Dr. Trooth Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 They kept blabbin about how instinctive Harris is.... supposedly he diagnoses plays quickly...which makes him appear to play faster than his numbers. Freeman might have been able to be plugged in right away. Harris has to adapt to a new position and be able to take on blockers... something that he aint done a lot of. To me, the line backing is clearly the weakest link on the D. Mitchell is perhaps just a hair above average. Poz has been a disappointment. The guy they bring in to assume Fletcher's role hasan't come close to what Fletcher meant to the D. Ellison is a bum. I'd grade him out a B- as a backup WIL... as a starter a C-, being generous. Pat Thomas is a bum, and DiGeorgio is a career backup at best. Getting way off the original topic of Harris vs. Freeman.... the defense has bits & pieces... but no heart and soul. Geez... kinda characterizes the head coach.
Magox Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Going into the draft, I was hoping that Freeman would be available for us in the 5th round. Honestly I wanted us to draft him when our time came up, and when we drafted Harris, it seemed a bit odd to me. I knew who he was, and I knew he was one of their team captains of the defense and main contributors, but other than that, I didn't know too much about him. But when I saw Mayock and some of the others break him down, they said he is always making plays. He seems to be in on just about every tackle, that was one of the constants that I heard about him. Pushpile, I think what you have read about him is not that he is a physical football player, but that he isn't a big hitter. There is a difference. That's what I've read about him. All though Freeman's athletic abilities are greater than Harris, I would say that Harris is seen as a more instinctive football player by some. I would guess that is why the Bills passed up on Freeman. It's not as if they didn't know he was available, so they must of seen something that they liked about him to pick him over Freeman. Hopefully they were right.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted May 5, 2009 Author Posted May 5, 2009 All though Freeman's athletic abilities are greater than Harris, I would say that Harris is seen as a more instinctive football player by some. I would guess that is why the Bills passed up on Freeman. It's not as if they didn't know he was available, so they must of seen something that they liked about him to pick him over Freeman. Hopefully they were right. That makes sense. I mean, I don't pretend to know how to break down players. I was just wondering why Harris over Freeman because a layman like me looks at the obvious when scouts obviously have a way more intimate/detailed look at things.
Rock'em Sock'em Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Freeman is bigger, quicker, stronger, faster, played the position, and is suited for our defense. The recurring leg / ankle injuries must be the reason he fell.
oak tree 12 Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Here are the combine numbers: Nic Harris Marcus Freeman Height 6’ 2” 6’ 0” Weight 234 239 40 4.85 4.74 Bench 15 30 Vertical 31.5” 37” Broad 9.1” 9.5” 3–Cone 7.07 6.98 20 Yard Shuttle 4.38 4.12 Knock on Freeman is his height along with injury concerns. Freeman has some of the top "measurables" for linebackers at the combine. Supposedly a fantastic WLB. Knock on Harris is that he's a tweener, but he's a playmaker. Bears selected Freeman a little after us in the 5th. Why is Nic Harris a better prospect? That's my question because guys like buddy nix and tom modrak who have been in the personnel business for 4 decades obviously preferred Harris over freeman seeing that they had their choice. buddy nix single handily had the responsibility for making the picks and building the chargers team we see today. it was a god send that he had a falling out with that ego maniac smith and came back home to the bills. it cracks me up where message board GM's question people like Nix like they know something about a player compared to what he knows about any player. how much film have you watched on each player? answer None. were you @ the combine or their pro days? answer no. get the point add that to the fact that Nix has been one of the best in the business for almost 40 years and you have your answer. so that being said this message board GM is sticking with Buddy Nix and his evaluation of the 2 players you mentioned and for all the players he selected. personally i didnt like the maybin pick (i was worried he was a one year wonder) and would have taken brown but I'm smart enough to understand that when Nix took maybin then maybin was the better player even though i liked brown. turns out Nix was right because Brown lasted well into the second round.
oak tree 12 Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 I have read that Harris is not much of hitter. According to a few of the draft rags, the guy doesn't really like physical play. This is why some people don't think he will be able to switch to LB. I know these rags aren't the be all and end all of player analysis but the Sporting News usually seems alright. I admittedly never payed much attention to his play or even researched other articles about the kid. I don't doubt that you have reason to believe otherwise. The stuff I've read has actually discouraged me about the pick. I would love to hear or read something that supports the opposite. yea makes sense to me he hates contact. however he played strong safety for one of the top 3 programs in the nation year after year. just listen to what your saying if he played SS for Oklahoma do you think he does not like contact? you answered your own question with getting your information from the RAGS! if he was a p-ssy and shied away from contact do you not think Nix and Modrak would not have known that? especially knowing before they drafted him that he was going to be switched to LB.makes sense to me.
oak tree 12 Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Did you ever think there might be a reason Freeman is mentioned more often? Not only is Freeman bigger, faster, and stronger, he had way better stats in college than Harris. I'm so sick of people assuming that because a player is well-known everyone that likes him is an idiot that has just heard his name before. well i'm pretty sick of people assuming that because they have heard of a player or watched a few of his games that they know more about the player than a personnel guy with the credentials of a Buddy Nix. the guy didnt last almost 40 years in this league because he cant evaluate talent. want proof just look @ the chargers because it was him not smith as everyone thought who made those picks.
oak tree 12 Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 They kept blabbin about how instinctive Harris is.... supposedly he diagnoses plays quickly...which makes him appear to play faster than his numbers. Freeman might have been able to be plugged in right away. Harris has to adapt to a new position and be able to take on blockers... something that he aint done a lot of. To me, the line backing is clearly the weakest link on the D. Mitchell is perhaps just a hair above average. Poz has been a disappointment. The guy they bring in to assume Fletcher's role hasan't come close to what Fletcher meant to the D. Ellison is a bum. I'd grade him out a B- as a backup WIL... as a starter a C-, being generous. Pat Thomas is a bum, and DiGeorgio is a career backup at best. Getting way off the original topic of Harris vs. Freeman.... the defense has bits & pieces... but no heart and soul. Geez... kinda characterizes the head coach. mitchell a hair above average get freaking real!
Thoner7 Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Again, I'm no Nic Harris expert but how does unnecessary roughness and personal fouls translate into physical play? It is actually a negative to lead the league in those categories. It usually means a player is undisciplined or is a cheap shot artist. Penalties are often given to the guy who is getting beat and has to resort to other tactics. I don't know enough about this player to have any real feeling about the pick. Unfortunately, I have read more negatives than positives at this point. Was Nic Harris a dominant safety in college? Is he athlectic enough to overcome moderate measurables? Is he instinctive enough to switch to LB? The thing with Harris is he plays "right on the edge" What I mean is there is a very fine line between a good legal hard hit in bounds and a late hit out of bounds. Harris is always looking to dominate someone and gets a little greedy at times. His reputation alone drew him a few flags IMO. But the point is one or two flags are not really a bad thing because you want to be right on that edge, and if you are playing close enough to that edge, you will be getting called once in a while. Think of it like this -- is it better for an O lineman to never be called for a holding penalty, or to be called 2-3 times per year and be a much better blocker on the other 10,000 flag-free snaps of his career? Same thing goes for QBs. Flutie used to say all the time that he is scared of QBs who throw too few ints. He says that a QB with no ints takes no chances, chances he should be taking. Sometimes those chances lead to a pick or two, but could also lead to 10 TDs, and thats a good trade.
2003Contenders Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Whether the Bills are right or wrong about Harris -- we will have to wait and see. The Bills wound up taking him right about where he was projected to go (maybe even a round or so later). The real story was Freeman's decline. He was projected by many of the pundits to be a top 5 OLB (2nd or 3rd round draft pick). That he fell all the way to the 5th round may indicate that there was something about him that worried scouts -- just as Everette Brown's falling all the way to #43 seemed to be such a shocker.
Armchair GM Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Here are the combine numbers: Nic Harris Marcus Freeman Height 6’ 2” 6’ 0” Weight 234 239 40 4.85 4.74 Bench 15 30 Vertical 31.5” 37” Broad 9.1” 9.5” 3–Cone 7.07 6.98 20 Yard Shuttle 4.38 4.12 Knock on Freeman is his height along with injury concerns. Freeman has some of the top "measurables" for linebackers at the combine. Supposedly a fantastic WLB. Knock on Harris is that he's a tweener, but he's a playmaker. Bears selected Freeman a little after us in the 5th. Check out Harris' story...After reading this, I can't help but be in this guys corner: Why is Nic Harris a better prospect? That's my question Check out Harris' story...After reading this, I can't help but be in this guys corner: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1...fe-1de6349c75c2
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted May 5, 2009 Author Posted May 5, 2009 it cracks me up where message board GM's question people like Nix like they know something about a player compared to what he knows about any player. how much film have you watched on each player? answer None. were you @ the combine or their pro days? answer no. get the point add that to the fact that Nix has been one of the best in the business for almost 40 years and you have your answer. Buddy, is that you? First of all, calm down and take a cold shower. It's just a message board. And I asked a very civil question which got your panties in a bunch, so if anyone has a problem here it's you. Obviously I am no scout. I just wanted a more in-depth opinion from people so I could understand. I am no message board GM, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
stuckincincy Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Buddy, is that you? First of all, calm down and take a cold shower. It's just a message board. And I asked a very civil question which got your panties in a bunch, so if anyone has a problem here it's you. Obviously I am no scout. I just wanted a more in-depth opinion from people so I could understand. I am no message board GM, but thanks for the vote of confidence. Some seem to think that only folks who were professional scouts can offer up opinions. There's an ex-MLB player on the late afternoon radio here in Cincinnati. He's fond of angrily saying to callers "Hey, did you play the game! Huh! Did ya?!!!" If only those that "played the game" mattered, the stands would have a couple of thousand per game, and he would have been earning a hundred bucks or so per game - maybe.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Nic Harris appears to be a very special person who has overcome more in his short life than most people are ever faced with. Besides the story at Bills.com here's another take on his very rough childhood: http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/extra/art..._B1_OUdefe17145 Abandoned at birth by two teenage parents: "This is a man who was born to teenage parents who at first did not want him, then later fought to control him; who was shuffled between the households of both sets of grandparents and did not have a bed; whose family was too poor to afford school supplies or football equipment; who was subjected to a childhood of near neglect and frequent abandonment. "Growing up, it was hard," Harris said. "Being bounced from home to home, not knowing where I was going to stay. "I was just a kid, you know? I was just a kid. A little boy." Raised mostly by his grandmother who passed away his freshman year at Oklahoma: "Between the ages of eight and 15 Harris bounced between the homes of his extended family as his relatives did not want to see Nic enter the Louisiana state foster care program." Attended 9 different schools, but does not feel sorry for himself: “I never asked God ‘Why me?’ but rather ‘Why not me,’” said Harris. “Who am I? I’m special so why can’t it happen for me?’” Worked hard in high school: “Going through high school I had four different jobs and was playing various different sports, but I graduated in the top three percent of my class,” said Harris. Performs community service work: "A two-term president of Bridge Builders at Oklahoma, a minority student organization focused on community service, Harris likes to reinforce to elementary school kids the importance of a good education. In 2007 he was one of 11 Division 1-A players selected for the American Football Coaches’ Association Good Works Team, which recognizes work in the community." Maybe it's these things that put him ahead of Marcus Freeman on the Bills draft board.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 buddy nix single handily had the responsibility for making the picks and building the chargers team we see today. lmao Yeah that AJ Smith guy had zero input whatsoever.
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