Alphadawg7 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I dont get all these people proclaiming that the DB picks were a waste because we are loaded... How are we loaded? We have just one proven CB in McGee and a young Leodis with few starts under his belt who is still unproven as a full time starter. Behind them, we have Florence who has been torched consistently when lined up as a CB, so if has to step in for McGee or Leodis we would be in trouble. Behind him, we have Corner and Youboty, both are promising but still unproven. 3 of the 5 have seemed to be injured frequently... Our safeties have been grossly unproductive with everyone outside of Whitner suited more as a backup role than a really good starter. So, we draft a FS who was the second highest rated S prospect by most grades, and a CB in the 6th round that was a 3rd round grade. Why is this a problem for so many people? We got torched by teams like AZ and NE when Brady was there (and he is back this year in case you forgot), and that was when we had Greer who would still likely be the 2nd starter on this team this year if he was still here. Let me ask you this...what happened the last 2 games against Brady and Moss? We were not even competitive... So, our defensive backfield has potential, but lots of question marks still, so its no wonder we took a guy in the 6th who was probably the highest graded player still on their board. Then the guy Lankster was drafted as a ST player, and was probably April's pick as he was a standout ST guy in college and Pitt was high on his trail too... I think Cary in the 6th was a great pick, and apparently this Lankster kid has lots of potential and may surprise a lot of us...overall, a great draft for us on paper. The funny thing is, we grabbed an OT in FA right after the draft that people wanted, but if we took him in the 7th we would have lost Lankster in 7th to Pittsburgh...so we made the right choice.
BuffaloBill Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I dont get all these people proclaiming that the DB picks were a waste because we are loaded... How are we loaded? ADawg7 (are 1-6 on the board? ) - great post. Yoboughty was a gamer last year until he was hurt. Greer went down for part of the season (and is now gone) McGee is not getting younger and Corner is unproven. Remember that Whitner actually lined up in the dime package as a corner for a couple of games last year due to the injury situation. I agree that our starting two CB's are solid, Whitner is solid at SS but all other roles - Nickel, dime and FS are very much up for grabs.
billsfan714 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I think were thin. Since Byrd is going to play safety and we only drafted a 6th and 7th round CB. Im hoping we target CB in the first round next year---snark.
colin Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 most on this board seem to think that all that matters is the lines on either side of the ball. corners, safties, even if they make up 4-6 guys out of 11 on every snap on d besides defense don't matter. if the opponents put out 4 wide (like the pats do so many downs) we can just switch to 34 and cover them with 3 350 pound nose tackles!!
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Because the team is very likely to keep 5 CBs, and the only way that a 6th or 7th round CB has a chance of making this team is to beat out a 4th round pick from last year whom the team likes and played reasonably well for a 4th round rookie? McGee is here for sure. Leodis is a starter for sure. Florence was paid 6-7 million for two years to be a nickel back and veteran insurance and is a virtual lock. Youboty was playing as well as any CB we had last year before he got hurt and unless he gets hurt again he is a virtual lock. Reggie Corner is the lone vulnerable spot on the roster. Dustin Fox was signed twice by the Bills and played on their practice squad last year. He was a former 3rd rounder with better size and knows the system. I would say he has at least as good a chance to make the team if one of the five above gets hurt or cut. He is probably out of PS eligibility though. I wouldn't call the team stacked at CB but I would call the odds of either of these guys stacked against them. I would think that one or both of them will be on the PS. McGee as well as Youboty are both in the last year of their contracts I think. But no one, not even the Bills, is going to count on a 6th or 7th round pick as the heir apparent, even to the open roster spot.
AlbanyBill Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Because the team is very likely to keep 5 CBs, and the only way that a 6th or 7th round CB has a chance of making this team is to beat out a 4th round pick from last year whom the team likes and played reasonably well for a 4th round rookie? McGee is here for sure. Leodis is a starter for sure. Florence was paid 6-7 million for two years to be a nickel back and veteran insurance and is a virtual lock. Youboty was playing as well as any CB we had last year before he got hurt and unless he gets hurt again he is a virtual lock. Reggie Corner is the lone vulnerable spot on the roster. I agree. I wouldn't call us stacked at DB either but it was not a need as much as say an OT or a DT.
FLFan Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Prior to the draft the Bills had 11 DBs on the roster - 6 corners and 5 safetys. Out of that group, they keep at least 9 and likley 10. That does not leave much room for competition. Anyone really believe it is not possible to find upgrades over the second tier of this group? Of course it is. They needed competition and depth at this position. They have addressed the depth issue at OT and DT through UDFAs. Little difference to me between a 6th or 7th round draft choice and a UDFA. I understand the concern that we seem to be focussed on DBs, but the reality is you need more DBs than any other position and you have to plan for injuries and keep compeition in the group. No problem at all with these picks from my perspective, and I am thrilled we finally drafted what looks to be a potential legitimate free safety in Round 2, especially when 3 out of 4 picks in rounds 1 and 2 were linemen. (of course if they went DB in the first round I would have puked in my beer)
Cash Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Because the team is very likely to keep 5 CBs, and the only way that a 6th or 7th round CB has a chance of making this team is to beat out a 4th round pick from last year whom the team likes and played reasonably well for a 4th round rookie? McGee is here for sure. Leodis is a starter for sure. Florence was paid 6-7 million for two years to be a nickel back and veteran insurance and is a virtual lock. Youboty was playing as well as any CB we had last year before he got hurt and unless he gets hurt again he is a virtual lock. Reggie Corner is the lone vulnerable spot on the roster. Dustin Fox was signed twice by the Bills and played on their practice squad last year. He was a former 3rd rounder with better size and knows the system. I would say he has at least as good a chance to make the team if one of the five above gets hurt or cut. He is probably out of PS eligibility though. I wouldn't call the team stacked at CB but I would call the odds of either of these guys stacked against them. I would think that one or both of them will be on the PS. McGee as well as Youboty are both in the last year of their contracts I think. But no one, not even the Bills, is going to count on a 6th or 7th round pick as the heir apparent, even to the open roster spot. Excellent post. For a team that was 22nd against the run and 14th against the pass last year, the Bills sure seem to think the D-line is way ahead of the secondary. The only addition they've made to the defensive line was to draft a situational pass rusher. I would argue that until Schobel shows he can still play at his age and is healthy, we have 1 legitimate NFL starter on the defensive line. And since our scheme supposedly relies on frequently rotating in fresh bodies, we should really be shooting for the kind of depth the Giants have. After Day 1, my Giants-fan buddy & I went through their D-line, and I think they had 6 or 7 players who would start over either Williams or Kelsay. You can justify the picks in the secondary all you want, but defensive success usually starts with the line, and ours was really bad for the last 2 years. What have the Bills done this offseason to address the run D?
JasoninMT Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Here's a question for the "questioners"... I agree wholeheartedly that we need an OT. I don't think a 6-7th round OT was going to fit the bill - or if they would, we have one already in Bell who was here for a full year last season. I'll remind you, Peters was an Undrafted FA TE project who took a few years to develop into the LT he became... an LT who was oft injured and whined about salary. I thought he deserved more $, as did most... but, let's not kid ourselves... he was an undrafted FA who the Bills spent time & money grooming into a starting OT. No offense to our friend Tim Graham... but I don't think the media knows much more than we do when it comes to evaluating the talent on any team... The coaches and FO staff knows what they have already on the roster, and maybe, just maybe, the Bills didn't need an OT as much as "we" think the Bills do. I single him out because his was one of many articles berating the Bills for neglecting their "need". I think Peters was a bit overrated. I also think the upgrades in the interior of the line are going to help a lot. But those are only the opinions of a largely unknowing "fan".
DazedandConfused Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Because the team is very likely to keep 5 CBs, and the only way that a 6th or 7th round CB has a chance of making this team is to beat out a 4th round pick from last year whom the team likes and played reasonably well for a 4th round rookie? McGee is here for sure. Leodis is a starter for sure. Florence was paid 6-7 million for two years to be a nickel back and veteran insurance and is a virtual lock. Youboty was playing as well as any CB we had last year before he got hurt and unless he gets hurt again he is a virtual lock. Reggie Corner is the lone vulnerable spot on the roster. Dustin Fox was signed twice by the Bills and played on their practice squad last year. He was a former 3rd rounder with better size and knows the system. I would say he has at least as good a chance to make the team if one of the five above gets hurt or cut. He is probably out of PS eligibility though. I wouldn't call the team stacked at CB but I would call the odds of either of these guys stacked against them. I would think that one or both of them will be on the PS. McGee as well as Youboty are both in the last year of their contracts I think. But no one, not even the Bills, is going to count on a 6th or 7th round pick as the heir apparent, even to the open roster spot. Add in consideration of ST play which ultimately will be the true determinant whether we keep an extra CB or an extra safety or a WR or LB and I think that your cut on this is pretty much on target. I think that the April assessment of which player was a better ST candidate or not made the ultimate decision on whether we drafted more DBs or some other position.
bladiebla Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Here's a question for the "questioners"... I agree wholeheartedly that we need an OT. Not addressing the LT 'need' shows that the coaching staff is confident that they have a better quality LT allready onboard then what they could get in this draft. What the press seems to have forgotten is that the team prepped without the LT we shall not name and even started the 2008 season without him. The whole holdout was in that sense a blessing in disguise since it forced the coaching staff to create a solution and now have the experience of allready having tested alternatives to the LT we shall not name. It remains a gamble, but at least it's an educated one. Without pointing 11.5 sacks into the direction of the former LT it should be possible to keep the sacks coming from the leftside to or below 8 without him.
tjprime Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Will James > Drayton Florence. Uh oh! Actually it might be: Drayton Florence 2009=Wil James 2008 I have to agree here. Everybody who thinks Florence is guaranteed a spot because they signed him this off season need to remember James last year. Despite being signed, he was outplayed and released. And If I remember right his deal was eerily similar to the one Florence received.
Virgil Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 The overall question is are we drafting CB's in precaution to possible injury or soon to be Free Agents. If healthy, I think we are set with McGee, McKelvin, Youbooty, and Corner. But, as stated, two of those guys were hurt last year. Plus, McGee is possibly not going to be with the team next year. For that, if these guys have a possibility to step up and play well, then great. But if those guys don't get hurt, which is hard to ever bank on, what are these rookies going to do? My issue with drafting CB's is that we drafted not 1, but 2 when there were other needs out there for us. I don't expect to find a starting DT or OT in the 6th or 7th, but there was value to be had for quality depth. Overall, I think i'm upset because this makes me believe that we have no intention of resigning McGee which will just be another player we groom only to let walk and is another sign of our team's financial failings.
WordByrd Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Will James > Drayton Florence. Uh oh! Will James is garbage
el Tigre Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Excellent post. I agree on all points. The only move I questioned was taking Byrd when Everette Brown was availiable. Brown would have been a great value at that point,I'm not so sure Byrd was. But obviously,the FO had Byrd higher on their board and he would not have made it to our next pick. FSU pass-rushers do not have a great track record in the NFL either. Overall I think it was a very good draft.
The Rev.Mattb74 ESQ. Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I think the frustration comes out of the last four years the bills have had 35 picks- 12 have been for DB's. It is a little disproportionate to the teams needs. I do not care as much this year do to the fact they actually used good picks to address the lines, which in years past they have not.
Trader Posted April 29, 2009 Posted April 29, 2009 I dont get all these people proclaiming that the DB picks were a waste because we are loaded... How are we loaded? We have just one proven CB in McGee and a young Leodis with few starts under his belt who is still unproven as a full time starter. Behind them, we have Florence who has been torched consistently when lined up as a CB, so if has to step in for McGee or Leodis we would be in trouble. Behind him, we have Corner and Youboty, both are promising but still unproven. 3 of the 5 have seemed to be injured frequently... Our safeties have been grossly unproductive with everyone outside of Whitner suited more as a backup role than a really good starter. So, we draft a FS who was the second highest rated S prospect by most grades, and a CB in the 6th round that was a 3rd round grade. Why is this a problem for so many people? We got torched by teams like AZ and NE when Brady was there (and he is back this year in case you forgot), and that was when we had Greer who would still likely be the 2nd starter on this team this year if he was still here. Let me ask you this...what happened the last 2 games against Brady and Moss? We were not even competitive... So, our defensive backfield has potential, but lots of question marks still, so its no wonder we took a guy in the 6th who was probably the highest graded player still on their board. Then the guy Lankster was drafted as a ST player, and was probably April's pick as he was a standout ST guy in college and Pitt was high on his trail too... I think Cary in the 6th was a great pick, and apparently this Lankster kid has lots of potential and may surprise a lot of us...overall, a great draft for us on paper. The funny thing is, we grabbed an OT in FA right after the draft that people wanted, but if we took him in the 7th we would have lost Lankster in 7th to Pittsburgh...so we made the right choice. I am as guilty as anyone I almost choaked when they picked Cary at 2 but recovered with the Nelson Pick. And then when Brandt was singing Lanksters praises and they drafted Bell who has a ton of potential I was good to go. I want a Vet Linebacker though. I also think we bring another QB in.
Alphadawg7 Posted April 29, 2009 Author Posted April 29, 2009 The overall question is are we drafting CB's in precaution to possible injury or soon to be Free Agents. If healthy, I think we are set with McGee, McKelvin, Youbooty, and Corner. But, as stated, two of those guys were hurt last year. Plus, McGee is possibly not going to be with the team next year. For that, if these guys have a possibility to step up and play well, then great. But if those guys don't get hurt, which is hard to ever bank on, what are these rookies going to do? My issue with drafting CB's is that we drafted not 1, but 2 when there were other needs out there for us. I don't expect to find a starting DT or OT in the 6th or 7th, but there was value to be had for quality depth. Overall, I think i'm upset because this makes me believe that we have no intention of resigning McGee which will just be another player we groom only to let walk and is another sign of our team's financial failings. I actually think the Bills will resign McGee. They have already said that resigning him is a priority. It wont be like Clements because of his age. He isnt going to become the highest paid defensive player in history like Clements got (which has since been eclipsed by more recent free agents). McGee wants to stay and the Bills have said he is a top priority. So we will see, but I think McGee stays, and I am pretty sure thats why they didnt offer more to keep Greer.
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