K-9 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 good point with the talent level, but these schemes in time will also evolve, new wrinkles will be added to counteract the defensive adjustments. as far as the pistol, it is just an updated version of a single wing offense. the only difference is that the ball is always snapped to the qb instead being snapped to a spinning fullback (which the qb often resembles in this offense), or another man in motion. these new offenses will be fun to watch and i hope more teams attempt them. i would like to see the bills do more than what they do. That's a HUGE difference though. Putting the ball into your QBs hands is critical because the D HAS to respect both elements. The other key difference is that it's run using three WRs to spread a D. GO BILLS!!!
SWVABillsFan Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 People, I personally don't think he projects to well as an NFL QB. If we are dreaming about QB's that we won't get anyway, Colt McCoy gets my nod.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I have a question for all Tebow fans that has been bothering me: Despite all of the success that the "Sunshine Showdown" schools (Miami, UF, and FSU) have have since 1989, including all those prolific offenses, can anyone think of ONE QB from any of those three programs since 1989 (the year that Steve Walsh was drafted and projected to be better than Troy Aikman) who has turned into a successful starting pro QB? I have to say I can't think of one, though I can think of several who busted, including Walsh (who became a journeyman with Chicago, admittedly), Gino Toretta, Danny Wurffel, Ken Dorsey.... Anyone want to help me out? That being said, I think there is a lot to be said for the decline of FL QBs being connected to the Florida schools abandoning pro-style offenses (in which Kelly, Kosar, and even Testaverde were successfully groomed for the pros) in favor of the gimmicky spread offenses that work well in college with their wide talent disparities, but fail in the pros. I am open to being educated here....
Trader Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I agree on Tebow. I also disagree with early mocks that have him going late in the first round. The guy has top 15 value written all over him (probably top 10). He is way better that Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn when they came out. That said, I'm hoping the Bills aren't picking that high in 2010. If they are, Tebow would be a great pick.
bizell Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 unless Meyer actually starts using a pro-style offense instead of that shotgun spread stuff at florida, then tim tebow has no chance at success as a nfl quarterback.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 You've obviously never seen him attempt to throw a pass. Yes, the guy has won a lot at florida and has had a huge amount of success as a collegiate player running urban cryer's system. His game doesn't translate to success as an NFL QB. He's not going to be bigger and faster than almost everyone like he is at UF. DLs and LBs will be salivating at the thought of decapitating him on one of his patented runs. As TE or an H-back with the right coach, sure he could have success in the NFL. He'd probably do well throwing the ball 5 times per game as a wildcat QB. But as a regular QB? hell no. It all comes down to, have you ever seen his pass attempts? When the guy tries to throw the ball, you'd swear there are coaches on the sideline yelling, "Pull." What would you know? You are used to watching a GIRLS School play football.................& not VERY WELL at that for a number of years now. I have watched MUCH more of Tebow than you I would wager, His passing has IMPROVED every year & he has one more year to go before the Draft. You are saying he is not big enough to play QB in the NFL...........................but he is big enough to be a TE or H-back? That is just CRAZY.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Lol, is that why all the scouts think hes a mid round pick? Put up a link with EVEN ONE scout that thinks Tebow is a midround pick NEXT Year.
agilen Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Why is it that every Tebow man-love post starts out with "I'm from Florida, and I think this Tebow guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread!" Oh, I know why. Because the rest of us don't see it through gator-colored glasses, and know that gimmick college QBs don't do well in the NFL. I'll pass on Tebow.
Arkady Renko Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I have a question for all Tebow fans that has been bothering me: Despite all of the success that the "Sunshine Showdown" schools (Miami, UF, and FSU) have have since 1989, including all those prolific offenses, can anyone think of ONE QB from any of those three programs since 1989 (the year that Steve Walsh was drafted and projected to be better than Troy Aikman) who has turned into a successful starting pro QB? I have to say I can't think of one, though I can think of several who busted, including Walsh (who became a journeyman with Chicago, admittedly), Gino Toretta, Danny Wurffel, Ken Dorsey.... Anyone want to help me out? That being said, I think there is a lot to be said for the decline of FL QBs being connected to the Florida schools abandoning pro-style offenses (in which Kelly, Kosar, and even Testaverde were successfully groomed for the pros) in favor of the gimmicky spread offenses that work well in college with their wide talent disparities, but fail in the pros. I am open to being educated here.... I hope someone can answer your question, it is a good one.
Fingon Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Put up a link with EVEN ONE scout that thinks Tebow is a midround pick NEXT Year. Why would anything change? Until Tebow can prove to scouts that he has fixed his horrendous throwing motions, slow release, and lame duck passes.... his draft status won't change.
Cru Jones Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I live in Fla and it seems like the guy can do nothing wrong. He is home schooled and does missionary work overseas. He reminds me of a much bigger version of Doug Flutie. Say what you want, all the guy does is win. We have not had a passer of merit since Kelly. Tebow has the mental toughness of Kelly. Tebow has the size to do well in the frigid northeast. We could do worse at qb. Great Call!!! I dont see one reason why he wont be a great NFL QB. He's Been so good in college! signed, Ty Detmer Gino Toretta Danny Wuerfful Eric Crouch Ken Dorsey Doug Flutie Jason White Tommy Fraizer Ron Paulus Charlie Ward Troy Smith Steve Spurrier Chris Weinke
UpstateSwagger Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 How 'bout a little respect for the intangibles, gentleman. Hell, I have little or no preference here (I think we may have our guy in Trent) but don't compare Tebow to Vince Young, and don't make it sound as though he's Eric Crouch and won a Heisman with 10 TDs and 12 INTs. As for the intangibles: The kid clearly has limitless leadership skills. He is just about everything you could hope for character wise. He seemingly doesn't get hurt. He appears to be a machine as far as training and preparation. His faith is an absolute asset, given how religious the average NFL player is. And for all you knuckleheads, who may have had the SEC run up your asses the last few years, a few facts to set things straight: FACT: Tebow has a career QB rating of over 172. FACT: Tebow's lowest completion percentage for a year is over 64%. FACT: In his two years as a starter, he has thrown for a combined 62 TDs to 10 INTs, against the best defensive competition in the country. Take a look at how many first-round defensive players the SEC turns out every year. FACT: In addition to his very stellar passing numbers, Tebow has a chance to break the SEC RUSHING TD record this year. Yes, that includes Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson. FACT: Tebow has a damn good chance of becoming the most decorated football player in college history. Now, I can understand people being unreceptive to someone like Tebow, and hell, I can understand some of the skepticism with his game, but give me a break with all that "translates to a TE or h-back" bullsh!t. That is myopic and just plain ridiculous. I'm not sure his name on here, although I remember that he has a really stupid avatar of a stick figure poking itself in the eye, said something along the lines of " Have you ever seen him throw a ball? It's terrible. It looks like a coach says 'pull.'" Shut up, stick-figure-guy. That's just stupid. I believe you also said Drew Willy was a better pro-prospect. Get a clue. But, I'll beat you to it: "All the scouts say he sucks." We'll see when draft-time rolls around next year. Who would you rather have leading your huddle? I can understand the criticism, but there have been plenty of QBs, without the off-the-chart measurables, who have been franchise players in this league. INTANGIBLES ladies: Some QBs just have that necessary moxie. At the very least, I think it's silly to write this kid off before his senior year has even begun.
oddoublee Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Vince Young has the IQ somewhere between a beet and cabbage and maturity level of a 2 year old. that is irrelevant pertaining to mjohns point-he is dead on. most QB's at the college level(especially big programs), all they do is win. he has goofy mechanics, and always throws to a wide open player-plus college D's play him way up due to his threat to run ASAP after the snap. system QB written all over this guy. with that said-i love watching him play college ball. very exciting.
Jeffery Lester Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 We must be bored. That dead time between the draft and OTA's. What other reason do we have to talk about a Florida gator on this board. Trent is our QB, I would much rather talk about him than a college player. I do not care about Tim Tebow (I wish you luck in all of your endeavors). But I really do not care I will chalk this one up to boredom.
dib Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 and he didnt go in the draft because he loves the college game so much. Please, he tries half the crap he does in college against inferior teams against the pros, and they'll cart him off in a body bag.
Mike in Syracuse Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I don't think anyone knows how Tebow will project as a NFL quarterback. He has some attributes that coaches love and some limitations that would push other QB's into the very late rounds of the draft. Maybe not even get drafted at all. One thing is for certain, a large portion of Tebow's game centers around his toughness and his ability to lower his head and run. It's that "toughness" that makes him so endearing to Gator's fans. If he tries that at the NFL level he might not make it out of the preseason.
thebandit27 Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I have a question for all Tebow fans that has been bothering me: Despite all of the success that the "Sunshine Showdown" schools (Miami, UF, and FSU) have have since 1989, including all those prolific offenses, can anyone think of ONE QB from any of those three programs since 1989 (the year that Steve Walsh was drafted and projected to be better than Troy Aikman) who has turned into a successful starting pro QB? I have to say I can't think of one, though I can think of several who busted, including Walsh (who became a journeyman with Chicago, admittedly), Gino Toretta, Danny Wurffel, Ken Dorsey.... Anyone want to help me out? That being said, I think there is a lot to be said for the decline of FL QBs being connected to the Florida schools abandoning pro-style offenses (in which Kelly, Kosar, and even Testaverde were successfully groomed for the pros) in favor of the gimmicky spread offenses that work well in college with their wide talent disparities, but fail in the pros. I am open to being educated here.... I must question why--if you're going to go all the way back to the 80's--you'd limit it to '89? Why not go back another 10 years? Then you'd have guys like Jim Kelly, Vinny Testaverde, Bernie Kosar, etc. Also, when was the last time a Vanderbilt QB played well in the pros? Does that mean Jay Cutler isn't great? Additionally, the run of lousy NFL play from Michigan QBs was staggering during the 1990s, then a 6th-round pick of New England in the 2000 draft changed all that. My point is, the past doesn't always predict the future. Tebow's got as good a chance as anyone else to play in the pros, as long as his pro coaching staff is willing to put him in situations to use his skill set.
Big Curt Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 That's an insult to beets! [/quote Both you guys are need your head examined. Vince Young is one of the all-time best college players in history. He also won the rookie of the year and made the Pro Bowl his first year. A stupid player can't do that, he is just struggling with ihs personal life but will be back strong as ever!
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I must question why--if you're going to go all the way back to the 80's--you'd limit it to '89? Why not go back another 10 years? Then you'd have guys like Jim Kelly, Vinny Testaverde, Bernie Kosar, etc. Also, when was the last time a Vanderbilt QB played well in the pros? Does that mean Jay Cutler isn't great? Additionally, the run of lousy NFL play from Michigan QBs was staggering during the 1990s, then a 6th-round pick of New England in the 2000 draft changed all that. My point is, the past doesn't always predict the future. Tebow's got as good a chance as anyone else to play in the pros, as long as his pro coaching staff is willing to put him in situations to use his skill set. Actually, in my post I thought I explained why I chose 1989, and I also noted specificaly that I was asking about the Florida QBs. I even mentioned Kelly, Kosar, and Testaverde in my post; did you not read past the first sentence? They all succeeded when Miami ran a pro-style offense, and were well-prepared to play in the NFL. Since 1989 with Steve Walsh going high in the first round, I cannot think of a single QB from one of those big FL schools being a success in the NFL. I find that fascinating, considering that those three schools have had such high powered offenses in the past 20 years, and which leads me to wonder whether the systems those teams have run have worked against producing successful pro QBs. I don't need you to tell me that the past does not predict the future. Though I must say that there can be correlations between past perfomance and the present. To respond to your own examples, both Cutler and Brady played in pro-style offenses in college, not in gimmicky spreads, which would actually come closer to proving my own point.... Tebow may indeed be a success in the pros, though I have a hard time believing that any NFL team will retool itself to fit his skill set. He will need to do at least as much retooling. Time will tell.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I hope someone can answer your question, it is a good one. No one has, and I think that no one will. I would even go further, and ask for the fun of it if any QB from a college program that ran some kind of pass-wacky spread (Houston, Texas Tech, Hawaii) has succeeded in the NFL.... Of course QBs should have some mobility, but it is interesting to note that in the long run even the most mobile QBs in the NFL have had to be able to stand in the pocket and make the hard throws if they wanted to succeed. This simple historical fact is consistently ignored by commentators and message board posters who keep wanting to proclaim the transformation of the QB.
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