billsfan89 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 The DT position is a position of Concern. Stroud is a stud but he is a year older so the possibility for injury and a decline in play are higher. As for the rest of the DT's on the team they seem to be nothing to inspire confidence. Williams seems better suited for situational playing and McCargo and Johnson seem like they are average at best. I think it was just wishful thinking to think Henderson would be traded for a fourth or even a third. He would have been a real force but it looks like that rumor was just pulled out of the sky.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I think that DE play has a lot to do with the DT play - if we get some production from our DE's, this will help take some load off the DT's and make them that much better. Schobel's health is critical. There is a scenario (not implausible) that other teams will be able to jam the ball down our throats and I don't think Aaron Maybin will have much to say about that.
TC in St. Louis Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I guess I just don't see it, but can someone explain how the d-line coach can make McCargo suck? I feel like the whole "adding a new coach will make McCargo better" is just an idea us fans are clinging to as a last hope about the career of our former 1st round pick. This is the NFL, not high school. You don't like your d-line coach? Tough. It isn't about that. It's about your damn job. You go out there and compete the best you can no matter what. The whole d-line coach thing just doesn't make sense to me. If McCargo wanted to give an effort, he would have. I think it's a legitimate point. I've noted since they hired Kollar that the only thing he excelled at was screaming at guys. When he was with the Rams, he blew thru a bunch of first round picks (Damione Lewis, Jimmie Kennedy, Ryan Pickett) and they did not do squat. Pickett seemed to come around, but only AFTER Kollar left. There was a reason that McCargo went in the first round. He has talent. Indy thought enough to trade for him. Not a lot. But he flunked the physical. I personally believe McCargo will have a very nice year. And Stroud, Williams, Johnson, Schobel, et. al...they will improve. The new picks will make us better. The new DL coach was Green Bay's defensive coordinator. I think he'll make them a better team.
djcalvin79 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 There is a scenario (not implausible) that other teams will be able to jam the ball down our throats and I don't think Aaron Maybin will have much to say about that. Henderson is not the solution either - he's 30. I would be very wary of banking our hopes on two DTs who are 30 and above. Since Kyle Williams is the only draft pick successfully groomed to fit into this role (assuming that McCargo really is a wash, and no amount of coaching will improve him), it is time to address this position seriously next draft. For this season, if the Jags are willing to trade Henderson for a 3/4rd pick, that might not be a bad idea - one less pick that the FO will end up spending on a DB next draft! This way we have some insurance for this season and can build a system that the youngsters can come in and learn..
Astrobot Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Very concerned. If Jax would take a 3 and a 5 in the 10 draft (same as they took for Stroud) for Henderson, I'd be all for that. I would pony up a 3 and a 5 as well for Henderson, and sign him to 3 years. Henderson-Stroud with Williams-Johnson-McCargo depth.
JPicc2114 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 DT will be a priority in the offseason after this year. But as of this year, they are fine.
peanuts Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I guess I just don't see it, but can someone explain how the d-line coach can make McCargo suck? I feel like the whole "adding a new coach will make McCargo better" is just an idea us fans are clinging to as a last hope about the career of our former 1st round pick. This is the NFL, not high school. You don't like your d-line coach? Tough. It isn't about that. It's about your damn job. You go out there and compete the best you can no matter what. The whole d-line coach thing just doesn't make sense to me. If McCargo wanted to give an effort, he would have. Have you ever had a boss you didn't like or they didn't like you in return. A player just can't quit, he is stuck with that team, maybe this was the situation with McCargo. It is hard to work for someone that doesn't like you, it also affects your attitude.
peanuts Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I would pony up a 3 and a 5 as well for Henderson, and sign him to 3 years. Henderson-Stroud with Williams-Johnson-McCargo depth. I would agree send them send them a 4th round pick in 2010 and throw in Ellison, slow-poke Hardy..
peanuts Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I think it's a legitimate point. I've noted since they hired Kollar that the only thing he excelled at was screaming at guys. When he was with the Rams, he blew thru a bunch of first round picks (Damione Lewis, Jimmie Kennedy, Ryan Pickett) and they did not do squat. Pickett seemed to come around, but only AFTER Kollar left. There was a reason that McCargo went in the first round. He has talent. Indy thought enough to trade for him. Not a lot. But he flunked the physical. I personally believe McCargo will have a very nice year. And Stroud, Williams, Johnson, Schobel, et. al...they will improve. The new picks will make us better. The new DL coach was Green Bay's defensive coordinator. I think he'll make them a better team. Kollar ruined a bunch of first rounder in th epast, they all are still playing, Lewis & Pickett are starting?kennedy was a bust.
LabattBlue Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 You missed the OP's original point which is that we are one injury away from being perilously thin at the position. Thank you.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I'm definitely concerned about it. The 4-3 zone defense asks its defensive linemen, tackles included, to penetrate the line and be active and disruptive. Williams, Johnson and McCargo just don't fit the bill. We've had to put off addressing this spot because we've had bigger needs, but I'm really hoping at draft time next year they're thinking about a DT in the first.
LabattBlue Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 I guess I just don't see it, but can someone explain how the d-line coach can make McCargo suck? I feel like the whole "adding a new coach will make McCargo better" is just an idea us fans are clinging to as a last hope about the career of our former 1st round pick. It's all about the rose colored glasses!
Pete Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I am very concerned about our DT situation. Williams is a good back up, but I not sure he should be starting. I am not ready to write off McCargo yet- maybe he will be a pleasant surprise this year. Johnson disappointed last year- especially after some lavish praise. Dorsey or Henderson would do wonders for our defense! I hope we are continually looking for an additional solid DT
Magox Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Henderson is not the solution either - he's 30. I would be very wary of banking our hopes on two DTs who are 30 and above. Since Kyle Williams is the only draft pick successfully groomed to fit into this role (assuming that McCargo really is a wash, and no amount of coaching will improve him), it is time to address this position seriously next draft. For this season, if the Jags are willing to trade Henderson for a 3/4rd pick, that might not be a bad idea - one less pick that the FO will end up spending on a DB next draft! This way we have some insurance for this season and can build a system that the youngsters can come in and learn.. He just turned 30 a few months ago. That is prime age for a DT, barring he has no structural injuries. They don't rely on speed as much as other defenders.
Rico Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Not trying to fill the role of AKC but... I know the Bills could always shore up the position between now and September,but they are one serious injury away to Stroud(who is on the wrong side of 30) to being in really bad shape at the position. That would leave them with... 1.)Williams(overacheiving high motor guy) 2.)McCargo(so bad they tried to trade him and hoped Indy wouldn't flunk him at time of physical) 3.)Johnson(signed last year as a FA, but has yet to be seen). I think that only at the QB position would an injury be more disastrous. I am also concerned. The best teams use higher draft equity on DTs... to think otherwise is simply just je jeune.
LabattBlue Posted May 1, 2009 Author Posted May 1, 2009 I am also concerned. The best teams use higher draft equity on DTs... to think otherwise is simply just je jeune.
stuckincincy Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Have you ever had a boss you didn't like or they didn't like you in return. A player just can't quit, he is stuck with that team, maybe this was the situation with McCargo. It is hard to work for someone that doesn't like you, it also affects your attitude. Well, I can't say I've ever been shackled, indentured, with a paycheck for 1, 2 or perhaps many more millions of dollars for part-time work. I'd like to try that, though, and must hope that my inner child can find a way to deal with that hardship.
ans4e64 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Have you ever had a boss you didn't like or they didn't like you in return. A player just can't quit, he is stuck with that team, maybe this was the situation with McCargo. It is hard to work for someone that doesn't like you, it also affects your attitude. Of course. I've even had football coaches that I hated with a passion, to the point I didn't want to play for them anymore. However, the NFL is FAR different from high school or anything else, especially bosses at a job. The NFL is a job, first and foremost. You are playing for your job. If you choose to let anything distract you, then you are out on the street stocking shelves at K-Mart. I wasn't playing for a paycheck in high school. I wasn't playing professionally. It was an extracurricular activity where a crowd of 100 parents watched the games, not 100,000+ diehard fans. My point is that McCargo is playing for his pay, his job, his teammates and his reputation. Play your best, and you get more playing time, which turns into more money or increased value around the league. Don't give an effort or show you care about being there, and that turns into less playing time and less value around the league. I just think there is an overall lackadaisical attitude with McCargo, and I don't see how a d-line coach either makes or breaks it. If he turns this thing around, or continues down the same road, I just don't think the d-line coach is having anything to do with it. JMO.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Name one team that has Pro Bowlers at every position. Every team has holes. The key is playing to your strengths. PTR
Kelly the Dog Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I guess I just don't see it, but can someone explain how the d-line coach can make McCargo suck? I feel like the whole "adding a new coach will make McCargo better" is just an idea us fans are clinging to as a last hope about the career of our former 1st round pick. This is the NFL, not high school. You don't like your d-line coach? Tough. It isn't about that. It's about your damn job. You go out there and compete the best you can no matter what. The whole d-line coach thing just doesn't make sense to me. If McCargo wanted to give an effort, he would have. Coaching doesn't make a difference? One of the most important elements of coaching is to treat different players differently to get the most out of them. The good coaches are masters at this, being hard on some guys and coddling others. It's very possible that the D Line coach sucked, especially considering that Jauron is the last guy who wants to fire anyone, but he did. I'm not saying McCargo isn't going to suck this year, but it's easily imaginable that a different coach could get a lot more out of a player, or this particular player.
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