GG Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It's not like there isn't a long history or good precedent of what may come. There's a very live experiment of heavy government involvement in all facets of a region's life. I think people on this board should be very familiar with its success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Good for Kevin Vaughn! He did a great job of not just pointing out the problems with the region, but offering solutions as well. Buffalo and the surrounding areas are getting exactly what they asked for! And I fear you're right about this happening at the national level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It's not like there isn't a long history or good precedent of what may come. There's a very live experiment of heavy government involvement in all facets of a region's life. I think people on this board should be very familiar with its success. It got us through WWI and won WWII (blue). See above (red). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Let's hope that the Buffalo Water Front project and Rochester's Renaissance Square timelines and false start planning aren't bellweathers for things to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Oh, what's gonna happen if the nation goes ALL heavy gov't... Where are the pouting companies going to run in retalitation? HINT: It won't be Columbus, Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It got us through WWI and won WWII (blue). See above (red). It CAUSED WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It CAUSED WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 What I am trying to say is... Boo hoo hoo. The problem with BFLO is that everybody else in the nation ate them... What is going to happen when the "defector" (area that takes advantage of an other area) is lost within our borders? We will be all on the same page, no? What are we all going to do, cry and lay in a fetal position like Darin and GG think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Your ignorance if history is unparalleled. Now get back to denying people rights based on costs, you cowardly hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 It got us through WWI and won WWII (blue). See above (red). Great example, EII. Knew we can count on you to provide a cogent counterpoint. Are you saying we should be running the economy as if it's constant wartime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Great example, EII. Knew we can count on you to provide a cogent counterpoint. Are you saying we should be running the economy as if it's constant wartime? No. All I am saying is that you don't hurt the patriots that got you through the war by "eating your own." BFLO was a very unique situation during (especially WWII)... How the rest of the country and corporations turned it's back... And even the US Gov't (with Canada/Toronto and the SeaWay)... On BFLO and it's artificially generated labor that streamed into WNY from all parts of the country is an utter disgrace. What do you expect it to do? And yes, disgree that what happened to BFLO is be a harbinger of what will happen to the rest of the country... I just find it utterly non-sensical. BFLO broke BOTH GEOGRAPHICALLY and socially. I am not saying rest on one's laurels. I am also not saying the gov't has no blame in what became BFLO. Just don't kick the vet when they are down and out... Where was the outcry from the rest of the nation in 1959 when they were piece-mealing BFLO out bit by bit. /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Your ignorance if history is unparalleled. Now get back to denying people rights based on costs, you cowardly hypocrite. Holding true to form Darin, you are a good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Holding true to form Darin, you are a good man. Yeah, my ability to point out your stupidity has never been more acute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Oh, what's gonna happen if the nation goes ALL heavy gov't... Where are the pouting companies going to run in retalitation? HINT: It won't be Columbus, Ohio. To countries that have no corporate taxes, I presume. HINT: It will probably be China, South Korea, and India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 To countries that have no corporate taxes, I presume. HINT: It will probably be China, South Korea, and India. And if the US exludes them and throws up protectionist measures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Yeah, my ability to point out your stupidity has never been more acute. See there you go again Darin... Please tell me where I started calling you names? You are the one who is starting this crap by trolling and not defending a proper position/argument. All you do is get into these flame wars. Please cease and desist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 And if the US exludes them and throws up protectionist measures? So let me get this straight. Based on what you've posted in this thread, your ideal plan for America's 21st century economy would involve: 1. Denying trade with 3 of the biggest and most innovative players on the international free market stage. 2. Making corporate taxation uniformly high for every state in the union, just like in the flourishing laissez-faire utopia that is the state of New York. 3. Expanding the ultra-efficient public bureaucracy for every state in the union in true Keynesian fashion, just like in the state of New York. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It's not like there isn't a long history or good precedent of what may come. There's a very live experiment of heavy government involvement in all facets of a region's life. I think people on this board should be very familiar with its success. I think you are stretching it by trying to make a jump from inefficient government to a government that's involved in all facets of our lives, and blaming the latter on the economic troubles here. Changing the number of town board members or consolidating towns into regional governing units to save money doesn't really impact what government's do or will do. In addition, cutting the number of reps doesn't cut the number of patronage jobs that are given out in the city or county. Reducing the size doesn't necessarily mean reducing its scope. You can have a more efficient (smaller) government, but it will, or can, be just as involved in our lives (as it is in California, for example). The problem here in WNY isn't government's involvement so much, it is how much WE spend on doing the same thing governments do everywhere else at lower costs. It's a specious arguement GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 So let me get this straight. Based on what you've posted in this thread, your ideal plan for America's 21st century economy would involve: 1. Denying trade with 3 of the biggest and most innovative players on the international free market stage. 2. Making corporate taxation uniformly high for every state in the union, just like in the flourishing laissez-faire utopia that is the state of New York. 3. Expanding the ultra-efficient public bureaucracy for every state in the union in true Keynesian fashion, just like in the state of New York. Brilliant. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I think you are stretching it by trying to make a jump from inefficient government to a government that's involved in all facets of our lives, and blaming the latter on the economic troubles here. Changing the number of town board members or consolidating towns into regional governing units to save money doesn't really impact what government's do or will do. In addition, cutting the number of reps doesn't cut the number of patronage jobs that are given out in the city or county. Reducing the size doesn't necessarily mean reducing its scope. You can have a more efficient (smaller) government, but it will, or can, be just as involved in our lives (as it is in California, for example). The problem here in WNY isn't government's involvement so much, it is how much WE spend on doing the same thing governments do everywhere else at lower costs. It's a specious arguement GG. You make great points TPS. I pay the same if not MORE taxes in Illinois than NYS and get suckier services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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