Tim Tebow

[Ramius]

Tebow is a part in a system the same way Joe Montana was a part of the West Coast System in S.F.

 

Can you please list the teams that run the spread option in the NFL? Unless half the league all of a sudden adopts that offense, tebag is going to do nothing as a QB at the NFL level. He can't pass the ball, and he wont be able to run over or by defenders like he does in college. I know tebag is religious, but if he tries to run like he does in college, James Harrison or Patrick Willis are going to give him a good reason to pray to God.

[KD in CA]

Right.

 

That's the first thing I think of when I see and hear Tebow is Vince Young and his historic 6 on the wonderlic, not to mention the striking similarities to Michael Vick and his ability to, ummm, do whatever it was that made everyone think he was a good QB.

ummm....you mean like running for lots of TDs and throwing to WRs who are constantly wide open against the stellar defensive backfields of Vandy and The Citadel?

 

Yeah, no similarities at all. But please, tell us again about all the "intangibles" that make Tebow so different from every other over-hyped college bust for the last 20 years. Talk about ridiculous!

 

 

Tebow is a part in a system the same way Joe Montana was a part of the West Coast System in S.F.

Yes, because doing it in college and doing it in the NFL is exactly the same.

 

 

Honestly, the hero worship for this guy is just laughable.

[Ramius]

I was trying to highlight things that were wrong or straight made up in your post, but everything was highlighted, so I said screw it. You either don't watch the games, or are simply lying about what you see. And I've seen you on here rooting on FSU before, so whatever. Keep up the good scouting work. IMO, anyone who makes claims like you do in this post (no QB like Young/Vick will be taken in top 5 again) are just plain ignorant, so I guess we'll just have to disagree. If Tebow were as bad as you keep saying, he would be a horrible QB, no matter what the system. You just don't compete, and win championships, being that bad at throwing the ball. And it's not like all he does is run, his passing stats are outstanding. The truth is in the tape AND the stats. Yes, he has his issues. He tends to push the ball more than throw it, especially on short routes. His passing motion (at least up until now) has been awkward, and he IS slow in his release (the biggest negative he has in his game, IMO). But those are all possibly correctable, and even if it doesn't happen with Tebow, there will always be teams who will take that chance. That said, Tebow CAN throw the ball on a rope, he's done it many times, both short and long. It's all about consistency for him right now. If he can learn to do it all the time, he'll be top prospect.

 

And I don't have to "face" anything. I've made no claims about what Tebow will do in the NFL, nor do I care. But unlike you, I haven't decided to flood a message board with made up crap in order to feel better about myself (or my team).

 

EDIT:

. He's still slow with it, but it's a new delivery.

 

So FSU fans are biased, but you, as a UF grad, are the beacon of unbiased-ness?

[Flbillsfan#1]

I think you are letting the fact that you watch Tim Tebow every time he plays as we as the fact that you are a fan of the school he plays for cloud your judgement about him. Even if we get a new coaching staff Edwards will still be here. Not saying he will be the incumbent starter or that the new staff won't be looking for a new QB but Edwards will be back in a competition role at least.

 

But assuming the Bills have a top ten pick and are looking for a new QB I seriously hope that they don't take Tebow at least not in the top ten. Odds are they have big needs besides QB like LT and WR. If they absolutely need to take a QB I hope they take a more conventional guy like Bradford because Tim Tebow just won't be able to become that playoff caliber QB for about 4 years minimum.

 

However if Edwards has a So-So year. IF they want to take Tebow in the second round or trade back into the back end of the first round and than address another need on the first round pick I would be all for it. If you start Trent and than build up Tebow for a few years I think that would work. Than you hedge your bets because if Trent develops you have Tebow to trade and some team will shell out a decent pick for him. If Trent sucks or is too injury prone than you have Tebow to step in.

 

Flbillsfan do you think that Tebow (Lets assume he wins another title and plays well but doesn't exceed his typical play) is worth a top ten pick? Too many questions about his throwing motion and is he just a product of the system for me.

If Trent has a GOOD year, I think the Bills have a good chance to make the playoffs. If he does not play well or is injured yet again however I believe a new Coach will bring another QB in to compete with him. I would be surprised if Tebow is a Top 10 pick but who knows. I don't think the Bills will pick in the top 10, I think they finish 7-9 or BETTER.

[billsfan89]

If Trent has a GOOD year, I think the Bills have a good chance to make the playoffs. If he does not play well or is injured yet again however I believe a new Coach will bring another QB in to compete with him. I would be surprised if Tebow is a Top 10 pick but who knows. I don't think the Bills will pick in the top 10, I think they finish 7-9 or BETTER.

 

OK if you were the Bills GM would you pick Tebow number 10 overall. Just to juice it up lets say if you don't pick him at number 10 there is no way you would be able to get him some other point in the draft. I know its unfair and hared to make the pick not knowing things like draft stock and the way he looks in his senior year. But its a hypothetical so I wouldn't over think it too much.

 

Also Trent is coming off a SO-SO season looked good at times, looked bad at times and got injured for a few games again. Would you take Tebow or another QB or take another position of need.

[Flbillsfan#1]

OK if you were the Bills GM would you pick Tebow number 10 overall. Just to juice it up lets say if you don't pick him at number 10 there is no way you would be able to get him some other point in the draft. I know its unfair and hared to make the pick not knowing things like draft stock and the way he looks in his senior year. But its a hypothetical so I wouldn't over think it too much.

 

Also Trent is coming off a SO-SO season looked good at times, looked bad at times and got injured for a few games again. Would you take Tebow or another QB or take another position of need.

If Trent does not PROVE he is the man this year, unless one of the other College QB's has just a phenominal year, Yeah I would take Tebow at 10.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Can you please list the teams that run the spread option in the NFL? Unless half the league all of a sudden adopts that offense, tebag is going to do nothing as a QB at the NFL level. He can't pass the ball, and he wont be able to run over or by defenders like he does in college. I know tebag is religious, but if he tries to run like he does in college, James Harrison or Patrick Willis are going to give him a good reason to pray to God.

How many teams ran the West Coast before S.F.? The league & its RULES are CHANGING. Who is to say a team won't adopt the spread.....................Tebow can only play for ONE team. Urban Meyer has said he has talked to a few NFL Coaches about it already. I know girls like to call others NAMES, that is how they fight but I don't understand YOUR NEED to call people disparaging names. Do they teach that at the Girls school along with how to STEAL & CHEAT.

[Ramius]

How many teams ran the West Coast before S.F.? The league & its RULES are CHANGING. Who is to say a team won't adopt the spread.....................Tebow can only play for ONE team. Urban Meyer has said he has talked to a few NFL Coaches about it already. I know girls like to call others NAMES, that is how they fight but I don't understand YOUR NEED to call people disparaging names. Do they teach that at the Girls school along with how to CHEAT?

 

Do you even understand the difference between the spread (which most teams have some version of that they run a few plays per game) and the spread option (which UF runs, and which Urban Cryer ran at Utah)? It would appear not. tebag is a spread option QB, not a spread QB. No NFL team is going to adopt a gimmick spread option offense.

 

Since you love to point out the warts at certain schools, care to explain why 24 UF players have been arrested since Meyer rolled into town? He's developing quite the track record. You guys have successfully take the "Prison prep school" title away from miami. I mean, one of your players stole a credit card from a dead chick, fer christsakes.

[GOBILLS78]

Why are we talking about this? Talk about out on a limb...

[Flbillsfan#1]

Do you even understand the difference between the spread (which most teams have some version of that they run a few plays per game) and the spread option (which UF runs, and which Urban Cryer ran at Utah)? It would appear not. tebag is a spread option QB, not a spread QB. No NFL team is going to adopt a gimmick spread option offense.

 

Since you love to point out the warts at certain schools, care to explain why 24 UF players have been arrested since Meyer rolled into town? He's developing quite the track record. You guys have successfully take the "Prison prep school" title away from miami. I mean, one of your players stole a credit card from a dead chick, fer christsakes.

Do you care to respond about your penchant for calling others names like a GIRL?

[Ramius]

Do you care to respond about your penchant for calling others names like a GIRL?

 

Thank you for confirming that you do not understand the difference between the spread offense and the spread option offense. That's all i needed to know.

[Booster4324]

Do you care to respond about my penchant for calling others names like a GIRL?

 

Fixed

[Chandler#81]

Can you please list the teams that run the spread option in the NFL? Unless half the league all of a sudden adopts that offense, tebag is going to do nothing as a QB at the NFL level. He can't pass the ball, and he wont be able to run over or by defenders like he does in college. I know tebag is religious, but if he tries to run like he does in college, James Harrison or Patrick Willis are going to give him a good reason to pray to God.

 

James Harrison & Patrick Willis?

 

My money's on Tebow with these collisions.

[KRC]

How many teams ran the West Coast before S.F.?

 

It depends on your definition of the West Coast Offense. If you use the basic definition of the West Coast philosophy, then the Chargers used it first (and you could make a case for other AFL teams, as well), and it spread into the college ranks before Walsh got to SF. If you only limit it to the Walsh variation of the West Coast Offense, then the Bengals were first, before SF. Either way you look at it, SF was not the first to use it.

[K-9]

It depends on your definition of the West Coast Offense. If you use the basic definition of the West Coast philosophy, then the Chargers used it first (and you could make a case for other AFL teams, as well), and it spread into the college ranks before Walsh got to SF. If you only limit it to the Walsh variation of the West Coast Offense, then the Bengals were first, before SF. Either way you look at it, SF was not the first to use it.

 

Excellent point. Many think Walsh just dropped into S.F. from another planet with some radical new offense. But his early work with Al Davis (and the implied influence of Sid Gilman), along with building the Bengals' earlier offenses clearly showed many elements of the West Coast offense that he refined as time went on.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Tebow is just apart of the system in Florida = another Grossman in the NFL

 

Except that the entire system at Florida is completely different than when Rex Grossman played there.

 

And I'm sorry, but there's no comparing their respective levels of success in the college game.

[thebandit27]

ummm....you mean like running for lots of TDs and throwing to WRs who are constantly wide open against the stellar defensive backfields of Vandy and The Citadel?

 

Yeah, no similarities at all. But please, tell us again about all the "intangibles" that make Tebow so different from every other over-hyped college bust for the last 20 years. Talk about ridiculous!

 

Honestly, the hero worship for this guy is just laughable.

 

Of course, because we all know that the level of competition is really similar in the ACC (where Vick played) and the SEC (where Tebow plays).

 

Also, when exactly did Vick put up the kind of passing numbers that Tebow has playing against defensive 1st round picks and former NFL coaches perennially?

 

As for the comparison to Vince Young, I think Tebow can probably spell his own name--not to mention I doubt he'd threaten suicide if he lost his starting job--so that puts him several miles ahead of Young off the bat.

 

As for Tebow's credentials:

 

- 2 National Championships

- 1 Heisman Trophy

- NCAA Record for TDs in a single season

 

And as for his passing prowess:

- 2 consecutive years throwing for 25+ TDs

- Career QB Rating 170+

- Career completion percentage ~65% (64.4 in 2008, a mere 2 percentage points behind Sam Bradford)

- 4th in the nation in passer rating in 2008

- 13th in the nation in passing TDs in 2008 (30)

- 4th in the nation in passing yards per attempt in 2008 (9.2, a full yard-per-attempt better than Graham Harrell, who lead the nation in passing yards)

- 30:4 TD:INT ratio, which is better (percentage wise) than that of Sam Bradford (50:8)

 

Shall I go on, or do those items also seem "ridiculous" to you?

 

Any other bad jokes you'd like to half-a$$edly attempt to pass off as an argument?

[C.Biscuit97]

Of course, because we all know that the level of competition is really similar in the ACC (where Vick played) and the SEC (where Tebow plays).

 

Also, when exactly did Vick put up the kind of passing numbers that Tebow has playing against defensive 1st round picks and former NFL coaches perennially?

 

As for the comparison to Vince Young, I think Tebow can probably spell his own name--not to mention I doubt he'd threaten suicide if he lost his starting job--so that puts him several miles ahead of Young off the bat.

 

As for Tebow's credentials:

 

- 2 National Championships

- 1 Heisman Trophy

- NCAA Record for TDs in a single season

 

And as for his passing prowess:

- 2 consecutive years throwing for 25+ TDs

- Career QB Rating 170+

- Career completion percentage ~65% (64.4 in 2008, a mere 2 percentage points behind Sam Bradford)

- 4th in the nation in passer rating in 2008

- 13th in the nation in passing TDs in 2008 (30)

- 4th in the nation in passing yards per attempt in 2008 (9.2, a full yard-per-attempt better than Graham Harrell, who lead the nation in passing yards)

- 30:4 TD:INT ratio, which is better (percentage wise) than that of Sam Bradford (50:8)

 

Shall I go on, or do those items also seem "ridiculous" to you?

 

Any other bad jokes you'd like to half-a$$edly attempt to pass off as an argument?

 

 

I like Tebow a lot but the Vick and Young comparisons are quite valid. They were both amazing in college. Young almost singlehandedly won a national championship game with one of the most amazing performances I have ever seen. His sophomore year, he passed for over 3,000 yards and had 26 tds. He also rushed for over 1,000 yards.

 

As for Vick, he was also amazing. He took an undermanned Va tech to the national championship game. He led the nation in passing efficiency as freshman (3rd highest mark ever). Both Vick & Young left after their sophomore years and both would have probably gotten a title and a really good shot at the Heisman if they stayed.

[thebandit27]

I like Tebow a lot but the Vick and Young comparisons are quite valid. They were both amazing in college. Young almost singlehandedly won a national championship game with one of the most amazing performances I have ever seen. His sophomore year, he passed for over 3,000 yards and had 26 tds. He also rushed for over 1,000 yards.

 

As for Vick, he was also amazing. He took an undermanned Va tech to the national championship game. He led the nation in passing efficiency as freshman (3rd highest mark ever). Both Vick & Young left after their sophomore years and both would have probably gotten a title and a really good shot at the Heisman if they stayed.

 

If you want to compare Vick & Young to Tebow based on numbers alone, go right ahead, but keep in mind that Tebow plays in the SEC, where there are (perenially) 3 or 4 contenders for the National Championship (Florida, LSU, Alabama, Auburn, etc.). There's no way Vick's performance in the ACC or Young's in a Big 12 that was heavily watered-down at the time (now they've become a little more formidable, but nevertheless still not in the same class as the SEC) compare, in my opinion.

 

Regardless, even if someone was slick enough to make that sale, there's still the point that Tebow's knowledge of the game, level of intelligence, leadership, and NFL readiness (based purely upon games played at the college level, since none of the 3 played in pro style offenses) are undoubtedly superior to either of those guys.

 

So really ask yourself, in light of this information, is that comparison really valid?

 

I whole-heartedly say no.

[billsfan89]

If you want to compare Vick & Young to Tebow based on numbers alone, go right ahead, but keep in mind that Tebow plays in the SEC, where there are (perenially) 3 or 4 contenders for the National Championship (Florida, LSU, Alabama, Auburn, etc.). There's no way Vick's performance in the ACC or Young's in a Big 12 that was heavily watered-down at the time (now they've become a little more formidable, but nevertheless still not in the same class as the SEC) compare, in my opinion.

 

Regardless, even if someone was slick enough to make that sale, there's still the point that Tebow's knowledge of the game, level of intelligence, leadership, and NFL readiness (based purely upon games played at the college level, since none of the 3 played in pro style offenses) are undoubtedly superior to either of those guys.

 

So really ask yourself, in light of this information, is that comparison really valid?

 

I whole-heartedly say no.

 

I am not a huge college football guy but I think that comparison is valid. I know that the Florida team Tebow plays for is a really good team much better than Vicks team and a bit better than Vince Youngs Texas teams. So what Tebow add in his SEC competition he loses in the fact that he has a better supporting cast than those guys (Much better than what Vick had). So he faces better competition with a better team around him.

 

As for Leadership give me a break. His leadership is based off the fact that he wins he won't be able to command a team in the NFL the way he does in Florida because the guys in the NFL don't care what you have done in college. Tebow won't have that leadership in the NFL till he wins consistently so that is overstated big time. Eli Manning who is soft spoken is the Man on the Giants because he has a ring on his finger.

 

And if he doesn't play in a pro style system how much more intelligence and knowledge of the pro game can he have? I don't buy your argument at all. If you want to say he is smarter than Vick or Young in general OK I don't know that for sure but if he is than maybe he will adjust better. BUT being smarter (in general not football smarts) isn't enough to make me say the comparison is completely invalid.

 

As NFL readiness give me another break. The guy as you said doesn't play in a pro style offense and his throwing motion is no where near NFL caliber. Tebow is Vick and Young the only reason the media ignores the comparison is because he is white and a church going guy.