BuffaloBill Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Personally I don't care what they do as long as they score more freaking points. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Dang I'm excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 It helps that we drafted two very smart players.Wonderlic scores: Levitre- 36 Wood- 29 I don't think they will have as much trouble as the average rookie. They're also known for having a great work ethic, which surprisingly isn't a given at this level of competition (see: Peters, Jason; Dockery, Derrick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Hangartner is probably the smartest player we've ever had, so i think he would make the right line call. Hangartner will lead, the rest will follow. In fact, they probably signed him over the other FA centers because of his ability to run the no huddle. Melvin Fowler was a fine chess player and smart guy. It didn't make him a solid NFL center. Intelligence without physical ability isn't enough. Certainly not saying GH isn't talented, but he's an unproven no matter what happened in CAR. Coach Jauron has been known as an innovator his whole career. I could totally see this happening. They used to call him Crazy Dick during his championship run with the Bears back in '29. He and Turk are not what I'd call innovative, nor do they make in-game adjustments when the situation calls for it. Seeing all those 3-4 teams dropping 6 or 7 into coverage was maddening. Only during the Cleveland game did they run it effectively when that happened. The Dick and Turk (plus Perry) Show have a lot to prove after three years. Not sure if after a combined 50 years in the NFL they'll ever be great gameday coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 The real key to the success of the no huddle is letting you QB call his own plays, from a shortened play list. People always claim the league figured out the no huddle after the first year, but It was really a case of the coaching staff slowing down the sequence of plays to be able to call them from the sideline which allowed defenses time to substitue. The idea was to give our D more time to rest as we were scoring so quickly, or if we went three out the D was back on the field in about 15 minutes real time. To be truly sucessful you need an aggressive, gambling D that can get right back off the field. If you give up a score you have to rely on the O to get it back. And if your D is agressive that leads to turnovers and you O is in the endzone again or the D scores. If you don't believe me compare games from 1990 and 1991. In 90 we were running plays every 15-20 seconds. In 91 it was every 35-40. Huge difference. Also you have to be solid against the run, otherwise you have long drives by the opponent and their D gets rested. I would love to see it reborn. They have changed the rules. You have to allow defenses time to substitute. To me, one of the drawbacks would be that it's hard to imagine the 360 pound Langston Walker handling the pace of the no-huddle. The guy already has questionable foot speed for LT. If he gets tired, his speed is only going to degrade. And 360 pounders don't handle a fast pace well. Tim notes in the article that our OLs were a bit small back in the day, and that helped them handle the pace. You couldn't really call Langston small. I live in Japan, and even in the world of sumo, Langston would not be small. Also, Kelly had a lot more experience than Trent does right now when he was calling the plays for the K-Gun. Same with Peyton Manning. Trent is smart enough, but not experienced enough to be calling plays, IMHO. I think the coaches would maintain that kind of control, though that should be much easier with the helmet mikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 He and Turk are not what I'd call innovative, nor do they make in-game adjustments when the situation calls for it. Seeing all those 3-4 teams dropping 6 or 7 into coverage was maddening. Only during the Cleveland game did they run it effectively when that happened. The Dick and Turk (plus Perry) Show have a lot to prove after three years. Not sure if after a combined 50 years in the NFL they'll ever be great gameday coaches. I'm pretty sure crazyDingo was being sarcastic. "Crazy Dick"? C'mon. As for Dick, he has enough of a history to know he is unlikely to ever be innovative. But, this will be Turk's 2nd year, and he works for Dick. What makes you so sure he can't change and/or grow to be more innovative, over time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Ridlehuber Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 They have changed the rules. You have to allow defenses time to substitute. To me, one of the drawbacks would be that it's hard to imagine the 360 pound Langston Walker handling the pace of the no-huddle. The guy already has questionable foot speed for LT. If he gets tired, his speed is only going to degrade. And 360 pounders don't handle a fast pace well. Tim notes in the article that our OLs were a bit small back in the day, and that helped them handle the pace. You couldn't really call Langston small. I live in Japan, and even in the world of sumo, Langston would not be small. Also, Kelly had a lot more experience than Trent does right now when he was calling the plays for the K-Gun. Same with Peyton Manning. Trent is smart enough, but not experienced enough to be calling plays, IMHO. I think the coaches would maintain that kind of control, though that should be much easier with the helmet mikes. I believe the only time you have to let the defense substitute is if you substitute. Ohterwise you don't have to wait for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 They have changed the rules. You have to allow defenses time to substitute. You have to give the D time to change personnel if the O has changed. That isn't new. Are you certain you have to let the D change if the offensive personnel remains the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks much for thinking to post it. Getting paid is so 1990's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Ridlehuber Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You have to give the D time to change personnel if the O has changed. That isn't new. Are you certain you have to let the D change if the offensive personnel remains the same? Beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Beat me to it. Actually, you got your post in first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'm pretty sure crazyDingo was being sarcastic. "Crazy Dick"? C'mon. As for Dick, he has enough of a history to know he is unlikely to ever be innovative. But, this will be Turk's 2nd year, and he works for Dick. What makes you so sure he can't change and/or grow to be more innovative, over time? I forgot to add this: I don't expect him to do anything out of his normal self this year. I do recall hearing about opening up the offense in 07 and 08. Not sure if that was Losman in 07 and Turk in 08 with their bluster, but I've got to go doubting Thomas here and believe it when I see it. Besides, DJ has a method, which I disagree with, that has got him this far. I don't see him changing his stripes anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Buffalo has the makings of what could be a very prolific offense next year...I really believe the person underestimated in all of this is Josh Reed going back to his slot role---a role in which he excels at. Reed has become one of the most sure handed receivers in the NFL, ranking in the top 5 in catch percentage the last few years and seems to always find a way to get open and then get to the first down marker, even when it appears he will be stopped short. Sometimes he puts a little slippery move on a defender, sometimes he spins away from a defender, sometimes he just runs over a defender, but he almost always gets that first down conversion... Combine this with TO, Evans and now Nelson being a receiving threat at the TE position and 3 good receiving RB's and the Bills have the ability to literally kill you anyway they want to. It all hinges on Edwards and his ability to make the right reads. IMO the OL is not that big of a factor because if Trent is on, that ball is coming out before most defenders are going to get to him anyways. It also helps to have more weapons to defend other than Lee Evans on offense in the passing game as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I forgot to add this: I don't expect him to do anything out of his normal self this year. I do recall hearing about opening up the offense in 07 and 08. Not sure if that was Losman in 07 and Turk in 08 with their bluster, but I've got to go doubting Thomas here and believe it when I see it. Besides, DJ has a method, which I disagree with, that has got him this far. I don't see him changing his stripes anytime soon. I guess I'm saying I wouldn't call what Turk did last year "his normal self" as it was his first year as an OC. I need a bigger sample size than that. I will agree that any change is likely to be hampered by DJ. The one hope I have is, DJ may be coaching for his job, this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I guess I'm saying I wouldn't call what Turk did last year "his normal self" as it was his first year as an OC. I need a bigger sample size than that. I will agree that any change is likely to be hampered by DJ. The one hope I have is, DJ may be coaching for his job, this year. You know I'm not a fan of the coach. I just don't see how a guy who was a position coach for many years couldn't get promoted to OC for multiple franchises. The jury is still out on this guy, and the guy who hired him. What I saw last year was some unpreparedness and inability to adapt in-game to opposing defenses. People like to point out that Cleveland picked off Edwards 3 times early. I was there and it was painful to watch a guy make those mistakes. But I also don't think his OC helped him at all either. Let's recall this was the fifth time TE saw a 3-4 defense. An experienced NFL coach needs to do better than that, regardless of how many games he's been an OC. I expect more from the OC when he's been around the game his entire adult life. I still believe TS would not be more than a position coach for 31 other teams in the NFL. His not being hired after 10 seasons as a QB coach tells me something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This isn't directed at you, really, Dave...but I'll take this opportunity to ask a question, once again. I keep hearing how Parrish has trouble running routes, doesn't understand the offense, etc. But, the only place I hear that is on Bills fan forums. Where have you heard this, other than from other fans? I don't think I have ever heard that Parrish has trouble with routes, or the playbook, except on The Wall. Dean, I don't think we even need to hear anyone say it. It's right there in front of us, he just hasn't been able to get open. Proof is in the pudding my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Dean, I don't think we even need to hear anyone say it. It's right there in front of us, he just hasn't been able to get open. Proof is in the pudding my friend. Sorry, that doesn't equate to "he has trouble running routes". It could mean, he can't get off the first bump. More likely, it means he is being poorly used by the coaching staff, and Trent doesn't look his way, as he tends to go to the check-down option more often than not. Or, when he is lined up, and a real option, it is in one of the many formations the Bills use to announce their intentions to the defense, before the snap. You try getting open when the D knows exactly what you are going to do. I have yet to see that Parrish isn't open, play after play. I don't make the leap of faith that, because he isn't getting the ball, then he MUST be covered. Even if that were true, I'd probably start my thought process (as I usually do) with the fact that the offense has been incompetently designed and run, for several years. I might be overly swayed by his explosive talent on ST, but I have to believe he would excel on another team, in a different system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Sorry, that doesn't equate to "he has trouble running routes". It could mean, he can't get off the first bump. More likely, it means he is being poorly used by the coaching staff, and Trent doesn't look his way, as he tends to go to the check-down option more often than not. Or, when he is lined up, and a real option, it is in one of the many formations the Bills use to announce their intentions to the defense, before the snap. You try getting open when the D knows exactly what you are going to do. I have yet to see that Parrish isn't open, play after play. I don't make the leap of faith that, because he isn't getting the ball, then he MUST be covered. Even if that were true, I'd probably start my thought process (as I usually do) with the fact that the offense has been incompetently designed and run, for several years. I might be overly swayed by his explosive talent on ST, but I have to believe he would excel on another team, in a different system. I think so Dean. Hey, we all want him to do well, but he hasn't been able to do it in 4 years. I really thought he could of been a good slot guy, but he has been given the opportunity more than a few times. I think it is more than not being able to run good routes, it's probably that he isn't able to get off the line of scrimmage effectively, he may not have good WR IQ in finding the soft spots. As a matter of fact, I do remember on a couple occasions where it looked like the ball was thrown into an area, and he seemed to not read it right. 4 years is ample time, and the bottom line is he has never shown anything that has resembled consistant good WR play. I thought that he was going to be one hell of a slot receiver. Who knows? Maybe 5 years is a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 4 years is ample time, and the bottom line is he has never shown anything that has resembled consistant good WR play. In a REAL NFL offense, I'd agree. But given the clusterfuc# the Bills have run, I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I believe the only time you have to let the defense substitute is if you substitute. Ohterwise you don't have to wait for anything. Yeah, that's exactly right, but he seemed to be saying that we change personnel creating a mismatch and then prevent them from subbing. He was referring to the Bills in the first year of the K-Gun, when part of their M.O. was indeed substituting and trying to prevent the defenses from matching it. If memory serves anyway. Outside of substitutions, the thing that creates mismatches in the first place is having personnel who are very adaptable. Thurman, for instance, could run or catch passes with the absolute best of them. Switch where he lined up and you had a mismatch. Do we have anyone like that now? I don't see it, though perhaps they just haven't been used that way. Both Marshawn and Jackson are excellent RBs, and good out of the backfield, but I don't see them causing tremors of fear if they lined up out wide. McKeller was the other guy who was extremely adaptable. Right now our new TE, Nelson, is a good reciever but won't cause fear as a blocker, though he could develop in that direction. He's unlikely to be a full-time TE this year. Right now, I just don't see it, at least not as more than a sometime thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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