VOR Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Get over the stupidity of thinking that Peters was not a great LT. Walker is a HUGE downgrade. Wood for Dockery is up in the air, but I tend to agree woith the original poser, Dockery has a lot of experience Wood is untested. Maybe in the next year or two he will be an upgrade though. Hangartner is a career backup-quality guy, even with those other 2 caree backup quality guys Peters was an average LT last year. Maybe a part of that was lack of motivation because of his contract or maybe it was because his injury in 2007 robbed him of some of his ability. I don't know, but I'm glad the Bills didn't spend $11.5M/year to find out thre hard way. If anything, Walker may prove to be a slight downgrade, but it's hard to envision him giving-up as many sacks as Peters did last year, much less the half-hearted effort. Dockery blows. I'd consider Tutan Reyes (who the Giants recently signed, BTW) an even swap for him. Hangartner is an upgrade over Preston/Fowler. Hear me now, believe me later.
Thurman#1 Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 1) Walker for Peters is an upgrade.2) Wood for Dockery is an upgrade. 3) Hangartner for Fowler/Preston is an upgrade. 4) Crowell didn't even play last year. So it's not Ellison for Crowell. It's Ellison for Ellison, which is even. 5) It's not Youboty for Greer. It's McKelvin for Greer. 6) Fine/Nelson for Royal is an upgrade. 1) Don't quite know what to say here. Just stunningly wrong. Your hatred is overcoming your better sense. 2) I agree in the long term. But as a rookie, I think the OP is right, Wood for Dockery is a downgrade. 3) I think you're right on here. 4) Crowell was the starter last year. Granted, he was injured. But Ellison playing all year as a replacement is much more acceptable than Ellison playing all year as Plan A. I agree with the OP, this is a downgrade. 5) It's too early to say who will replace Greer. And neither guy was better than Greer last year, obviously. Either one is a downgrade, as of right now, but I agree with you that McKelvin has a great chance of improving enough to be considered an upgrade by the time the season hits the halfway point or so. 6) Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. This one is just a WAG.
Thurman#1 Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Peters was an average LT last year. Maybe a part of that was lack of motivation because of his contract or maybe it was because his injury in 2007 robbed him of some of his ability. I don't know, but I'm glad the Bills didn't spend $11.5M/year to find out thre hard way. If anything, Walker may prove to be a slight downgrade, but it's hard to envision him giving-up as many sacks as Peters did last year, much less the half-hearted effort. Dockery blows. I'd consider Tutan Reyes (who the Giants recently signed, BTW) an even swap for him. Hangartner is an upgrade over Preston/Fowler. Hear me now, believe me later. Peters was below average at the beginning of the year and way above average by the end of the year. It's why he made the Pro Bowl. The players on other teams saw he was hugely improved over the course of the season. And looking at the film of the sacks, Peters was responsible for maybe between 5 and 7, most of which were in the beginning of the year. Walker is a large, large downgrade. If you doubt it, try to explain why Walker hasn't had any offers of $11.5 million. Seriously, this one is as obvious as the nose on Karl Malden's face. Dockery didn't have a good year. Rookie LGs also rarely have good years. I suspect this will be a downgrade for the first year, but will look like a great move as time goes on. I'm very willing to believe you about Hangartner.
Pirate Angel Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Here's a breakdown of upgrades/downgrades at our positions for 2009-2010. Upgrades Owens for Reed Rhodes for Omon Kelsay for Kelsay on 1st&2d down + Maybin on 3d Down. Downgrades: LT Walker for Peters RT Chambers for Walker LG Lavitrie ® for Dockery C Fowler for ® Wood/2d String Hangengartner (Rosenbagger) OLB Ellison for Angelo Crowell CB Youboty for Jabari Greer Even: Fine for Robert Royal After writing this, I threw up in my mouth a little. Did I miss anything or inaccurately characterize the change? the is no such thing as a downgrade from Fowler, and having Robert Royal off the roster is an upgrade
Thurman#1 Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Butler is moving from the RG spot back to his natural position at LT.....Levitre takes over hte RG position. If nothing else this is AS GOOD as what we had last year on the right side......what you get overall is an increase in talent, and nastiness across every OL spot except for LT (Walker doesn't play with a mean streak to me) which probably means that what you give up on occasion to an edge rusher from the LT spot you are going to gain in pass protection and running up the middle....... We got weaker at one spot and got as good or better at all of the other spots..... Levitre for Butler is a downgrade. Not a small one. Butler was our second-best lineman last year. If he plays as well at RT as he did at RG, we will be very well-served indeed.
VOR Posted May 30, 2009 Posted May 30, 2009 Peters was below average at the beginning of the year and way above average by the end of the year. It's why he made the Pro Bowl. The players on other teams saw he was hugely improved over the course of the season. And looking at the film of the sacks, Peters was responsible for maybe between 5 and 7, most of which were in the beginning of the year. Walker is a large, large downgrade. If you doubt it, try to explain why Walker hasn't had any offers of $11.5 million. Seriously, this one is as obvious as the nose on Karl Malden's face. Sorry but just because Peters made the Pro Bowl, it doesn't mean he was above average. And the film shows him responsible, in whole or part, for most of those 11.5 sacks that he was charged for allowing. And Walker hasn't been offered $11.5M because...he's under contract with the Bills and isn't worth $11.5M anyway. I didn't say that Walker would duplicate Peters' season in 2007, just that he'd be no worse than Peters was last year, while the Bills groom Bell for another year.
Big Turk Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Here's a breakdown of upgrades/downgrades at our positions for 2009-2010. Upgrades Owens for Reed Rhodes for Omon Kelsay for Kelsay on 1st&2d down + Maybin on 3d Down. LG Lavitrie ® for Dockery C Hangartner for Fowler/Preston OLB Bowen for Ellison RG Wood for Butler Downgrades: LT Walker for Peters RT Butler for Walker ????OLB Ellison for Angelo Crowell--->Crowell didn't play last year, so how could it be a downgrade? CB Youboty for Jabari Greer Even: Fine for Robert Royal After writing this, I threw up in my mouth a little. Did I miss anything or inaccurately characterize the change? Yeah, you missed that the interior of the line is vastly upgraded at all 3 positions, with Butler moving to his more natural RT position... The Oline is a 5 man unit. Just because Peters is better than Walker DOES NOT mean that the offensive line as a whole was better. IMHO, this will turn out to be a better 5 man unit because of the strength of the interior of the line. Also Bowen was going to be the starter over Ellison last year had he not been hurt---from all the reports he was looking like the real deal at OLB in camp... Not sure how Ellison can be a downgrade when Crowell didn't even play last year. For the most part, the Bills have significantly upgraded their talent on the offensive side of the ball, and I think Peters will be missed more in theory than in actual game situations...
GOBILLS78 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Youboty is great, when healthy. The others that are highlighted I think you're definitely wrong about. If you pissed him off my sisters cat would be better than Fowler. JMO How did he not get a punch?
spartacus Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 One thing is for certain......opposing defenses will be dialing up ways to get pressure from Langston's side until we prove we can stop it...... We might need to keep a TE in to chip we might need a TE??? The entire offense will be handicapped because they will need to commit a TE / RB to help Walker on every pass play longer than 5 yards. not sure how effective TEs and RBs will be taking on elite pass rushers after they get by Walker. Walker is too slow and has no lateral movement to keep up with speed rushers. It will be even a bigger joke if the braintrust does not plan for this from day 1. The coaches in the AFC east will have a field day alternating between testing the rookies inside and exploiting Walker's fatness.
VOR Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 we might need a TE??? The entire offense will be handicapped because they will need to commit a TE / RB to help Walker on every pass play longer than 5 yards. not sure how effective TEs and RBs will be taking on elite pass rushers after they get by Walker. Walker is too slow and has no lateral movement to keep up with speed rushers. It will be even a bigger joke if the braintrust does not plan for this from day 1. The coaches in the AFC east will have a field day alternating between testing the rookies inside and exploiting Walker's fatness. Nothing some good reverses, screen passes, and slants won't cure.
spartacus Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Nothing some good reverses, screen passes, and slants won't cure. which gets us back to our inept OC & HC where have these plays been for the last 3 years???? what seismic shift in philosphy will dictate they put these plays in the playbook and actually calling them during games in 2009?
VOR Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 which gets us back to our inept OC & HC where have these plays been for the last 3 years???? what seismic shift in philosphy will dictate they put these plays in the playbook and actually calling them during games in 2009? Schonert just became the OC last year. As for slant patters, TO is a master of them, so expect to see them more. The screens have been attempted and will probably be used more with 2 threats at WR now. As for reverses, that will depend on how much pressure RDE's get on Walker.
mousetrap08 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Youboty is great, when healthy. The others that are highlighted I think you're definitely wrong about. If you pissed him off my sisters cat would be better than Fowler. JMO love your driving kitty
ans4e64 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 1) Don't quite know what to say here. Just stunningly wrong. Your hatred is overcoming your better sense.2) I agree in the long term. But as a rookie, I think the OP is right, Wood for Dockery is a downgrade. 3) I think you're right on here. 4) Crowell was the starter last year. Granted, he was injured. But Ellison playing all year as a replacement is much more acceptable than Ellison playing all year as Plan A. I agree with the OP, this is a downgrade. 5) It's too early to say who will replace Greer. And neither guy was better than Greer last year, obviously. Either one is a downgrade, as of right now, but I agree with you that McKelvin has a great chance of improving enough to be considered an upgrade by the time the season hits the halfway point or so. 6) Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. This one is just a WAG. 1.) Walker was better when he played LT last year than when Peters was in. However, I have serious doubts about Walker being able to play well over the course of the entire season. I view this as a downgrade to Peters. But, what were we supposed to do, pay him the $11.5 mil? 2.) Wood is no longer the replacement to Dockery, but in keeping with the thought, I think even as a rookie he will be better. Dockery was downright aweful last year, and bad the year before as well. He was only decent his first year here. Wood will definitely play better than Dockery did last year. 4.) Ellison started last year. Crowell didn't even play in 1 game. There is no way you can say Ellison is replacing anyone but Ellison.
alias Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 If you pissed him off my sisters cat would be better than Fowler. An absolute classic!!
BB Fan 4 LIFE Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 Just a quick Amendment: Walker at LT/RT to WTF? who knows? DOWNGRADE T - 6 DAYS PRIOR TO THE START OF THE SEASON
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Walker for Peters is an upgrade. HAHAHA! This is THE MOST retarded thing I have EVER heard or seen in my life! You are gonna sit here and try to tell me that Langston Walker (unemployed) is a better option at Left Tackle than Jason Peters (starter/2x pro-bowler)????????????????????????????????????????????????? Please pass the pipe! (or learn a thing or 2 about football)
ans4e64 Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 HAHAHA! This is THE MOST retarded thing I have EVER heard or seen in my life! You are gonna sit here and try to tell me that Langston Walker (unemployed) is a better option at Left Tackle than Jason Peters (starter/2x pro-bowler)????????????????????????????????????????????????? Please pass the pipe! (or learn a thing or 2 about football) Walker for Peters was an upgrade for the same reasons that Donte Stallworth was an upgrade to T.O, Orlando Scandrick an upgrade to Pacman Jones, and Glen Holt an upgrade over Chris Henry. The dude didn't want to be on the Bills and his attitude more than showed it. Just getting his lazy azz off this roster is an upgrade. I know it's hard for idiots like you to understand, but there is more to putting together a football team than just talent.
BB Fan 4 LIFE Posted September 9, 2009 Author Posted September 9, 2009 HAHAHA! This is THE MOST retarded thing I have EVER heard or seen in my life! You are gonna sit here and try to tell me that Langston Walker (unemployed) is a better option at Left Tackle than Jason Peters (starter/2x pro-bowler)????????????????????????????????????????????????? Please pass the pipe! (or learn a thing or 2 about football) Oh but how certain people insisted... It's incredible! People were on here for weeks telling me Walker was an upgrade. Now Butler is going to be an upgrade... Its in the water.
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