From an ACTUAL Source

[The Big Cat]

The point is simple as the one you keep trying to push: talent.

 

You keep harping how Jauron had no talent to work with. You state the previous regime roster had to be blown up, yet you still fail to state WHY. You only defense was because the FO said they would.

 

Because any "success" the Bills had during the twilight of the Donahoe era resulted from the team being propped up by flashy well-worn band-aids. Said band-aids were the first to go.

 

 

Yet, Jauron has replace "talent" he has acquired. Then you defend that position by saying nobody is perfect.

 

I think this "talent" acquired now ='s talent replaced applies to Dockery and Dockery alone. None of the other "talent" brought in was a.) a downgrade from what was already here/blown up or b.) ever expected NOR paid like they were long term solutions.

 

Funny, how does other coaches in this league deal with the exact same problems Jauron has had to face, yet they are able to achieve better results?

 

Hahaha, other coaches? Specifically whom?

[Heels20X6]

I already did.

 

and no, there aren't "countless example." That's something you made up. There are a lot of teams that have a sudden spike, then settle back into mediocrity. Is that what you want?

 

 

No, you didn't. You pointed the finger to one position - the QB and claimed that all those teams rose up because of QB play.

 

The reality of it is (and I use "reality" knowing full well that you have no concept of what reality is except one where Jauron is the greatest coach in the world, has won multiple Super Bowls, and has used his charm, grace and civility to broker peace agreements between Israel and Palestine) their coaches too average (in the case of Pennington) and very inexperienced (in the case of Ryan and Joe Flacco) and devised game plans to protect their short comings and put their teams in a position to win. With JP and Trent you just CANNOT make the argument that Dick J and his merry band of misfits have set up our QBs with the coaching to win.

 

Now back to your dream world of Dick Jauron - Time Man of the Century.

[The Big Cat]

No, you didn't. You pointed the finger to one position - the QB and claimed that all those teams rose up because of QB play.

 

The reality of it is (and I use "reality" knowing full well that you have no concept of what reality is except one where Jauron is the greatest coach in the world, has won multiple Super Bowls, and has used his charm, grace and civility to broker peace agreements between Israel and Palestine) their coaches too average (in the case of Pennington) and very inexperienced (in the case of Ryan and Joe Flacco) and devised game plans to protect their short comings and put their teams in a position to win. With JP and Trent you just CANNOT make the argument that Dick J and his merry band of misfits have set up our QBs with the coaching to win.

 

Now back to your dream world of Dick Jauron - Time Man of the Century.

 

 

Dude, if players don't make a difference, then why bother following the draft of FA, why bother buying jerseys, or playing fantasy football?

 

Are you suggesting team's DON'T rise up because of QB? Are you that dim?

[Heels20X6]

Dude, if players don't make a difference, then why bother following the draft of FA, why bother buying jerseys, or playing fantasy football?

 

Are you suggesting team's DON'T rise up because of QB? Are you that dim?

 

Not as dim as you seem to be thinking that Dick's coaching has nothing to do with how Trent performs on the field. But hey, it's all good right since they are BFF's texting each other all hours of the night.

[The Big Cat]

Not as dim as you seem to be thinking that Dick's coaching has nothing to do with how Trent performs on the field. But hey, it's all good right since they are BFF's texting each other all hours of the night.

 

Okay, then please show me the correlation between Trent lacking the sack to look deep and coaching. Please show me the correlation between having NO WR PRODUCTION when Reed went down, and coaching.

 

You can't.

 

You can speculate all you want, but the reality is, you CAN'T make those correlations because YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE SCHEME IS, WHAT THE PLAY CALL IS, WHAT EACH PLAYER'S RESPONSIBILITY IS, ETC. That hasn't stopped you from assuming each of the aforementioned and then using it as your argument against the coach. Ludicrous.

[Heels20X6]

Okay, then please show me the correlation between Trent lacking the sack to look deep and coaching. Please show me the correlation between having NO WR PRODUCTION when Reed went down, and coaching.

 

You can't.

 

You can speculate all you want, but the reality is, you CAN'T make those correlations because YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE SCHEME IS, WHAT THE PLAY CALL IS, WHAT EACH PLAYER'S RESPONSIBILITY IS, ETC. That hasn't stopped you from assuming each of the aforementioned and then using it as your argument against the coach. Ludicrous.

 

 

I seriously cannot believe that you cannot see the correlation between the NINE seasons of poor quarterback play that has followed Dick Jauron everywhere he has coached and the struggles of Trent Edwards.

 

Yes, it is speculative...but if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

 

We get it. You love Dick Jauron the same way a mother loves her screw-up son.

[Cynical]

You can speculate all you want, but the reality is, you CAN'T make those correlations because YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE SCHEME IS, WHAT THE PLAY CALL IS, WHAT EACH PLAYER'S RESPONSIBILITY IS, ETC. That hasn't stopped you from assuming each of the aforementioned and then using it as your argument against the coach. Ludicrous.

 

And neither can you in your defense of the almighty Jauron. Because you do not know what the was called, you do not know if the WR ran the wrong route, and you have no idea if Jauron told him not to throw it deep.

[GG]

Well, the argument that he's been unable to build a roster in three years was initially addressed when I said NOBODY can build a roster in three years- especially one that's bloated with young, unproven talent.

 

You are correct. And it makes it doubly hard to build the roster considering you have to rebuild it every three years. After all, you can't hit it with every single draft pick & FA acquisition.

[The Big Cat]

I seriously cannot believe that you cannot see the correlation between the NINE seasons of poor quarterback play that has followed Dick Jauron everywhere he has coached and the struggles of Trent Edwards.

 

Yes, it is speculative...but if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

 

We get it. You love Dick Jauron the same way a mother loves her screw-up son.

 

Yeah, I see the correlation alright:

 

1 season with JP Losman

Trent's first two seasons and then these gems:

 

Cade McNown, UCLA: Petulant, arrogant, smarmy, you name a few adjectives to describe the quarterback predicted to be the next Jim McMahon. Declared that he didn't drink, smoke or have premarital sex, but he was indicted for misusing handicapped parking placards. Angered his teammates so much that they reportedly threatened mutiny if he were started over Matthews in the final game of 2000. Had brief stops in Miami and San Francisco but never threw another pass in the NFL following a final completion against Detroit in the 2000 finale. Did pocket close to $20 million on his rookie deal. Drafted: 1999 (1) Started in: 1999-2000 Traded: 2001

 

Jim Miller, Michigan State: Miller was signed off the scrapheap in 1998 following Moreno's knee injury. He was a longshot to make the roster in 1999. He responded by throwing for huge numbers in Crowton's offense, then led the Bears to the playoffs in 2001. Almost as oft-injured as McMahon. Signed a five-year extension prior to the 2002 season, only completed one year on the deal. Signed: 1998 Started in: 1999-2002 Released: 2003

 

Chris Chandler, Washington: See Dave Krieg. Again, wasn't supposed to have to play for Miller. Again, had to replace Miller in week seven. Chandler was as injury-prone as McMahon and Miller, and was knocked woozy in Champaign against Philadelphia. Had to be dragged like an invalid to the medical trailer behind the Memorial Stadium scoreboard. Turned in gritty performances in 2003 in relief of Kordell Stewart, but it was for naught. Signed: 2002 Started in: 2002-2003 Not resigned: 2004

 

Henry Burris, Temple: Touted as the biggest surprise from the CFL since, and better than, Jeff Garcia. "Happy Hank" was his nickname. One pathetic start in Chicago is his legacy. Signed: 2002 Started in: 2002 Released: 2003

 

EDIT: sorry, taken from: Link

[The Big Cat]

And neither can you in your defense of the almighty Jauron. Because you do not know what the was called, you do not know if the WR ran the wrong route, and you have no idea if Jauron told him not to throw it deep.

 

I agree 100% which--as was the point of this thread--is why I base my favorable opinion on the INTANGIBLES because that's one thing everyone agrees on. When I cite game-day mistakes, I cite fumbles, picks, missed field goals, dropped passes, etc. Those are mistakes that happen IN THE PRESENT. You can argue all day that those types of blunders fall on the coach for not having his team prepared but I'll continue to say that's complete nonsense. Players make or break the plays. Bottom line. Trent had audible authority last year.

 

You are correct. And it makes it doubly hard to build the roster considering you have to rebuild it every three years. After all, you can't hit it with every single draft pick & FA acquisition.

 

Yep, and that's why I think longevity is the answer. I don't know if you're agreeing with me here, or coyly trying to make me look "foolish."

[GG]

Yep, and that's why I think longevity is the answer. I don't know if you're agreeing with me here, or coyly trying to make me look "foolish."

 

I fully agree with you. That's why it's important to have a man in charge who is a good judge of personnel. And, if he's a nice guy, it's a bonus.

[Not the real Gale Gilbert]

Dick Jauron is not responsible for all of the talent that is currently on the roster. He is, however, responsable for such game day calls as ...

 

1) Running 3 times into the middle to burn Cleveland's timeouts at the end of the Monday Night game last year, setting up a 47 yd FG into a wind. How did that turn out?

 

2) Calling the Losman rollout against the Jets last year

 

3) Numerous challenge nightmares.

 

4) Punting from the Pats 39 near the end of the first half.

 

And I'm sure there are others. I'm not local so I don't get to watch all of the games. There are plenty of good people who get along with the people they work with, but still aren't suited for their job. Jauron is one of them.

 

There are 8 rookie coaches in the NFL this year. The Bills could have went 7-9 with one of them, too.

[The Big Cat]

I fully agree with you. That's why it's important to have a man in charge who is a good judge of personnel. And, if he's a nice guy, it's a bonus.

 

Well, the problem with being a "good judge of personnel" is that one young player can single-handedly vault you to the next level, provided he's a quarterback.

 

We could have taken that chance with Leinart. I'm glad we didn't.

 

But ultimately, I hope I'm demonstrating what a daunting task building a young team is, given the unpredictable volatility of the quarterback position.

 

Simply put, it's a conundrum.

[Ramius]

Yeah, Trent being unprepared caused him to throw interceptions to end Buffalo's first three possessions. Yep. Okay.

 

Trent came out and said that he was not prepared for what cleveland gave to him. This is inexcusable over halfway through the season. What exactly were jauron and co. preparing him for? a 4-3 defense? the 46?

 

Also, please explain how it is the players' fault that Marshawn got 1 carry in the final 25 minutes of a 1 score game when he was averaging 8.4 yards per carry. Dick and turk both knew how well ML was running that day, and if turk refused to put him in, then dick needs to grow a pair and override turk. When a manager sees his underlings screwing up, its his responsibility to correct those mistakes.

Please explain how it is the players fault that the game plan often times fails to adjust to what the other team is doing.

Please explain as to why the coaches seem baffled after a loss, stating things like, "it worked on friday."

Please how the players are responsible for a ridiculously bad track record in challenges.

Please explain how the players are responsible for calling 3 straight runs and settling for a 52 yard FG into the wind instead of gaining more yardage to make the FG easier.

 

These things are the coaches' fault not the players.

[The Big Cat]

Dick Jauron is not responsible for all of the talent that is currently on the roster. He is, however, responsable for such game day calls as ...

 

1) Running 3 times into the middle to burn Cleveland's timeouts at the end of the Monday Night game last year, setting up a 47 yd FG into a wind. How did that turn out? How did all the previous pass attempts turn out? Lindell missed the field goal. But you're upset because they ran the ball. And I understand that. You saw the pass Trent made to Royal up the thread and thought we should have put the game in his hands. After all, up that point Lynch averaged 5.3 ypc and Trent was 16/26 with 3 ints. Yeah, I see your point.

 

2) Calling the Losman rollout against the Jets last year. Yeah, and if he doesn't fumble the ball which gets recovered/returned for a touch down (a highly unlikely series of events no matter WHO the quarterback is) and the play STILL fails, we have still have another shot at the heart-in the dagger first down. If the play WORKS, the game is over. No questions asked. It would have been a first down and would the Jets would have had 1 TO with 2:00 to play. You would have preferred they run the ball three straight times, but then get worried when the coaches don't show the dagger in the throat mentality.

 

3) Numerous challenge nightmares. OH PLEASE! TALK ABOUT PETTY BULLSH-T! Either give an example or stop bringing up this crap.

 

4) Punting from the Pats 39 near the end of the first half. ??

 

And I'm sure there are others. I'm not local so I don't get to watch all of the games. There are plenty of good people who get along with the people they work with, but still aren't suited for their job. Jauron is one of them.

 

There are 8 rookie coaches in the NFL this year. The Bills could have went 7-9 with one of them, too.

[Cynical]

I agree 100% which--as was the point of this thread--is why I base my favorable opinion on the INTANGIBLES because that's one thing everyone agrees on. When I cite game-day mistakes, I cite fumbles, picks, missed field goals, dropped passes, etc. Those are mistakes that happen IN THE PRESENT. You can argue all day that those types of blunders fall on the coach for not having his team prepared but I'll continue to say that's complete nonsense. Players make or break the plays. Bottom line. Trent had audible authority last year.

 

You can cite intangibles all you want. But you have been unable to prove those intangibles have any bearing on Jauron being a productive coach.

 

Your entire argument is based on the ASSUMPTION those intangibles equate to being a good productive coach.

Unfortunately for you, 1 winning season out of 8 proves you wrong.

[GG]

Well, the problem with being a "good judge of personnel" is that one young player can single-handedly vault you to the next level, provided he's a quarterback.

 

We could have taken that chance with Leinart. I'm glad we didn't.

 

But ultimately, I hope I'm demonstrating what a daunting task building a young team is, given the unpredictable volatility of the quarterback position.

 

Simply put, it's a conundrum.

 

I agree. It's all about the QB. Good ones need less than two seconds to decide which side of his helmet will hit the turf first. If you find the one who makes the right choice, he's a keeper.

[The Big Cat]

Trent came out and said that he was not prepared for what cleveland gave to him. This is inexcusable over halfway through the season. What exactly were jauron and co. preparing him for? a 4-3 defense? the 46?

 

Also, please explain how it is the players' fault that Marshawn got 1 carry in the final 25 minutes of a 1 score game when he was averaging 8.4 yards per carry. Dick and turk both knew how well ML was running that day, and if turk refused to put him in, then dick needs to grow a pair and override turk. When a manager sees his underlings screwing up, its his responsibility to correct those mistakes.

 

This is the one head-scratcher I'll give you. But lest we forget we lost by 7, and on that day Lindell missed not one but TWO chip shots, and as a result we went for it on 4th down inside the red zone unsuccessfully. There's 9 points that should have one the game. But I can't answer why Marshawn only got 16 carries that game. I WILL give you that one.

 

Please explain how it is the players fault that the game plan often times fails to adjust to what the other team is doing.

 

Nobody here can substantiate this.

 

Please explain as to why the coaches seem baffled after a loss, stating things like, "it worked on friday."

 

I could give two sh-ts about any of these guys say to the media, especially Jauron, a guy who's notorious for falling on the sword for his players.

 

Please how the players are responsible for a ridiculously bad track record in challenges.

 

I defy you to look up this statistic. I'd be willing to place a friendly wager saying more than 50% of Jauron's challenges have been successful. If you can name enough non-challenges what would unquestionably thwart that statistic, I'll shut up about this issue, but until then, this is a load of crap!

 

Please explain how the players are responsible for calling 3 straight runs and settling for a 52 yard FG into the wind instead of gaining more yardage to make the FG easier.

 

If you're referring to the Browns game, it was a.) a 47 yarder, and b.) I already explained this one.

 

These things are the coaches' fault not the players.

[thewildrabbit]

I would also like to add into the fray the fact that this is another professional source. You know, someone who actually knows something about what Dick Jauron does aside from what's shown on TV.

 

I see the same tired examples being thrown around- time out management, challenge management, play calling, blah blah blah. None of them have or ever will change my mind about Jauron. I think he's a great coach, and I think citing a handful of wayward challenges in three years is weak sauce.

 

I love that someone said [bad challengers/wasted time outs] happen so often he "can't remember them all." Well gee, isn't that convenient. As the last Jauron support left in Bill nation I watched the guy like a HAWK for the last 7 games of 2008 waiting for these so called "chronic" mistakes. Hardly saw a one.

 

If he had a talented roster, I think you'd all agree that petty things like TO's and challenges are basically non-issues. If you're enraged about me calling these particular blunders "non-issues", then cite specific losses (more than one) which were ultimately deterred by a wayward challenge/TO, and I'll show you A DOZEN player mistakes which should have rendered the slight time difference obselete.

 

I don't buy the "players' mistakes are coaches' mistakes" argument, so please don't bring that sh-t.

 

I'd venture to say that the 2009 Bills might be the most talented team he's ever coached, so before you tell me what an a-s kissing retard I am, let's just agree to reserve judgment.

Is that you...Turk Schonert?

[The Big Cat]

You can cite intangibles all you want. But you have been unable to prove those intangibles have any bearing on Jauron being a productive coach.

 

Your entire argument is based on the ASSUMPTION those intangibles equate to being a good productive coach.

Unfortunately for you, 1 winning season out of 8 proves you wrong.

 

I won't argue this at all, and I can't believe it took 10 pages for this thread to get to this point, since it's pretty easy, linear logic!

 

I ASSUME those intangibles equate to being a good coach based on the hyperbolic way these intangibles are tied to Jauron. I explained this earlier, it's almost become a joke to me how much those who know Jauron gush about the guy. There's got to be some ancillary benefits to these corroborating rumors.

 

I ASSUME those intangibles equate to being a good coach because I've played a lot of sports (9 varsity letters at a AAAA school in high school. D-1 water polo in college) and have been around sports enough to know what makes a good coach and what makes a bad coach. I've had both. I've coached with both.

 

I ASSUME these intangibles to be true because my best friend is currently studying sports psychology and is being groomed to work for the coaches development academy for US soccer based on her grad work/thesis focus. She's also my girlfriend (soon-to-be more than girlfriend if I play my cards right) and she tolerates my incessant Bills talk by supplementing the things I say with the stuff she studies.

 

But, we're talking about intangibles here, so all I can do is assume. At least now you know the sources for my informed assumptions.

 

I love Dick!