Buftex Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 You know as part of your Catholic faith, you are supposed to bring your religion to the people and teach them and make them find Jesus. That is one of our tenets. 100742[/snapback] I was raised a Cathlic too. But I was also taught, somewhere, that there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state. You realize, that America is the only country in the west where a candidate could use religion as a part of their platform, (depsite the fact that our constitution is supposed to protect us from that)? In the middle east, religion and rule mix, and we refer to it as fundamentalist fanatacism. Here we call it a mandate from the people...
KOKBILLS Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 When does the "jesus saves" conservative right start up with the witchcraft trials??? 100732[/snapback] As soon as we rest up from the voter suppression and intimidation. It's tough work, and we're all a bit tired right now...But rest assured we will have cameras in every American Home soon! Still a few glitches in the Satellite technology...But we're close...VERY close...
KOKBILLS Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 Yeah, that explains the leadership covering up years of child molestation. Catholics are great roll models. 100757[/snapback] No doubt The Catholic Church's Leadership through the cover-ups screwed up REAL bad... But come on Bro...I was raised Catholic by the 2 greatest Role models I could ever possibly ask for in My Parents... There's good and bad everywhere, and in every Religion. As a Sicilian Catholic believe me I've witnessed the hypocrisy in some Family members 1st hand...And the good Catholics certainly don't approve of the bad ones...Plus, the good ones do a tremendous amount of good in the World. That may just be my opinion, but I've seen it 1st hand my entire life. And I'm glad I was raised Catholic... But maybe that's just me... B)
Alaska Darin Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 No doubt The Catholic Church's Leadership through the cover-ups screwed up REAL bad... But come on Bro...I was raised Catholic by the 2 greatest Role models I could ever possibly ask for in My Parents... There's good and bad everywhere, and in every Religion. As a Sicilian Catholic believe me I've witnessed the hypocrisy in some Family members 1st hand...And the good Catholics certainly don't approve of the bad ones...Plus, the good ones do a tremendous amount of good in the World. That may just be my opinion, but I've seen it 1st hand my entire life. And I'm glad I was raised Catholic... But maybe that's just me... B) 100820[/snapback] Everybody has different experiences. I fully understand spirituality, I just have a difficult time with organized religion. I've seen too many things to give the benefit of the doubt any longer. I too am glad I was raised Catholic and then basically excommunicated from the Church because my parents got divorced (which was apparently a sin that could be blamed on an adolecent). It showed me first hand what "practicing what your preach" meant. No religion is better than another, simply different. At the core, you have good decent people. The further removed from the base you get the more likely corruption will occur. Not unlike government.
jarthur31 Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 Sorry Darin..do some research..the Catholic priest got caught...don't think it does not happen in the Evangelical church..."Healed......" 100762[/snapback] LOL, sorry man, but you need to wake up! The coverup goes all the way to the top! If this really bothered the Pope, he would've done something about it long ago!!
KOKBILLS Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 I too am glad I was raised Catholic and then basically excommunicated from the Church because my parents got divorced (which was apparently a sin that could be blamed on an adolecent). It showed me first hand what "practicing what your preach" meant. 100837[/snapback] Now that is flat out bad...I know some Catholic Churches over react to the divorce issue, but to punish a Child directly or indirectly is just flat out wrong. I guess I'm just lucky. My P's have been together for 40 years now, and I never had to deal with the Church complications that come with Parental Divorce...Though I was Divorced myself and had to go through the whole annulment deal which was a bit taxing admittedly...Taught me a valuable lesson though...Never get married...
Dan Gross Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 What? Last time it was 47-47.5 with Bush winning the electoral vote. Anytime a candidate gets a clear majority (50%) or better it is considered a mandate. Think about how many times that has really occurred over the last 40 years. 100710[/snapback] Actually it has happened with every re-election besides Clinton's (when Perot won 8.4% of the vote). This has actually been the closest re-election victory in the last 40 years. Again, outside of the Clinton re-election, all others have been at least a 16% difference in popular vote, with at least 85% of the electorals...
Mickey Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 What? Last time it was 47-47.5 with Bush winning the electoral vote. Anytime a candidate gets a clear majority (50%) or better it is considered a mandate. Think about how many times that has really occurred over the last 40 years. 100710[/snapback] There is no technical definition of "mandate" in a political sense. No politician who was elected ever acknowledged that the margin was so small that his victory was in spite of his policies. There is general agreement that the country is sharply and fairly evenly divided. One can't take the position that the nation is divided and that the people meant to give the President a blanket endorsement for his every policy initiative at the same time. If he received a broad endorsement ie, a "mandate", from the people, we would not be talking about how divided we are and that is just about what everyone is talking about. If the winner took 60% of the vote, we would be talking about how unified the electorate was behind the winner and the broad mandate he had won. If you have to argue that you have won a mandate, you haven't. By their nature, they are obvious.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 There is no technical definition of "mandate" in a political sense. No politician who was elected ever acknowledged that the margin was so small that his victory was in spite of his policies. There is general agreement that the country is sharply and fairly evenly divided. One can't take the position that the nation is divided and that the people meant to give the President a blanket endorsement for his every policy initiative at the same time. If he received a broad endorsement ie, a "mandate", from the people, we would not be talking about how divided we are and that is just about what everyone is talking about. If the winner took 60% of the vote, we would be talking about how unified the electorate was behind the winner and the broad mandate he had won. If you have to argue that you have won a mandate, you haven't. By their nature, they are obvious. 101960[/snapback] I'd say 55 seat majority in the Senate is indicative of a mandate.
SilverNRed Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 Everybody has different experiences. I fully understand spirituality, I just have a difficult time with organized religion. I've seen too many things to give the benefit of the doubt any longer. I too am glad I was raised Catholic and then basically excommunicated from the Church because my parents got divorced (which was apparently a sin that could be blamed on an adolecent). It showed me first hand what "practicing what your preach" meant. 100837[/snapback] Same thing happened to my dad when his parents got divorced back in the 50's (back before it was the cool thing for people to do). He wasn't excommunicated but the nuns at his school looked down on him. Still trying to wrap my head around that. I've never experienced that side of the Church so I can't comment too much.
alg Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Well, I do believe that Catholics are Christians..i may be wrong..i was brought up to believe that religion is something you keep to yourself...not scream it the streets "i'm saved, Jesus loves me..you are going to hell". Sorry its a northern Irish Catholic thing you would not have a clue. Take Jesus out of Washington DC!!!!!!! 100743[/snapback] Jesus is not in Washington trying to torture you or anyone else. Nor is the religious right trying to attack or eliminate everyone elses religious convictions. They're just sick of everyone p&ssing on theirs. I too resented Christianity when I was younger. Then I discovered, with much effort, that true religion - a personal relationship with God - has absolutely nothing to do with the things that many seem to hate. It has everything to do, however, with making the people of this country better, and, eventually, fostering a better world to come.
alg Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 As soon as we rest up from the voter suppression and intimidation. It's tough work, and we're all a bit tired right now...But rest assured we will have cameras in every American Home soon! Still a few glitches in the Satellite technology...But we're close...VERY close... 100818[/snapback]
Rich in Ohio Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 The ironic thing is that the people who suffer are often the same people who give the "mandate". Most of the people I know aren't happy but are well-educated and have good, high-paying jobs as knowledge workers. Their philosophy is "well it doesn't really affect me personally" and for a large part that's true. So they can shrug their shoulders and sigh, then go on to thinking of something else. Hard times affect those on the bottom harder. And more and more of the middle class are ending up on the bottom. Good times reach them last. I learned that when I wasn't working. We actually paid more in taxes as a percentage income than we do now. Whatever - we'll just have to see what happens. 100734[/snapback] Spoken like a true liberal.
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Jesus is not in Washington trying to torture you or anyone else. Nor is the religious right trying to attack or eliminate everyone elses religious convictions. They're just sick of everyone p&ssing on theirs. I too resented Christianity when I was younger. Then I discovered, with much effort, that true religion - a personal relationship with God - has absolutely nothing to do with the things that many seem to hate. It has everything to do, however, with making the people of this country better, and, eventually, fostering a better world to come. 102867[/snapback] I truly wonder what Jesus would think of the leaders who use his name. Here was a man who lived among outcasts, helped those whom society shunned the most, and died for them. He loved our Earth. I truly wonder why issues that drive us apart such as gay marriage have come to dominate the idelogies of those who call themselves religious, when Jesus might put his arm around these outcasts of today's society as He did in His own times. I truly wonder why anyone with a true, deep, personal connection to God would not want to protect at all costs the natural wonders of the Earth that He has given us. I truly wonder why anyone with a real sense of faith in God's power would not use the power He has given us to make life better for the poor, the suffering, the marginalized. That's what Christianity is about. That's what my parents raised me with. I have long since strayed from the church because organized religion is a lost institution that doesn't speak for me and obscures the whole. But I hold these things deep in my heart.
eventualchamps Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 I'm Catholic..its in our bible...i'm waiting for my personal relationship with Jesus. Too much religion in government 100738[/snapback] Some examples of too much religion in gov't....or are you just spewing sound bites?? Yeah that whole "One nation under God" thing that our fore fathers founded our country on really peaves me - what a bunch of idiots. Don't get me wrong, I haven't attended church on a regular basis in years but for the most part, religion has many more positive than negative influences on society. It's only when individuals take religions to radical extreme's where it can become harmful. Other than that I really don't have a problem with - do good unto others, respect your parents, do not kill, etc. I'm not sure where these values stand in your book, but in mine (and the majority of America) they are good things. If you want a sanatized country, I suggest you move to France.
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Yeah that whole "One nation under God" thing that our fore fathers founded our country on really peaves me - what a bunch of idiots. 103166[/snapback] Actually, "One nation, under God" has its origins in McCarthyism in the 1950's, as red-baiters felt that adding it would further protect our country from the Communist scourge. Look it up. The pledge was not an invention of our forefathers and it did not originally include "under God." I am not saying I am against it, and I am not saying it is a bad thing to consider one's nation to be "under God." That is for each and every American to determine on his/her own. I am just saying you should get your facts straight. Also, Thomas Jefferson held and wrote about beliefs that would today be characterized as Unitarian. Most people don't know that.
SD Jarhead Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Everybody has different experiences. I fully understand spirituality, I just have a difficult time with organized religion. I've seen too many things to give the benefit of the doubt any longer. I too am glad I was raised Catholic and then basically excommunicated from the Church because my parents got divorced (which was apparently a sin that could be blamed on an adolecent). It showed me first hand what "practicing what your preach" meant. No religion is better than another, simply different. At the core, you have good decent people. The further removed from the base you get the more likely corruption will occur. Not unlike government. 100837[/snapback] I agree with your assessment of organized religion. Just as we must be very watchful of our government, believers must be watchful of their religious leaders. After all, they are only human, like us. My rebelious spirit causes me to constantly question my faith and those in leadership positions in my church. To give you some background, I was raised catholic, but with elbowing from my wife have become a believer and attend a Baptist church consisting of approximately 50 members. If I can ever become 1/2 the person many of the members of my church are I'll be satisfied. Just two weeks ago we had a woman of meager income purchase and give a two year old car to another woman who attends our church. The woman who was the recipient of the car is a widow with a 10 year old son and back problems so severe she can't work. We have elderly members of our church who are shut-in's and one genmtleman is in need of dialysis three times a week. Well Debbie (the recipient of the car) uses her gift to shuttle the above mentioned gentleman to his dialysis. I could go on and on. The heart of some of these people amaze me. I am a follower of Christ. I am FAR from being where I want to be, but fully recognize the value of a community of organized believers. That is why I don't understand when posters demonize Believers as some sort of wackos. There are some who don't walk the walk, but my experience has been much different.
SD Jarhead Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 I truly wonder what Jesus would think of the leaders who use his name. Here was a man who lived among outcasts, helped those whom society shunned the most, and died for them. He loved our Earth. I truly wonder why issues that drive us apart such as gay marriage have come to dominate the idelogies of those who call themselves religious, when Jesus might put his arm around these outcasts of today's society as He did in His own times. I truly wonder why anyone with a true, deep, personal connection to God would not want to protect at all costs the natural wonders of the Earth that He has given us. I truly wonder why anyone with a real sense of faith in God's power would not use the power He has given us to make life better for the poor, the suffering, the marginalized. That's what Christianity is about. That's what my parents raised me with. I have long since strayed from the church because organized religion is a lost institution that doesn't speak for me and obscures the whole. But I hold these things deep in my heart. 103076[/snapback] Jesus said to love the sinner, not the sin. Why wouldn't Jesus want the leaders of the world following Gods principles? I see no harm in that at all.
Dan Gross Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Jesus said to love the sinner, not the sin. Why wouldn't Jesus want the leaders of the world following Gods principles? I see no harm in that at all. 103250[/snapback] Yet he also said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. " By the Christian doctrine, we Sin because God gave us free will. Jesus did not want to take that away. He would want all to follow the principles, but would not advocate condemning someone for not following. He sought not to punish sinners but restoring by reaching out to them. What of Matthew? He was a tax collector, whose profession was one of the most hated and corrupt at the time. Did Jesus condemn him? No, he dined with him, and asked Matthew to follow him.
VabeachBledsoefan Posted November 5, 2004 Posted November 5, 2004 Yet he also said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. " By the Christian doctrine, we Sin because God gave us free will. Jesus did not want to take that away. He would want all to follow the principles, but would not advocate condemning someone for not following. He sought not to punish sinners but restoring by reaching out to them. What of Matthew? He was a tax collector, whose profession was one of the most hated and corrupt at the time. Did Jesus condemn him? No, he dined with him, and asked Matthew to follow him. 103466[/snapback] Hey all I can say is WWJDD!!!!!!!!! WHAT WOULD JOHNNY DAMON DO???????? Paise Johnny!!!!!!...all championships are possible through him.
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