nucci Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 Butler seems undersized to me to play tackle on the right side. However, I will say this.....he was a very good right tackle opposite of Ferguson at UVA. He was very smart, had a mean streak in him, and worked very hard. Outside of that one incident at UVA, he was one of the most respected lineman in the ACC. I have no idea what that means for our Bills, but I do know he got many accolades in the ACC when he was playing RT. 6'7" and 315 lbs. How much bigger would you like him to be?
spartacus Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Butler seems undersized to me to play tackle on the right side. However, I will say this.....he was a very good right tackle opposite of Ferguson at UVA. He was very smart, had a mean streak in him, and worked very hard. Outside of that one incident at UVA, he was one of the most respected lineman in the ACC. I have no idea what that means for our Bills, but I do know he got many accolades in the ACC when he was playing RT. Butler will be a better LT than Walker He would have played LT at Virginia if they didn't have D'Brick Walker is just fat and slow
billsfan_34 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Walker better get his fat f**kin' @ss on the treadmill if he is going to play left tackle this year. I almost pissed my pants...that was funny
vincec Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 So we are talking about: Walker - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Butler? This is going to be a fiasco. Our line is going to consist entirely of new players or players playing new positions, including two rookies? Given how important chemistry is, I don't see how that is going to work out for this year even if it turns out Walker can play left tackle and Butler can play right tackle, which I doubt. I don't know what other options there are at this point, but it's looking grim. On the other hand, I really like the Shawn Nelson selection. Plus, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance.
H2o Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Video of the hit I remember seeing that on the highlights. That was the WORST CHEAPSHOT I've ever seen a player take at another guy. It was pretty crappy. That was the first thing I thought about when the Bills drafted him. You just don't do things like that. The only other one that was equally as dirty that I've seen was the Warren Sapp hit on a OL'man running down the field after an interception. The guy was no where near the play and Sapp laid him out, screwing the guy's hip up in the process.
Lurker Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Can't remember,but who played RT last season? Damit, Schopp, can't you just stick to one TSW account...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Butler is smart and was probably the best Olineman out there when not injured last year. He is big enough and quick enough and smart enough to make the transition. I would like to see if he could play LT early on in camp. Have him, Chambers, Bell and Walker rotating at both tackle positions. Find who does the best job at each one. Personally i think Walker and Butler are going to be your starters. Chambers will see a lot of time, rotating in. We will see a heck of a lot of Bell in preseason. And thus should be able to tell what he has to offer. But it is nice to have options. And quality one at that.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I remember seeing that on the highlights. That was the WORST CHEAPSHOT I've ever seen a player take at another guy. It was pretty crappy. That was the first thing I thought about when the Bills drafted him. You just don't do things like that. The only other one that was equally as dirty that I've seen was the Warren Sapp hit on a OL'man running down the field after an interception. The guy was no where near the play and Sapp laid him out, screwing the guy's hip up in the process. With regard to the Butler cheap shot, there's not much that would justify it. Of course we don't know what happened earlier in the game but it appears that he just lost his temper and went for the guys knees. Hard to imagine a situation where Butler was actually justified. Still he's a good player. My biggest concern with Butler is his durability. With regard to the Warren Sapp hit on Chad Clifton, it was a cheap shot undoubtedly. The funny thing is that by the strict letter of the law at the time it was a legal hit and in fact there was no penalty on the play. Sapp did not clip Clifton from behind, he hit him from the side, and the play was live so it was not a late hit. Sapp saw an opportunity to take someone out and he took it. It was certainly excessive force (although some argue that there is no such thing in NFL football) and after the season the NFL outlawed such hits that involved both blind side contact (while not a clipping infraction, Clifton was guilty of not having his head on a swivel and protecting himself) and excessive force.
EC-Bills Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Did Walker play on the left or the right when he was with the Raiders? He played both Tackle positions and some guard.
BillsFan74 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Did Walker play on the left or the right when he was with the Raiders? He started at RG for 2 years and then moved to RT. I think he is a RT only but time will tell. The hole at LT needs to be filled if we are going to make the playoffs. Sorry but there is nobody on the roster I want starting in NE week one at LT.
Thurman#1 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Walker better get his fat f**kin' @ss on the treadmill if he is going to play left tackle this year. He's not overweight. He's a slender 360, if such a thing is possible. And there lies the problem. Basically, when we play teams with good speed rushers, he is going to require a lot of help, and that always brings up the possibility of split double-teams, as well as fewer people to do other things.
Thurman#1 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I am a big optimist with Butler playing tackle. He was our most consistent lineman last year and consistency is key. With an obvious upgrade at center, you will have 3 young guys competing for the guard positions (Levitre, Wood, and Bell) which should provide for some decent competition for PT, which should result in strong play. With this offensive line (and the addition of Nelson and Owens), I would expect to average at least 1/2 yard more per carry on the ground. I would also expect to see a fair share of "lookout" blocks in the first half of the year while these guys are learning the playbook. Let's just hope Trent stays healthy. I expect to see them take a step back before they take a step forward. As noted above, not one guy will be playing in the same position. That's not exactly good for cohesion, and cohesion is everything on the OL.
Thurman#1 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Did Walker play on the left or the right when he was with the Raiders? They tried him at LT. He wasn't good.
Thurman#1 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 What incident at UVA pls elaborate thanks Google "Brad Butler UVA incident" and it turns up a lot.
JM57 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 So we are talking about: Walker - Wood - Hangartner - Levitre - Butler? This is going to be a fiasco. Our line is going to consist entirely of new players or players playing new positions, including two rookies? Given how important chemistry is, I don't see how that is going to work out for this year even if it turns out Walker can play left tackle and Butler can play right tackle, which I doubt. I don't know what other options there are at this point, but it's looking grim. On the other hand, I really like the Shawn Nelson selection. Plus, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance. I think what's more important is that you don't have two rookies or young guys playing next to each other anywhere, nor do you have one at center. it's veteran-rookie-veteran-rookie-veteran. Hangartner, as the C, will be the one to read opposing D-linemen and LB's and make the calls for the blocking schemes, not the possibly wide-eyed Wood. That's always a plus. It was one thing Mangold struggled with in his rookie year, and IIRC, Fewell really threw a TON of different looks at the kid that season and it really threw the Jets off their game. Walker and Butler, along with being veterans, both went to pretty prestigious schools in UC-Berkeley and Virginia. Now I'm not saying Lynch is a genius because he went to Cal too, but you know the guys at the glamor positions get the preferential treatment. An OL grunt isn't going to get as much. He's gotta have at least some semblance of above average intelligence to get a degree from those schools.
ganesh Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I expect to see them take a step back before they take a step forward. As noted above, not one guy will be playing in the same position. That's not exactly good for cohesion, and cohesion is everything on the OL. Unfortunately, the past years line's cohesion resulted in a 7-9 record....It is up to the OL coach to instill that confidence...Change happens in NFL all the time...I believe training camp will decide where Butler and Walker play (LT or RT). The rookies will play guard unless Wood is better in OTA than Haragatner at the Center position Currently Butler and Walker are their #1 and #2 players on the line and also experienced. I don't see another Tackle coming in to compete for a starting job.
stuckincincy Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 With regard to the Warren Sapp hit on Chad Clifton, it was a cheap shot undoubtedly. The funny thing is that by the strict letter of the law at the time it was a legal hit and in fact there was no penalty on the play. Sapp did not clip Clifton from behind, he hit him from the side, and the play was live so it was not a late hit. Sapp saw an opportunity to take someone out and he took it. It was certainly excessive force (although some argue that there is no such thing in NFL football) and after the season the NFL outlawed such hits that involved both blind side contact (while not a clipping infraction, Clifton was guilty of not having his head on a swivel and protecting himself) and excessive force. IIRC, the big flap over that hit was because Clifton was in no position to affect the outcome of the play.
K-9 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 A couple points: 1.) Couldn't agree more that cohesion is more important along the OL than anywhere else. And it will take some time. But, assuming these guys get to all the mandatory (at least) OTAs and go through an entire camp together they'll have a good head start. It'll be a work in progress but these are smart guys and, as someone alluded to above, we have 3 solid vets that know the nuances of D formations, etc. 2.) If we HAD to start to rookies on the OL, OG couldn't be a safer place. They aren't asked to play in space and OG is easier to pick up. Rookies can come in and make a solid contribution there. Plus, Wood and Levitre are VERY smart players. As long as Hangartner is solid on the line calls and these pick them up, I think they'll be fine. This OL is now built for smash mouth running. Nothing an OL likes better. And again, run blocking is pretty easy for rookie OGs to pick up. Especially smart, nasty ones that play with an edge. GO BILLS!!!
Pete Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 6'7" and 315 lbs. How much bigger would you like him to be?
WeAreMarshawn23 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I want to see Walker and Butler at Tackle. While they're not the most athletic tackles, their size, experience, and technique will make up for it. As long as the line is set by training camp the cohesion and continuty will be fine.
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