Mr. ChumChums Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I thought, based on the linked article (below), that this thread was worth resurrecting: http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/27/...ds-catching-on/ Hey, it's the off-season, how does everyone feel about the spread offense becoming more prominent in the NFL? Anyone else suspect (as I do) that New England is one of the teams heavily investigating it? How does this affect Tim Tebow's chances of success in the NFL? Does anyone even care about this topic? Didn't the 07-08 Pat* use a pseudo variant of the spread? I was under the impression that most NFL offenses have spread packages, but don't use it as a base formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Didn't the 07-08 Pat* use a pseudo variant of the spread? I was under the impression that most NFL offenses have spread packages, but don't use it as a base formation. You would be correct. That's because the spread offense is not some "new" creative type of offense. IIRC, the last time a full spread offense (or the closest thing to it) that achieved any kind of success was the Run 'N Shoot. Even in it's heyday, I think only about 3 teams ran it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I thought, based on the linked article (below), that this thread was worth resurrecting: http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/27/...ds-catching-on/ Hey, it's the off-season, how does everyone feel about the spread offense becoming more prominent in the NFL? Anyone else suspect (as I do) that New England is one of the teams heavily investigating it? How does this affect Tim Tebow's chances of success in the NFL? Does anyone even care about this topic? There is a gigantic difference between the spread option, and the spread. Tebow runs the former, and that type of offense will never catch on in the NFL. Take away Tebow's ability to run (which NFL linebackers will do), and he is nothing more than a marginal QB. He doesn't throw the ball nearly as well as the top college QB prospects. He has awkward mechanics that often result in wobbly lame-duck passes. A team might draft him to play H-back or TE, but they won't draft him to be what the NFL is all about, a pocket passer. No one will draft him in the 1st round (unless it's the Raiders). Teams have learned their lessons about taking QBs with the marginal ability to pass the ball, but excel in running around. (Mike Vick, Vince Young, etc..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I live in Fla and it seems like the guy can do nothing wrong. He is home schooled and does missionary work overseas. He reminds me of a much bigger version of Doug Flutie. Say what you want, all the guy does is win. We have not had a passer of merit since Kelly. Tebow has the mental toughness of Kelly. Tebow has the size to do well in the frigid northeast. We could do worse at qb. There is a reason why Tebow isn't viewed by pro scouts as a legitimate pro QB. A lot think he is a perfect fit as a wildcat QB but he just does not have the skills needed in order to succeed as an every down QB. A lot of people get seduced by his college winning and personality (I think if he was black though no one would care about how religious he was). I would take Trent Edwards over Tebow. Tebow is smoke and mirrors and I hope a team is dumb enough to pick him up in the first round as a long term answer at QB because they will be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 There is a gigantic difference between the spread option, and the spread. Tebow runs the former, and that type of offense will never catch on in the NFL. Take away Tebow's ability to run (which NFL linebackers will do), and he is nothing more than a marginal QB. He doesn't throw the ball nearly as well as the top college QB prospects. He has awkward mechanics that often result in wobbly lame-duck passes. A team might draft him to play H-back or TE, but they won't draft him to be what the NFL is all about, a pocket passer. No one will draft him in the 1st round (unless it's the Raiders). Teams have learned their lessons about taking QBs with the marginal ability to pass the ball, but excel in running around. (Mike Vick, Vince Young, etc..) Is it okay if I resurrect this thread if & when he goes in the top ten (and not to the Raiders)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Is it okay if I resurrect this thread if & when he goes in the top ten (and not to the Raiders)? I don't know if he goes top 10 but I would bet the Farm he is a 1st round pick at QB. Some people on this board are a JOKE. They have seen VERY LITTLE of his play, yet are ready to pronounce him a marginal QB. Hell he still has an entire year of College ball to play. He may never have the best arm in the NFL, but he is intelligent, a LEADER, & a WINNER. If he wins another Championship, he may well go in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I don't know if he goes top 10 but I would bet the Farm he is a 1st round pick at QB. Some people on this board are a JOKE. They have seen VERY LITTLE of his play, yet are ready to pronounce him a marginal QB. Hell he still has an entire year of College ball to play. He may never have the best arm in the NFL, but he is intelligent, a LEADER, & a WINNER. If he wins another Championship, he may well go in the top 10. He's not a passer. His mechanics and his passing ability are absolute garbage. His "throw to an area and let the WR outfight the DB for the ball" is a sure fire path to failure in the NFL. The guy's skill set does not translate to being a successful NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I don't know if he goes top 10 but I would bet the Farm he is a 1st round pick at QB. Some people on this board are a JOKE. They have seen VERY LITTLE of his play, yet are ready to pronounce him a marginal QB. Hell he still has an entire year of College ball to play. He may never have the best arm in the NFL, but he is intelligent, a LEADER, & a WINNER. If he wins another Championship, he may well go in the top 10. People have seen plenty of Tim Tebow. He is a marquee college player - an excellent, entertaining college player, so Gators' games are featured by the broadcasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Tebow could be successful running a spread offense from the Shotgun in the NFL. But he would not excel in a general, 3 step drop system IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 He's not a passer. His mechanics and his passing ability are absolute garbage. His "throw to an area and let the WR outfight the DB for the ball" is a sure fire path to failure in the NFL. The guy's skill set does not translate to being a successful NFL QB. there's a pretty good football coach that disagrees with you: http://blogs.usatoday.com/thehuddle/2009/0...n-tebow-is.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 there's a pretty good football coach that disagrees with you: http://blogs.usatoday.com/thehuddle/2009/0...n-tebow-is.html First of all, Gruden is about as weird of a coach as they come. Secondly, Gruden thinks he can establish a spread-option in the pros. That is why he would take Tebow, however, Gruden is off his rocker if he thinks it would work. Gruden might be salivating over him, because of some gimmick offense he might implement, but the NFL scouts are all panning Tebow. Of course, Gruden thinks every QB is good. That's why he signs 7-8 of them every year. He's a terrible evaluator of QB talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Should the Bills still draft him in the top 10 next year if they've signed Vick?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 He's not a passer. His mechanics and his passing ability are absolute garbage. His "throw to an area and let the WR outfight the DB for the ball" is a sure fire path to failure in the NFL. The guy's skill set does not translate to being a successful NFL QB. You do realize it is very common in the NFL for a QB to throw to an area he anticipates his receiver to be don't you? Your problem is you are used to watching that CHEATING Girls school on Saturdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I don't know if he goes top 10 but I would bet the Farm he is a 1st round pick at QB. Some people on this board are a JOKE. They have seen VERY LITTLE of his play, yet are ready to pronounce him a marginal QB. Hell he still has an entire year of College ball to play. He may never have the best arm in the NFL, but he is intelligent, a LEADER, & a WINNER. If he wins another Championship, he may well go in the top 10. I think some team is going to fall in love with him. BUT no team is going to shell out a top 20 pick to get him. The highest I see a team taking him would be in the lower first round or the high second round. I could see a dumb owner falling head over heels for him and either trading up into the latter first or early second just to get him. It reeks of a move Danny Snyder or AL Davis would make. Also a Leader and a Winner at the College level makes no difference at the NFL level. Its easy to get college kids to fall in line because the coach tells them to follow you and you already have a ring on that level. If Tebow tries to yell or inspire a guy like TO or anyone in the NFL he will get laughed at. You need to show in the NFL that you have what it takes to at least take a team to the playoffs consistently. Even A guy like McNabb or Hasselback can yell at a wide receiver because they have won at this level. Tebow needs to win before he can be a leader and the NFL is a level where most think he can't win. Tebow = Big fish little pond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 First of all, Gruden is about as weird of a coach as they come. Secondly, Gruden thinks he can establish a spread-option in the pros. That is why he would take Tebow, however, Gruden is off his rocker if he thinks it would work. Gruden might be salivating over him, because of some gimmick offense he might implement, but the NFL scouts are all panning Tebow. Of course, Gruden thinks every QB is good. That's why he signs 7-8 of them every year. He's a terrible evaluator of QB talent. Obviously, Gruden needs to consult with you, Fingon. Tell me, how closely were you advising him during the Buccaneers' Superbowl run in 2002? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 First of all, Gruden is about as weird of a coach as they come. Secondly, Gruden thinks he can establish a spread-option in the pros. That is why he would take Tebow, however, Gruden is off his rocker if he thinks it would work. Gruden might be salivating over him, because of some gimmick offense he might implement, but the NFL scouts are all panning Tebow. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think some team is going to fall in love with him. BUT no team is going to shell out a top 20 pick to get him. The highest I see a team taking him would be in the lower first round or the high second round. I could see a dumb owner falling head over heels for him and either trading up into the latter first or early second just to get him. It reeks of a move Danny Snyder or AL Davis would make. Also a Leader and a Winner at the College level makes no difference at the NFL level. Its easy to get college kids to fall in line because the coach tells them to follow you and you already have a ring on that level. If Tebow tries to yell or inspire a guy like TO or anyone in the NFL he will get laughed at. You need to show in the NFL that you have what it takes to at least take a team to the playoffs consistently. Even A guy like McNabb or Hasselback can yell at a wide receiver because they have won at this level. Tebow needs to win before he can be a leader and the NFL is a level where most think he can't win. Tebow = Big fish little pond. I think where Tebow is drafted will depend on how he develops & plays this year. He has a LEADERS personality. That can't really be taught, you either have it or you don't. He showed his leadership by putting the loss to Ol Miss on his own shoulders last year, not by calling others out. He also put the team on his shoulders & carried Florida to the Championship Game when Harvin was injured & could not play. To all that think NFL LB's will kill Tebow, he is as big and tough as most RB's in the NFL & unlike Trent Edwards.................he does not get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think where Tebow is drafted will depend on how he develops & plays this year. He has a LEADERS personality. That can't really be taught, you either have it or you don't. He showed his leadership by putting the loss to Ol Miss on his own shoulders last year, not by calling others out. He also put the team on his shoulders & carried Florida to the Championship Game when Harvin was injured & could not play. To all that think NFL LB's will kill Tebow, he is as big and tough as most RB's in the NFL & unlike Trent Edwards.................he does not get injured. Eli Manning is a soft spoken guy but he is no the Man on the Giants. Why because he won a SuperBowl. I think you are overstating the whole Leaders personality thing. While certain guys have more leadership qualities that make them able to harness the ability of others it still comes down to what have you done for me lately. Tebow can't yell at anyone in the NFL till he takes a team deep into the playoffs. If I was a guy in the huddle and this guy who has done nothing in the NFL is trying to inspire or yell at me I probably would think Hey kid its the NFL your not in college talk is cheap do something. If Tebow pins the loss on himself or others who cares all the media wants to know is will you win the next game and if you don't than they will kill you for that loss. I think the whole NFL LB's will kill Tebow is more from the he is not going to be able to run the ball as effectively because the LB's are bigger stronger and faster. If I was a team I would only draft Tebow under 1 situation. If I was a team with an ageing QB who while not ancient only has like 3-4 years at a high level left. AND I had a coaching staff that could use him in the Wild Cat in the short term and take those years and develop him into a more polished QB for the long term. And I would only spend at most a 2nd round pick on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Eli Manning is a soft spoken guy but he is no the Man on the Giants. Why because he won a SuperBowl. I think you are overstating the whole Leaders personality thing. While certain guys have more leadership qualities that make them able to harness the ability of others it still comes down to what have you done for me lately. Tebow can't yell at anyone in the NFL till he takes a team deep into the playoffs. If I was a guy in the huddle and this guy who has done nothing in the NFL is trying to inspire or yell at me I probably would think Hey kid its the NFL your not in college talk is cheap do something. If Tebow pins the loss on himself or others who cares all the media wants to know is will you win the next game and if you don't than they will kill you for that loss. I think the whole NFL LB's will kill Tebow is more from the he is not going to be able to run the ball as effectively because the LB's are bigger stronger and faster. If I was a team I would only draft Tebow under 1 situation. If I was a team with an ageing QB who while not ancient only has like 3-4 years at a high level left. AND I had a coaching staff that could use him in the Wild Cat in the short term and take those years and develop him into a more polished QB for the long term. And I would only spend at most a 2nd round pick on the guy. You miss the point about leadership. Tebow will not yell at anyone. That is not his style. He will lead by example. As someone already pointed out, Pat White was a 2nd rnd pick & he is no Tim Tebow. Unless something like an injury happens, Tebow will be a 1st round pick the only question is how high in the 1st he goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Link? NFL scouts and general managers love Tebow's production and leadership skills, but some have long been alarmed by his slow and sometimes unorthodox throwing motion. But some NFL scouts are still perplexed about where Tebow will play in the NFL. At 6-foot-3 and 245 pounds, Tebow is big enough and strong enough to play other positions. Some NFL scouts look at Tebow and see a potential fullback or tight end. odd McShay, an ESPN NFL draft analyst and director of college football scouting for Scouts Inc., doesn't project Tebow as a first-round selection in his 2010 mock draft. McShay projects quarterbacks Sam Bradford of Oklahoma and Colt McCoy of Texas as top-10 selections. "Tebow's release is a bit three-quarter, which is not ideal," McShay said. "The bigger issue is the slowness of his release. I have him projected as a second-to-third round prospect right now, but he can make big strides as a senior. Much like Pat White, Tebow will be drafted as a QB that could play another position on offense (H-back type?) and possibly a slash-role of both. We really haven't changed anything about my throwing motion. What we've really worked on is my footwork and drops and making sure I get everything into my throws. - Tim Tebow Yeah, scouts are "alarmed" by his slow release, and throwing motion. Yet, he is doing nothing to change them. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/stor...&id=4178702 Mike Mayock on Tim Tebow being like Vince Young "In a nutshell, I thought Vince [Young] was a winner ... I thought he was the kind of kid who made the people around him better. But I wasn't sure he was ever going to be able to pass the ball from the pocket well enough to lead an NFL team to a Super Bowl. Right now, I wonder the same thing about Tebow. ... I would struggle as an NFL general manager drafting either guy [Tebow or Young] .... That's me, though. Whether it's Tebow or Young, you've got to completely retailor your offense to take advantage of what they do best. And in the event of an injury, is the next guy the same kind of guy?" http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2007/12/14/mike-ma...of-vince-young/ ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said NFL scouts are "scared to death" of Tebow's motion that in the past might have resembled a windmill. "In the NFL, cornerbacks are going to read those and get the jumps quickly," McShay said. Other scouts speak of potential accuracy problems http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/coll...0,3041309.story Shall i go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts