Magox Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Not according to the reports from actual scouts, that I've read. There are plenty of winners in college football, and guess what? There are plenty of people who throw "good" balls. Guess what? Drew Willy is a better pocket-QB prospect than Tebow. ummm Tebow will be a much better pro than Drew Willy. You can take that to the bank. Tebow won't be your classic pocket passer, that is not how he will be best used. You say there are plenty of winners out there, but not at the level that Tebow is. Listen, I'm not a Tebow homer or anything of the sort, I actually root against just about every Gator game, but it is what it is. The guy is special, special in the sense of that he is a natural born leader. I admire that about him, I don't believe I have seen a player in the college ranks that has had such a strong impact as far as leadership is concerned more so than Tebow. He willed that team to a National championship, sure there were many players on that team that contributed in a big way, but he is the unquestioned captain of that team. As far as his throwing ability, there is nothing special about it. He has an average arm with average accuracy. But one thing that I have noticed is that his accuracy and the ball that he throws has improved dramatically from his freshman year. So that tells me that he has worked on it in a big way. As another poster said, watch out for next year. I gaurantee you that his throwing ability will improve markedly from this year. He is a player that is trending upward, and the kind of desire, passion, work ethic, leadership and willingness to improve, he definitely is not someone I would bet against. I don't believe he will be the first QB taken in the draft, because he is not a true pocket passer, and that is what franchise QB's normally are. However I do see him being an early to mid first day draft choice, because scouts will see something that you don't. Obviously they didn't like Drew Willy that much, now did they? We'll see where Tebow gets drafted. I'm sure I will be right.
bflobarry Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Some "fans" we have: "Oh my God, when Trent sucks this year, what WILL we do?" BLah, blah, blah. Try this one out for size: Believe in our YOUNG, bright, committed kid, and give him a chance to grow into the role. He has LESS than 2 years under this belt. Eli barely hit his srtide into year 4. Trent had some poor games last year; some good ones too. Let's get behind him. This doom and gloom is friggin' annoying. Have a little faith, kids!!
Kelly the Dog Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 ummm Tebow will be a much better pro than Drew Willy. You can take that to the bank. Tebow won't be your classic pocket passer, that is not how he will be best used. You say there are plenty of winners out there, but not at the level that Tebow is. Listen, I'm not a Tebow homer or anything of the sort, I actually root against just about every Gator game, but it is what it is. The guy is special, special in the sense of that he is a natural born leader. I admire that about him, I don't believe I have seen a player in the college ranks that has had such a strong impact as far as leadership is concerned more so than Tebow. He willed that team to a National championship, sure there were many players on that team that contributed in a big way, but he is the unquestioned captain of that team. Vince Young. I am not saying that Tebow will be good or bad in the pros, I really don't have a good feeling either way. If I had to say, I would predict no. I doubt very much he'll be a #1 pick. But Vince Young was every bit the leader that Tebow was and would will his team to victories and national championships. But his game doesn't translate to the pros. It has severe limitations, and when you get to the pros, there are older, more mature, bigger leaders than you, with better abilities.
K-9 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Some "fans" we have: "Oh my God, when Trent sucks this year, what WILL we do?" BLah, blah, blah. Try this one out for size: Believe in our YOUNG, bright, committed kid, and give him a chance to grow into the role. He has LESS than 2 years under this belt. Eli barely hit his srtide into year 4. Trent had some poor games last year; some good ones too. Let's get behind him. This doom and gloom is friggin' annoying. Have a little faith, kids!! Good post! If this BB were around in 1983 Kelly would have been skewered for spurning us and then skewered again after each growing pain he had when he arrived. And that was AFTER he had 3 years of pro football under his belt. These people are just warmin' up for the next QB whipping boy. GO BILLS!!!
Magox Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Vince Young. I am not saying that Tebow will be good or bad in the pros, I really don't have a good feeling either way. If I had to say, I would predict no. I doubt very much he'll be a #1 pick. But Vince Young was every bit the leader that Tebow was and would will his team to victories and national championships. But his game doesn't translate to the pros. It has severe limitations, and when you get to the pros, there are older, more mature, bigger leaders than you, with better abilities. One big difference between Tebow and Young. Young is a headcase, Tebow is at the opposite spectrum in regards to his mental stability. Let's not forget, Young was good enough to make it to the Probowl when his head was straight, and led them to lots of victories. Right?
Fan in Chicago Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Some "fans" we have: "Oh my God, when Trent sucks this year, what WILL we do?" BLah, blah, blah. Try this one out for size: Believe in our YOUNG, bright, committed kid, and give him a chance to grow into the role. He has LESS than 2 years under this belt. Eli barely hit his srtide into year 4. Trent had some poor games last year; some good ones too. Let's get behind him. This doom and gloom is friggin' annoying. Have a little faith, kids!! While I don't particularly enjoy re-hashing the same discussion over and over again, the question raised by the OP is legitimate and should be on several people's mind. First of all, this may be his make or break year. Eli Manning blossomed in his 4th year but I don't believe we have that luxury. The reason is that we have beefed up our lines in this year's draft and do not expect them to be dominating this year. So next year will be when we make a serious run at going deep in the playoffs. Trent has to show significant progress this year to show that he is capable of taking the team to the next level. Results so far have been mixed and this year there should be no excuses. Unless ofcourse our OL is a sieve and he gets bashed out of his mind due to lack of adequate protection. Secondly, questioning our players ability does not make one any less of a fan than someone who supports them without analysis. Lastly, we are all behind him - the skeptics and fanboys alike. Wondering what the team does should he fail does not imply I do not support him.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 One big difference between Tebow and Young. Young is a headcase, Tebow is at the opposite spectrum in regards to his mental stability. Let's not forget, Young was good enough to make it to the Probowl when his head was straight, and led them to lots of victories. Right? And was unable to complete a bunch of NFL legitimate passes necessary to keep it up. That's what happens in this league. There was no way he was going to keep playing like that because the defenses would learn how to stop it. I agree that Tebow seems to have his head on straight, but I still don't see how his game translates to the NFL, and I can't really think of a QB in the last 30 years or so who was able to win consistently without those abilities. Even Trent Dilfer had an NFL arm. Back in the 60s and earlier, guys like Joe Kapp could be solid NFL quarterbacks without the physical gifts, but I think that defenses have caught up with those kinds of players and you just can't get away with it anymore. They're too fast and too good. The same reason that I always thought no way would Matt Leinart would be good. He had it all: He was very accurate, a great leader, could read defenses, win big games, make good decisions, etc. He just had two problems, both of which had to do with speed: 1] He didn't have the arm strength to get the ball downfield so the speed of the NFL LBs and DBs negated his accuracy. And 2] everything he did was a half second slow: He couldn't get the ball downfield, he couldn't get the ball out of his hand fast enough from the time he saw his target, he couldn't avoid the rush/big hits because he was a bit lumbering.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Not according to the reports from actual scouts, that I've read. There are plenty of winners in college football, and guess what? There are plenty of people who throw "good" balls. Guess what? Drew Willy is a better pocket-QB prospect than Tebow. Provide a LINK to what "actual NFL team scouts" have said about Tebow. The SAME people that POO POO Trents arm issues are the ones saying Tebow will not make it because of his arm. Guess what.............. Tebow can already throw the ball BETTER than Trent, & he has ONE more year in COLLEGE to further develop his skills.
billsfreak Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Some "fans" we have: "Oh my God, when Trent sucks this year, what WILL we do?" BLah, blah, blah. Try this one out for size: Believe in our YOUNG, bright, committed kid, and give him a chance to grow into the role. He has LESS than 2 years under this belt. Eli barely hit his srtide into year 4. Trent had some poor games last year; some good ones too. Let's get behind him. This doom and gloom is friggin' annoying. Have a little faith, kids!! I somewhat agree with you and to be truthful, I am as worried about the OL as I am about Trent, which comes back to worrying about Trent's performance. A young QB needs alot of things around him working well for him to perform well. He has a few more weapons now, but the biggest question is whether he will have the time to get the ball to them, not whether he as the physical or mental ability to get the ball to them. He doesn't have all the tools, but not many do. He has the smarts and the calm in the pocket. He may be lacking a little in the arm strength, but if he develops right and the team puts the tools around him, he can be successful.
Magox Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 And was unable to complete a bunch of NFL legitimate passes necessary to keep it up. That's what happens in this league. There was no way he was going to keep playing like that because the defenses would learn how to stop it. I agree that Tebow seems to have his head on straight, but I still don't see how his game translates to the NFL, and I can't really think of a QB in the last 30 years or so who was able to win consistently without those abilities. Even Trent Dilfer had an NFL arm. Back in the 60s and earlier, guys like Joe Kapp could be solid NFL quarterbacks without the physical gifts, but I think that defenses have caught up with those kinds of players and you just can't get away with it anymore. They're too fast and too good. The same reason that I always thought no way would Matt Leinart would be good. He had it all: He was very accurate, a great leader, could read defenses, win big games, make good decisions, etc. He just had two problems, both of which had to do with speed: 1] He didn't have the arm strength to get the ball downfield so the speed of the NFL LBs and DBs negated his accuracy. And 2] everything he did was a half second slow: He couldn't get the ball downfield, he couldn't get the ball out of his hand fast enough from the time he saw his target, he couldn't avoid the rush/big hits because he was a bit lumbering. I won't pretend to say that Tebow has got a great arm or accuracy, but he is improving. I will also say that most people I believe undervalue his ability to throw the ball. I think his reputation as a great runner has distorted the reality of his actual throwing ability. I also at one point thought the same way, but after watching more of his games last year, I noticed that he really isn't a bad passer at all. His arm strength was not weak, his accuracy wasn't bad, and it definitely was much improved from the year before. There is little doubt in my mind that he will continue to improve as a passer. I came to a realization last year, that this guy is something special. Special in the sense that he is not just a very good leader, but a leader that doesn't come along to often. When they lost that game early in the season last year, he went up in front of the press and told the entire media, fans and teammates, that he wasn't going to let them down. For me, that was big, and what was the biggest thing about it was that he backed it up. Here is a link to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96vAbtpakLg Here is what Brandon Spikes said of his speech after the season: "I felt like he was a prophet for saying it," linebacker Brandon Spikes said. "He just said it and we got it done. He was a prophet." Here is what an opponent from Alabama said about him: I mean, you probably won't find too many players to do that," Alabama defensive back Rashad Johnson said. "You can just tell their team drives off of him and his passion for the game." Like I said earlier, I am not a Gator fan, I hardly ever root for them, I just think that Tebow is one hell of a football player that knows how to lead. My guess is that he will have a successful pro career.
Magox Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Provide a LINK to what "actual NFL team scouts" have said about Tebow. The SAME people that POO POO Trents arm issues are the ones saying Tebow will not make it because of his arm. Guess what.............. Tebow can already throw the ball BETTER than Trent, & he has ONE more year in COLLEGE to further develop his skills. No he does not throw the ball better than Trent. Let's not get silly here. We know you love JP and that you are bitter about him not being here anymore, but try not to distort the obvious ok?
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 And was unable to complete a bunch of NFL legitimate passes necessary to keep it up. That's what happens in this league. There was no way he was going to keep playing like that because the defenses would learn how to stop it. I agree that Tebow seems to have his head on straight, but I still don't see how his game translates to the NFL, and I can't really think of a QB in the last 30 years or so who was able to win consistently without those abilities. Even Trent Dilfer had an NFL arm. Back in the 60s and earlier, guys like Joe Kapp could be solid NFL quarterbacks without the physical gifts, but I think that defenses have caught up with those kinds of players and you just can't get away with it anymore. They're too fast and too good. The same reason that I always thought no way would Matt Leinart would be good. He had it all: He was very accurate, a great leader, could read defenses, win big games, make good decisions, etc. He just had two problems, both of which had to do with speed: 1] He didn't have the arm strength to get the ball downfield so the speed of the NFL LBs and DBs negated his accuracy. And 2] everything he did was a half second slow: He couldn't get the ball downfield, he couldn't get the ball out of his hand fast enough from the time he saw his target, he couldn't avoid the rush/big hits because he was a bit lumbering. When I saw the Tributes to Jack Kemp on the NFL Network, it reminded me of Tebow. It was said of Kemp that while he did not have the greatest stats, he was a NATURAL LEADER of men & a WINNER. His teammates were HAPPY to take the field with Jack LEADING them. Those are the Qualities Tebow possesses, and that CAN NOT be debated. NO other QB anyone tries to compare Tebow to comes close to him in that regard.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Provide a LINK to what "actual NFL team scouts" have said about Tebow. The SAME people that POO POO Trents arm issues are the ones saying Tebow will not make it because of his arm. Guess what.............. Tebow can already throw the ball BETTER than Trent, & he has ONE more year in COLLEGE to further develop his skills. I love Tebow and think he will be a player in the league, but it's hard to take your posts seriously because of your obvious bias towards Trent. And as your bromance Losman showed, it takes a lot more than a strong arm to make it in this league. BTW, no one else questions Trent's arm as much as people do on this board.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I won't pretend to say that Tebow has got a great arm or accuracy, but he is improving. I will also say that most people I believe undervalue his ability to throw the ball. I think his reputation as a great runner has distorted the reality of his actual throwing ability. I also at one point thought the same way, but after watching more of his games last year, I noticed that he really isn't a bad passer at all. His arm strength was not weak, his accuracy wasn't bad, and it definitely was much improved from the year before. There is little doubt in my mind that he will continue to improve as a passer. I came to a realization last year, that this guy is something special. Special in the sense that he is not just a very good leader, but a leader that doesn't come along to often. When they lost that game early in the season last year, he went up in front of the press and told the entire media, fans and teammates, that he wasn't going to let them down. For me, that was big, and what was the biggest thing about it was that he backed it up. Here is a link to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96vAbtpakLg Here is what Brandon Spikes said of his speech after the season: "I felt like he was a prophet for saying it," linebacker Brandon Spikes said. "He just said it and we got it done. He was a prophet." Here is what an opponent from Alabama said about him: I mean, you probably won't find too many players to do that," Alabama defensive back Rashad Johnson said. "You can just tell their team drives off of him and his passion for the game." Like I said earlier, I am not a Gator fan, I hardly ever root for them, I just think that Tebow is one hell of a football player that knows how to lead. My guess is that he will have a successful pro career. You know how many quarterbacks go into the huddle late in the game and say stuff like that? It's easy to figure out: 1] You do a little research and find all the guys who play that position in college or the pros... 2] Add them all up 3] Subtract 0 4] And there is your answer.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 No he does not throw the ball better than Trent. Let's not get silly here. We know you love JP and that you are bitter about him not being here anymore, but try not to distort the obvious ok? This is NOT about JP. It is about Tim Tebow & Trent Edwards. I believe Tebow is as accurate as Trent & has a STRONGER arm. You are welcome to your opinion, that is mine.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 When I saw the Tributes to Jack Kemp on the NFL Network, it reminded me of Tebow. It was said of Kemp that while he did not have the greatest stats, he was a NATURAL LEADER of men & a WINNER. His teammates were HAPPY to take the field with Jack LEADING them. Those are the Qualities Tebow possesses, and that CAN NOT be debated. NO other QB anyone tries to compare Tebow to comes close to him in that regard. Kemp didn't have great stats but he had very good abilities. I also said that players in the 60s were able to get away with stuff like that because the defenses weren't as complicated and fast. Kemp had a strong arm and was pretty versatile and could run. He was a little short at 6' 1" but 200 pounds and strong which was decent size for a QB then.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I love Tebow and think he will be a player in the league, but it's hard to take your posts seriously because of your obvious bias towards Trent. And as your bromance Losman showed, it takes a lot more than a strong arm to make it in this league. BTW, no one else questions Trent's arm as much as people do on this board. It is HARD to take your posts seriously because of your OBVIOUS bias FOR Trent.
Magox Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 You know how many quarterbacks go into the huddle late in the game and say stuff like that? It's easy to figure out: 1] You do a little research and find all the guys who play that position in college or the pros... 2] Add them all up 3] Subtract 0 4] And there is your answer. I guess where we disagree is the level of leadership that many people see in him. You seem to think that he is just a good leader or something along those lines. I see his leadership skills at a level that is off the charts.
Fingon Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I guess where we disagree is the level of leadership that many people see in him. You seem to think that he is just a good leader or something along those lines. I see his leadership skills at a level that is off the charts. Where does leadership get you when you can't read a defense? Where does it get you when you can't hit a receiver? Tebow plays in probably the furthest thing from an actual NFL offense, and does not have the experience throwing the ball that most QBs do. Not to mention he has average accuracy, won't be able to rely on his ability to run in the NFL, and questionable intelligence. The deck is clearly stacked against him.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I guess where we disagree is the level of leadership that many people see in him. You seem to think that he is just a good leader or something along those lines. I see his leadership skills at a level that is off the charts. Actually I think he is a great leader and a great player. I was simply commenting on stuff players say in the huddle. To me it's like girls who have hunches and say "I knew it! I knew it! I had a feeling that would happen!" All of which may be true, except for the fact they are totally disregarding the 199,835 other feelings and hunches they had that didn't come true. Qbs go into huddles every week and say "We're going to do this", "I am going to get you the ball", "we're going right down the field and scoring and no one will stop us" and it doesn't happen 95% of the time. And I think that leadership can only take you so far when you're in the NFL. You need the serious talent, too.
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