H2o Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 The jury is out on all of these guys until they get it done on the field consistently. Ko Simpson looked awesome in the preseason of year 1. He also played decent his first regular season. I think we all had high hopes for the guy and people were probably saying he was going to be one of the best in the game for us as well. Once Byrd gets it done ON THE FIELD I'll start praising the guy. But right now, he has as much to prove as anyone else on the field for us.
The Big Cat Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 That something needs a reality check... Couldn't disagree with you more. Byrd will be competing with McKelvin to be our best DB within 12 to 24 months. Brown is someone who will have to change positions to have an impact and was a good/great player in an inferior, yet still overrated conference. Relax. He misses Jim Leonard. Nuff said.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 You are under the assumption that Everette Brown would even start. There is a reason Maybin was a top 10 prospect, and Brown slipped to the 2nd round. In fact, Brown's technique is doo-doo, and he relies on his speed to get by tackles (which is no where near as good as Maybin's). Maybin is essentially a much better version of Brown. Brown is short, and has average arm length... while Maybin is tall with very long arms. Firstly no one is assuming that Everette Brown would start. It's been made clear that Maybin will not start at first...that he'll start out as a situational pass rusher. If the Bills are not expecting their first rounder to start why would anyone assume that their second rounder would start? Secondly the consensus was that Brown was the most polished pass rusher in this year's draft. Brown has a variety of moves (Maybin has none except speed rush to the outside). I don't know what dropped Brown but at #42 he would have been a great value. Carolina traded a number one pick next year to get Brown at #43, right after we took Byrd. On top of all this, Connor Barwin was also available when we picked Byrd. He also didn't last long after we passed him up, going to Houston at pick #46. Barwin was expected to be taken within the first two rounds. I'm not at all against the drafting of Jairus Byrd but it certainly is a legit concern that the Bills passed over not one but two highly regarded pass rushers when they picked him. And as I've already pointed out numerous times before, the Bills also passed over an excellent pass rusher, Lawrence Sidbury at #121 when we drafted Shawn Nelson. Hope Maybin works out because it was far from a consensus that he was the best DE in this draft.
In space no one can hear Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Not really. He doesn't use his hands well, and tends to just blow right by tackles because they can't get their hands on him. That's right from a Bills scout's mouth. A Bills scouts mouth? That is laughable and just plain WRONG. Brown was the most complete pass rusher(variety of moves etc.) available in the draft. If you project him to best long term in the NFL, then the opinion can vary.
Conch Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Why is an early second round pick a diamond in the rough? He should be qualified. Joel Bell and Demetrius Bell qualify as diamonds in the rough.
Fingon Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Firstly no one is assuming that Everette Brown would start. It's been made clear that Maybin will not start at first...that he'll start out as a situational pass rusher. If the Bills are not expecting their first rounder to start why would anyone assume that their second rounder would start? Secondly the consensus was that Brown was the most polished pass rusher in this year's draft. Brown has a variety of moves (Maybin has none except speed rush to the outside). I don't know what dropped Brown but at #42 he would have been a great value. Carolina traded a number one pick next year to get Brown at #43, right after we took Byrd. On top of all this, Connor Barwin was also available when we picked Byrd. He also didn't last long after we passed him up, going to Houston at pick #46. Barwin was expected to be taken within the first two rounds. I'm not at all against the drafting of Jairus Byrd but it certainly is a legit concern that the Bills passed over not one but two highly regarded pass rushers when they picked him. And as I've already pointed out numerous times before, the Bills also passed over an excellent pass rusher, Lawrence Sidbury at #121 when we drafted Shawn Nelson. Hope Maybin works out because it was far from a consensus that he was the best DE in this draft. Then you know nothing about Everette Brown. There are some very, very good reasons as to why he dropped.
In space no one can hear Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Still don't understand this mancrush with Everette Brown. There is a reason that he fell so far in the draft and its not because he's a FSU DE Brown fell for a reason? Do those same reasons apply to why Shawn Nelson fell in the draft? Just asking. Carolina valued Brown enough to trade a first round pick to draft him. If you look at the Panthers record at identifying top offensive and defensive line talent over the years its pretty good.
The Big Cat Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I'm not at all against the drafting of Jairus Byrd but it certainly is a legit concern that the Bills passed over not one but two highly regarded pass rushers when they picked him. And as I've already pointed out numerous times before, the Bills also passed over an excellent pass rusher, Lawrence Sidbury at #121 when we drafted Shawn Nelson. Hope Maybin works out because it was far from a consensus that he was the best DE in this draft. Why is it a concern? Perhaps it's a testament to Byrd.
Magox Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 We will see with Byrd, but something tells me a combo of E. Brown and G. Wilson would have been a better combo than Kelsay and Byrd.... You may be right. But I like Maybin and Byrd better than E. Brown and G. Wilson
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Why is it a concern? Perhaps it's a testament to Byrd. I think that's exactly what it is, and I hope the kid proves the Bills right.
Fingon Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Brown fell for a reason? Do those same reasons apply to why Shawn Nelson fell in the draft? Just asking. Carolina valued Brown enough to trade a first round pick to draft him. If you look at the Panthers record at identifying top offensive and defensive line talent over the years its pretty good. He fell because his potential isn't near any of the other DE prospects. He has good technique, but he has suspect athleticism, is short, has average arm length, and his first step is nowhere near Maybin's. You can teach pass rushing technique, but you can't teach freakish athleticism. The Panthers drafted him because they need leverage against Peppers, and he may be served better by sitting on the bench for a year or two.
Magox Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Then you know nothing about Everette Brown. There are some very, very good reasons as to why he dropped. you don't know about E. Brown. The reason why he dropped was simple, when they evaluated him, they saw that they believed he could not play as a 3-4 outside rushing LB which is what most teams are employing, so that ruled out the majority of the teams that were picking. The fact that the Panthers went out of their way to draft him says something. The Carolina Panthers know a little something about Defensive Lineman. They have drafted better on the D-Line probably better than any other team in the NFL over the last 10 years. They decided to trade next year's #1 round draft choice to get him. I trust their opinions more than yours.
Fingon Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 you don't know about E. Brown. The reason why he dropped was simple, when they evaluated him, they saw that they believed he could not play as a 3-4 outside rushing LB. The Carolina Panthers know a little something about Defensive Lineman. They have drafted better on the D-Line probably better than any other team in the NFL over the last 10 years. They decided to trade next year's #1 round draft choice to get him. I trust their opinions more than yours. My opinion comes from hearing/reading the opinions of a great many scouts, and watching tape on him. There is a reason 30+ teams passed on him. The Panthers drafted him because they desperately needed a DE, and he was the best on the board at 42, not because they think he will be a great DE.
Magox Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 My opinion comes from hearing/reading the opinions of a great many scouts, and watching tape on him. There is a reason 30+ teams passed on him. I just told you why many teams passed on him. Once again, I trust the Panthers evaluation of him more than yours.
The Big Cat Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I just told you why many teams passed on him. Once again, I trust the Panthers evaluation of him more than yours. Well, we'll see how he does THIS year. How he performs down the line is a moot point because 2009 is a must win year for the Bills, and they drafted accordingly.
billybob Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 2nd round is not diamond in the rough territory, it better be diamond cut and polished - if Byrd doesn't start and play well I'm going to think that the Bills blew that pick because there was a lot of talent at that pick.
Fingon Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I just told you why many teams passed on him. Once again, I trust the Panthers evaluation of him more than yours. It comes back to "I trust the Panthers evaluation of him more than yours." because you cannot refute his negatives. The Panthers drafted him at 42 because they know Peppers is gone they desperately need a DE, and he was the only good one left on the board. Why do you even post if all you are going to do is parrot the "a good team drafted him so you must be wrong, lolz." line? You were partly right about the 3-4 comment, but he does not project as a great 4-3 DE either.
Kingfish Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I've come full circle on the Byrd pick. At first I hated it but now I love it. Hopefully he develops into a 4-7 int per season FS.
thebandit27 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 A Bills scouts mouth? That is laughable and just plain WRONG. Brown was the most complete pass rusher(variety of moves etc.) available in the draft. If you project him to best long term in the NFL, then the opinion can vary. Actually, if you go by sacks, QB pressures, tackles for a loss, and forced fumbles, Larry English was clearly the best pass-rusher in the draft. The one scout that I speak to on a regular basis (not a Bills' scout) said his team had Brown as a mid-2nd rounder, and that his team was "underwhelmed" by Brown's pass-rush ability. Just one scout's take...
Jerry Jabber Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 From what it sounds like, the Bills drafted Byrd because they need someone to create turnovers. If the Bills FO really wants our defense to create turnovers, they should have done more to improve the D-Line. I'm glad we drafted Maybin & picked up Stroud last season, but IMO we should have picked up another dominating DT and another DE. Pressure on the QB creates turnovers and we haven't had a good pass rush in years. If Stroud goes down, we're screwed with our DT's. Last year, we saw bad our pass rush was with Denney & Kelsay. I'm hoping Maybin will be the DE we've been looking for & Ellis can step up and outplay Kelsay & Denney.
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