because I was too young to care about them. Also, remember that any change in the school habit is going to throw her for a loop. She'll miss friends, routines, and the experience. Probably much like moving away, though slightly more frustrating as everyone she's known since around elementary school are still right up the road. Lastly, seriously weigh her chances of success in the music business. Sure, she's great. I'm sure she's probably absolutely wonderful. The problem is, there are a lot of other absolutely wonderful young singers out there. Very very few of them make a living doing it. Quite honestly, I'd put as much focus as I could on the school work and leave the music as a secondary. Statistically speaking, she's going to have to rely on that education more than the musical talent. If she's really into it, she can go forward with a music education, get involved in school orchestra, and really find her niche that way. That gives you more of a symbiotic relationship between the two; one doesn't have to suffer for the other. I hope that helps. If nothing else, it puts my spin on it! (All that said, there's nothing wrong with home schooling at all in my opinion. There are groups you can join to keep the social aspect up and get involved in sports. It's a big decision, though.)
Ramius Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Whatever you decide to do, you need to go ahead with the assumption that the music career is NOT going to pan out.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I think you can get away home schooling a child up to first or second grade. After that unless you have a degree in education you should leave it to the professionals. Never mind the social interaction aspect. Kids need to be around other kids to learn social skills too. PTR
Captain Hindsight Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 John: Have you considered asking the school district to do some Psycho/Educational Assessment testing? When the psychological and educational testing are included in an overall assessment of a person it is called a psycho/educational assessment. Psycho/educational assessments help document the information processing dysfunctions or strengths of the students being tested . The info would be helpful to the school she is enrolled in and would also help anyone working with her in a home school situation. You might have to press for this, as so many districts try to limit spending money. I don't like the school just suggesting home schooling. I would want to hear from them how they WILL provide the best environment possible to ensure her success. That jumped out at me too. Something isnt right about that. I would suggest going out and talking to different counselors abo0utt this and no offense to anyone on the board but we are far from experts in this field. If she is only in middle school it may just be that shes in middle school. I hated every minute of my middle school years and eventually transfered to a private school and it was the best thing to nhappen to me. You mentioned earlier the financial situation isnt so hot, many private schools have scholorship programs. They would require her to keep a minimum GPA at the very least but it is something you should explore. And there are many schools out there that have alot to do with the arts and that may be exactly what she needs. Home-Schooling to me, i dont know i just dont like the idea of it. Its hard to teach people especially members of your own family anything much less chemistry for example. Recently i had a 5th grade cousin come up to me asking for help on his math homework and i couldnt do it. I guess all im sayign is keep all your options open and you dont have to make a decison until the fall so dont decide anything yet Good luck!
In space no one can hear Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I've two kids, one is two and one is just about eight. That's enough experience to know that they really go through some serious phases. It's hard to know what they'll be interested in three months from now, let alone four or five years ahead. You said your daughter is in eighth grade. That's middle school territory. Consider that it's one of the most difficult times for a kid. Also remember that at the end of this school year, she'll (probably?) be going into a new school. She's struggling with finding an identity, fitting in, and pleasing you and other authority figures all at the same time. I don't mean any disrespect, but she's far to young for the "no college" decision. Far to young. When I was in eighth grade, I couldn't wait to be done with school so I could become a punk musician. When I was a junior in high school, I was hunting medical schools. I wound up going the computer science route. My grades were god awful in middle school, simply because I was too young to care about them. Also, remember that any change in the school habit is going to throw her for a loop. She'll miss friends, routines, and the experience. Probably much like moving away, though slightly more frustrating as everyone she's known since around elementary school are still right up the road. Lastly, seriously weigh her chances of success in the music business. Sure, she's great. I'm sure she's probably absolutely wonderful. The problem is, there are a lot of other absolutely wonderful young singers out there. Very very few of them make a living doing it. Quite honestly, I'd put as much focus as I could on the school work and leave the music as a secondary. Statistically speaking, she's going to have to rely on that education more than the musical talent. If she's really into it, she can go forward with a music education, get involved in school orchestra, and really find her niche that way. That gives you more of a symbiotic relationship between the two; one doesn't have to suffer for the other. I hope that helps. If nothing else, it puts my spin on it! (All that said, there's nothing wrong with home schooling at all in my opinion. There are groups you can join to keep the social aspect up and get involved in sports. It's a big decision, though.) mcjeff215: Very thoughtful reply with many excellent points to ponder. I am a former SPED Teacher and School Administrator. Currently I work in business, but still tutor a few students because it is so rewarding to help to turn around their academic success (and teachers perceptions of a students limitations) Quick story: For years I was a teacher administrator for a school in Chicago for kids kicked out of the Chicago school system. We can start with the premise that to get kicked out of the Chicago school system can take some effort right? Well, we had an assortment of learning disabled, emotionally disturbed and conduct disordered students. But we also would get kids that somehow fell through the cracks because they never had anyone advocate for them and help unlock their potential. Currently one of my former students at that school I had in his 8th grade year came to our school with a long rap sheet of "problems"- is in the Doctoral Program for Psychology at The University of Chicago. He had many teachers (and The Principal) believe in him and help him gain self awareness of why he "behaved" a certain way and he learned how to make better choices. He was also taught in a way that addressed his strengths/weaknesses specific to his learning style. I would say the moral of the story is that no one expected him to graduate from high school, much less college or with an advanced degree. Dont put limits on a students potential. What he did get at our school was a group of teachers and administrators committed to seeing him succeed. My number one belief in education is that each student at our school gain the belief that "It matters that they are there" that the school is not whole or complete unless they are a part of it. John: seek out staff at your daughters school that are willing to believe in her and advocate for her and don't be afraid to DEMAND that the school provide an environment that ensures her success. It's their responsibility and unfortunately many just don't take it seriously.
John from Riverside Posted May 7, 2009 Author Posted May 7, 2009 Hey guys....just saw some of the responses...... - I didn't throw this out there yesterday......but one of the things that is factoring into our equation is she barely made it out of middle school as it is.....She was suspended 3 times for fighting this year and barely avoided a fourth. One of them was with a boy. She isn't doing to hot at the social interaction part as it is. - Second....we are not talking about a C- student here who we would like to see get A's......D's and F's folks....
DrDawkinstein Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Hey guys....just saw some of the responses...... - I didn't throw this out there yesterday......but one of the things that is factoring into our equation is she barely made it out of middle school as it is.....She was suspended 3 times for fighting this year and barely avoided a fourth. One of them was with a boy. She isn't doing to hot at the social interaction part as it is. - Second....we are not talking about a C- student here who we would like to see get A's......D's and F's folks.... in all honesty, she sounds exactly like most of the girls i knew in middle school at west seneca east back in the early 90s. they all settled down once they got into high school. for the most part. dont jump the gun because your daughter isnt "perfect". lots of kids struggle at this age. ESPECIALLY girls. dont get me wrong, something should be done. but i dont know about anything as drastic as pulling her out of school completely. sounds like, at this point, she would have problems whether she was in school or not. the only difference will be that she'll be fighting with you and your wife instead of the teachers/students. there are bigger issues at hand here. i dont mean to imply there is anything wrong with your daughter, other than she is a typical adolescent girl. possibly the worst creatures on the planet.
In space no one can hear Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Hey guys....just saw some of the responses...... - I didn't throw this out there yesterday......but one of the things that is factoring into our equation is she barely made it out of middle school as it is.....She was suspended 3 times for fighting this year and barely avoided a fourth. One of them was with a boy. She isn't doing to hot at the social interaction part as it is. - Second....we are not talking about a C- student here who we would like to see get A's......D's and F's folks.... Switching her to home schooling is not "striking at the root of the problem" You need to address the underlying issues that are causing the surface behavior/acting out. A full scale Psycho/educational assessment should be completed.
Gordio Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 in all honesty, she sounds exactly like most of the girls i knew in middle school at west seneca east back in the early 90s. they all settled down once they got into high school. for the most part. dont jump the gun because your daughter isnt "perfect". lots of kids struggle at this age. ESPECIALLY girls. dont get me wrong, something should be done. but i dont know about anything as drastic as pulling her out of school completely. sounds like, at this point, she would have problems whether she was in school or not. the only difference will be that she'll be fighting with you and your wife instead of the teachers/students. there are bigger issues at hand here. i dont mean to imply there is anything wrong with your daughter, other than she is a typical adolescent girl. possibly the worst creatures on the planet. It has been a long time since I was in middle school but I did not know any girls that got into fights, especially with boys. John, I guess my final advice(not that you really care what I think) I really do not believe in home school, however with that being said, you know your daughter as well as anyone, if you & your wife think it is the right thing to do then make the decision, make the best situation possible for your daughter, & once you made that decision, do not 2nd guess yourself.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 It has been a long time since I was in middle school but I did not know any girls that got into fights, especially with boys. one of my funniest memories from middle school was my friend chris getting his butt beat by a girl outside of ice skating at west seneca rink. we were in 8th grade. it wasnt the only example. it definitely happens. most of the girls in my school at the time were constantly in detention for mouthing off to teachers, fighting with each other, vandalizing, smoking in the bathroom, etc. the list could go on and on. there isnt one that didnt turn out "alright". maybe not doctors or professional singers. but at least happy moms (which is a fulltime job itself). the "worst" one of the group from my grade, is a successful sales rep now. my overall point is, the school isnt the main problem that needs to be addressed. as InSpace pointed out, there are bigger issues that should be addressed.
mcjeff215 Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Hey guys....just saw some of the responses...... - I didn't throw this out there yesterday......but one of the things that is factoring into our equation is she barely made it out of middle school as it is.....She was suspended 3 times for fighting this year and barely avoided a fourth. One of them was with a boy. She isn't doing to hot at the social interaction part as it is. - Second....we are not talking about a C- student here who we would like to see get A's......D's and F's folks.... I can tell you some stories. I graduated High School in 1997 (Hamburg). Some of the girls coming up were just as bad as the boys. There's really no differentiation. Smoking, hitting the bong, drinking, mouthing off... you name it. It wasn't isolated to either one of the sexes. Fights as well. Middle school is usually harder than high school. It's the transition from childhood to real adolescence. In other words, you still really want to hug your daddy when you get home, but you don't want your friends to know that. You're describing my middle school career. Early high school for that matter. I just about failed everything. I was blowing off classes in 7th and 8th grade. I was a total bastard. They did just about everything to "fix" me. Scared straight programs, NYS mandated alcohol classes, extracurricular activities, you name it. I was quite a bit worse than your average middle school kid. Two things made me get it. Well, three. First, I finally understood I wasn't "special." I couldn't just do whatever it was that I wanted to. After high school, there was no path laid out for me. If I didn't address it, I'd be delivering pizza at 40. Second, there were a couple people in my life that I really just didn't want to disappoint. People other than my parents. And third? Everyone grows out of it. In middle school, everyone laughs when you zing a spitball across the front of the room. In high school? Your peers look at you like you're some kind of freak. All in all, none of what "they" did helped. I had to learn it on my own. I'm still that way and my wife hates it. She'll give me advice all day long, but I won't act on it until I've learned for myself. I guess there's no real advice buried in there, rather a reassurance that even the biggest troublemakers turn out okay. It's really your call. I wouldn't do it myself. I don't know nearly enough about child psychology, education, or subject specifics. I can tell her to read a chapter and write a paper, but I'm kidding myself if I remember the first thing about Chemistry,Martin Luther, or The Reconstruction. I'd get her involved in school music programs, coach her toward the right group of friends, and work with the school to give her the best shot.
Corp000085 Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 As a public school teacher, I am 98% against home schooling, leaving the 1% for folks who want to isolate their children for legitimate religious reasons and 1% for the medically fragile. I'll make my advice short and sweet. Public Law 94-142 states that all children should be afforded a free and appropriate education in their least restrictive environment. If she's struggling academically and/or socially, talk to the school about getting her tested. You are her best advocate in the schools. Know that the school is required by law to screen children and determine if further testing is necessary. Get a psych consult. If she's diagnosed with anything, and I mean ANYTHING, the school, by the IDEA mandate is required to service her appropriately and up to your standards. According to your statement, I am 100% against home schooling in your situation. I am also 100% convinced that you should be worried about your daughter. However, rather than pull her entirely, have her tested, see what comes up, and then go from there. Again, the school is required to set up an meeting, devise an individualized educational plan and implement it. The burden is on you to start the process, and once its rolling, the burden is on the schools to implement it.
John from Riverside Posted May 7, 2009 Author Posted May 7, 2009 As a public school teacher, I am 98% against home schooling, leaving the 1% for folks who want to isolate their children for legitimate religious reasons and 1% for the medically fragile. I'll make my advice short and sweet. Public Law 94-142 states that all children should be afforded a free and appropriate education in their least restrictive environment. If she's struggling academically and/or socially, talk to the school about getting her tested. You are her best advocate in the schools. Know that the school is required by law to screen children and determine if further testing is necessary. Get a psych consult. If she's diagnosed with anything, and I mean ANYTHING, the school, by the IDEA mandate is required to service her appropriately and up to your standards. According to your statement, I am 100% against home schooling in your situation. I am also 100% convinced that you should be worried about your daughter. However, rather than pull her entirely, have her tested, see what comes up, and then go from there. Again, the school is required to set up an meeting, devise an individualized educational plan and implement it. The burden is on you to start the process, and once its rolling, the burden is on the schools to implement it. Corp....if only it was that simple. I have been working with Ashlee's school for the last two years on various issues......none of it has been met to my satisfaction. I am not blaming the teachers....but in my opinion the public school system flat out sucks.......the teachers are just overwhelmed....too overwhelmed to give my daughter the separate attention she needs. She is a number in a sea of numbers....and trying to talk to her school about issues unless I go in there in person (really hard to do all the time as I have to pay the bills) is very frustrating...... We decided that we are going to try this for a year and see how it works out.....we have a found a plan where she gets her homework every week but has access to one on one tutoring Monday thru Friday and also has a support group where he has activities with other home schooled kids......I have also set her up for the testing that was recommended above. If she does well over this next year we will stick with it.....if we dont see improvement we might reenroll her back into public school.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 in all honesty, she sounds exactly like most of the girls i knew in middle school at west seneca east back in the early 90s. I am sorry for the tangent... You went to East? There is your problem right there... Let alone the girls being wild bohemians... I went to West (1986)... Sorry John, I don't have much advice... Mine are 11 and 7... And send them to a Catholic school, my son is constantly scoring in the 99 %tile when taking standardized tests and he gets straight A's... The only think I worry about is that maybe private school may be stifling him... I always heard that private school (especially at the high school level where we plan to send him) is more benefited towards students who struggle or lack the academic discipline. I would maybe look into the private school think more John...
John Adams Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I am a huge home-school hater and proponent. The religious.isolationist folks dominate the home-schooling scene and give it a bad name. But if you think your school system sucks and you have both the abundance of energy and knowledge that can help your kid, go for it. But here's the thing. You have to work hard to make home-schooling work. As in, turn the world into your classroom. Going to teach science? Go to a museum or call a college professor who will happily show you the edge of science. Going to teach history? Read about it in some books--not texts-- AND VISIT THE SITES. Basically, you have to turn the world and a world of experts into your classroom. You'd be shocked at how many experts would love to talk to a kid about what they do. But that means you're going to work your ass off to provide this education and it won't be cheap. If all you plan on doing is assigning homework and teaching from a book, good luck. You will be giving her the same crappy education that bores her already. The social aspects would have to be backfilled with a million other activities. Enroll her in group music classes at a local community college. Make her pick 3 "classes" on any topic through local communities. Tell her that if she is going to do the homeschooling, she has to do 10 hours of volunteer work at the charity of her choosing. When the time is right, make her get a job. All of these things will get her plenty of exposure socially. Moreover, the social lab that is high school (where she's about to be) is A.W.F.U.L for many kids and making it though it--though most people will tell you is an important part of growing up--can leave deep scars.
tennesseeboy Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I agree. I'm not a parent, but it seems to me that professional advice outside of a single public school counselor should be sought. I agree as well. This is a big decision and you have given a number of pluses and minuses. You certainly are not making the decision lightly, and it sounds as if your daughter has a lot going for her...not the least of which is loving and caring parents.
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 But here's the thing. You have to work hard to make home-schooling work. As in, turn the world into your classroom. All parents should be doing that no matter what!
Corp000085 Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Corp....if only it was that simple. I have been working with Ashlee's school for the last two years on various issues......none of it has been met to my satisfaction. hire a lawyer... seriously. The school system will start to work with you when they know you mean business.
Recommended Posts