dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Larry Felser, who is an old friend of Ralph Wilson, wrote a column a few years ago about Texas Longhorns not performing well in the NFL on average compared to other bigtime schools. I think it was written in light of the Mike Williams fiasco. Anyway, he used examples going back to the 1960s and 1970s in his story, arguing that Longhorns were pampered and coddled in Austin and just weren't hungry enough for the NFL. He mentioned one of the biggest busts of the past 30 years as well -- Kenneth Sims (DT), the #1 overall pick by the Pats in 1982 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Sims ) . Of course he exaggerated for effect; Earl Campbell was a Longhorn, after all. At any rate, after the Williams and Dockery episodes, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Ralph C. Wilson signs off on paying a boatload of upfront cash to another Texas Longhorn. The cutting of Dockery - a player who at least stayed healthy and played every game - was too swift and brutal for me to think that Wilson wasn't involved in that decision. I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that Orakpo won't be selected even if he's there for the taking. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not even on the Bills board -- particularly since the biggest critique of his game is that he's not always hungry.
Chilly Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I wouldn't be surprised if he's not even on the Bills board -- particularly since the biggest critique of his game is that he's not always hungry. Biggest critique from whom, exactly?
WVUFootball29 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I've never understood this concept. Not drafting a player because of the school he went to rather than what we can produce on the field
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 I've never understood this concept. Not drafting a player because of the school he went to rather than what we can produce on the field You're talking about a 90 year old with a long (albeit possibly failing) memory. Don't think that doesn't factor in.
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Yeah, there's some real bums out of there...like Casey Hampton, Phil Dawson, Justin Blalock and Aaron Ross
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 Biggest critique from whom, exactly? Gil Brandt, among others: http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/25/lb-orakpo-...-texas-pro-day/ "I think the consenses on Orakpo is very positive. The one question mark on him is that he’s one of those guys that appears to play hard 90 percent of the time, but takes a vacation the other 10 percent. But when you’re a pass-rusher in 110-degree temperatures it’s hard to go full speeed all the time. The weather here in the south is detrimental because these players get tired from constantly rushing the passer in the heat and humidity."
Magox Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I generally don't subsrcibe to theories of not drafting players because of the programs that they come from. However, I am starting to not like Orapko more and more as we get closer to the draft. To tell you the truth, I'd rather not draft any of the DE's with the #11 pick. In my view, we should draft the most sure fire player that we can. Pettigrew Pettigrew Pettigrew
Leonidas Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Not sure why we needed a third Orakpo thread, but I digress... Is there anybody who doesn't think he's the best 4-3 pass rusher in the draft? Look at the numbers. Brian Orakpo #98 DE CAREER STATS TACKLES FUMBLES FORCED INTERCEPTIONS 101 1 0 Birth Date July 31, 1986 Hometown HOUSTON, TX Height 6-4 Weight 260 lbs. Stats Overview YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK 2005 17 9 8 1 2006 17 12 5 4 2007 27 19 8 5 2008 40 31 9 11 Everette Brown #99 DE CAREER STATS TACKLES FUMBLES FORCED INTERCEPTIONS 100 3 0 Birth Date August 7, 1987 Hometown STANTONSBURG, NC Height 6-4 Weight 248 lbs. Age 21 Class Junior ProfileStatsGame Log Stats Overview YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK 2006 27 16 11 3 2007 36 23 13 6 2008 37 31 6 13 Robert Ayers #91 DE CAREER STATS TACKLES FUMBLES FORCED INTERCEPTIONS 112 0 1 Birth Date September 6, 1985 Hometown CLIO, SC Height 6-3 Weight 270 lbs. Age 23 Class Senior ProfileStatsGame Log Stats Overview YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK 2005 5 2 3 1 2006 25 15 10 1 2007 33 23 10 4 2008 49 33 16 3 I leave Maybin out because he played at a the Roy Williams weight of 234 lbs...at DE.
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 Yeah, there's some real bums out of there...like Casey Hampton, Phil Dawson, Justin Blalock and Aaron Ross You appear to be confusing what I think (which I didn't reveal) with what I think Wilson thinks.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Yeah, there's some real bums out of there...like Casey Hampton, Phil Dawson, Justin Blalock and Aaron Ross That's rough if those are your best examples. Hampton is fat and lazy--but as a DT in a 3-4 it just so happens to inures to his benefit.
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 Not sure why we needed a third Orakpo thread, but I digress... Is there anybody who doesn't think he's the best 4-3 pass rusher in the draft? Look at the numbers. Brian Orakpo #98 DE CAREER STATS TACKLES FUMBLES FORCED INTERCEPTIONS 101 1 0 Birth Date July 31, 1986 Hometown HOUSTON, TX Height 6-4 Weight 260 lbs. Stats Overview YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK 2005 17 9 8 1 2006 17 12 5 4 2007 27 19 8 5 2008 40 31 9 11 Everette Brown #99 DE CAREER STATS TACKLES FUMBLES FORCED INTERCEPTIONS 100 3 0 Birth Date August 7, 1987 Hometown STANTONSBURG, NC Height 6-4 Weight 248 lbs. Age 21 Class Junior ProfileStatsGame Log Stats Overview YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK 2006 27 16 11 3 2007 36 23 13 6 2008 37 31 6 13 Robert Ayers #91 DE CAREER STATS TACKLES FUMBLES FORCED INTERCEPTIONS 112 0 1 Birth Date September 6, 1985 Hometown CLIO, SC Height 6-3 Weight 270 lbs. Age 23 Class Senior ProfileStatsGame Log Stats Overview YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK 2005 5 2 3 1 2006 25 15 10 1 2007 33 23 10 4 2008 49 33 16 3 I leave Maybin out because he played at a the Roy Williams weight of 234 lbs...at DE. I doubt college production numbers are going to outweigh an opinion developed over 50 years of NFL experience. Just sayin'. Wilson has final approval over the pick.
Leonidas Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I doubt college production numbers are going to outweigh an opinion developed over 50 years of NFL experience. Just sayin'. Wilson has final approval over the pick. Well I know Ralph signs the paychecks, but he should defer to the scouts on this one. Of course whether he will or not is an entirely different issue altogether...
thewildrabbit Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I'll be shocked if he falls to the Bills at 11 and even more shocked if they were to take Maybin over him. The "rak"is the best DE in this years draft IMO, and Robert Ayers is next. If the Bills take either of those two I'd know they did well. What scares me is Maybin fits into that Tampa 2 scheme better then the other two and he is more of a boom or bust type player.
WVUFootball29 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Well I know Ralph signs the paychecks, but he should defer to the scouts on this one. Of course whether he will or not is an entirely different issue altogether... Just keep his damn daughter out of the warroom
Tipster19 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Larry Felser, who is an old friend of Ralph Wilson, wrote a column a few years ago about Texas Longhorns not performing well in the NFL on average compared to other bigtime schools. I think it was written in light of the Mike Williams fiasco. Anyway, he used examples going back to the 1960s and 1970s in his story, arguing that Longhorns were pampered and coddled in Austin and just weren't hungry enough for the NFL. He mentioned one of the biggest busts of the past 30 years as well -- Kenneth Sims (DT), the #1 overall pick by the Pats in 1982 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Sims ) . Of course he exaggerated for effect; Earl Campbell was a Longhorn, after all. At any rate, after the Williams and Dockery episodes, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Ralph C. Wilson signs off on paying a boatload of upfront cash to another Texas Longhorn. The cutting of Dockery - a player who at least stayed healthy and played every game - was too swift and brutal for me to think that Wilson wasn't involved in that decision. I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that Orakpo won't be selected even if he's there for the taking. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not even on the Bills board -- particularly since the biggest critique of his game is that he's not always hungry. FWIW I agree with this thinking. Good post.
thebandit27 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Not sure why we needed a third Orakpo thread, but I digress... Is there anybody who doesn't think he's the best 4-3 pass rusher in the draft? Look at the numbers. For the sake of argument, I think Larry English is the best 4-3 pass rusher in the draft. And--for the record (since most draftniks have him labled as a rush LB)--I do think he can play end in a 4-3 in the NFL. His numbers (according to CBS Sportsline and NIU's website): Year----Tac---Solo----Sacks-----TFL 2005-----57-----20------1----------8 2006-----51-----32-----12---------16 2007-----60-----27-----11---------17 2008*----30-----26-----8----------16 * Missed all of spring workouts and preseason due to ACL surgery and torn pectoral muscle Love the consistency and productivity even in the face of injury and massive double team efforts. Also, I like that his two biggets games as a Senior came against Tennessee and Minnesota, the two toughest teams that NIU faced all season. Love. This. Guy.
Rico Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Larry Felser, who is an old friend of Ralph Wilson, wrote a column a few years ago about Texas Longhorns not performing well in the NFL on average compared to other bigtime schools. I think it was written in light of the Mike Williams fiasco. Anyway, he used examples going back to the 1960s and 1970s in his story, arguing that Longhorns were pampered and coddled in Austin and just weren't hungry enough for the NFL. He mentioned one of the biggest busts of the past 30 years as well -- Kenneth Sims (DT), the #1 overall pick by the Pats in 1982 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Sims ) . Of course he exaggerated for effect; Earl Campbell was a Longhorn, after all. At any rate, after the Williams and Dockery episodes, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Ralph C. Wilson signs off on paying a boatload of upfront cash to another Texas Longhorn. The cutting of Dockery - a player who at least stayed healthy and played every game - was too swift and brutal for me to think that Wilson wasn't involved in that decision. I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that Orakpo won't be selected even if he's there for the taking. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not even on the Bills board -- particularly since the biggest critique of his game is that he's not always hungry.And you sure as all hell don't take Maybin at 11 either, for many of the same reasons.
Brandon Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I really don't care about the school's history, unless they have a long history of producing flops at a specific position. I'd be a little apprehensive about selecting a Florida State DE or a Tennessee WR at 11, for example. Otherwise, from an overall standpoint, every school is going to produce a few high round NFL busts. As for Orakpo, he's like any other prospect. The Bills front office just needs to listen to what the scouts say about him and go from there.
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 And you sure as all hell don't take Maybin at 11 either, for many of the same reasons. You're talking about a 90 year old here. Excepting Booker Moore, he's had some success with Penn State guys (Conlan and Poz, who I think is shaping up into a good player). Interesting factoid: the Bills haven't drafted a USC Trojan since 1989, and they haven't drafted one above the sixth round since 1973. http://www.databasefootball.com/draft/draf...=BUF&lg=NFL Check out what this report says about Mack Brown at Texas: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-f...o&type=lgns
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Gil Brandt, among others: http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/25/lb-orakpo-...-texas-pro-day/ "I think the consenses on Orakpo is very positive. The one question mark on him is that he’s one of those guys that appears to play hard 90 percent of the time, but takes a vacation the other 10 percent. But when you’re a pass-rusher in 110-degree temperatures it’s hard to go full speeed all the time. The weather here in the south is detrimental because these players get tired from constantly rushing the passer in the heat and humidity." That is such a weak argument against him. Look at any scouting report on Mario Williams coming out, and you'll find the same thing. I'm not saying that Orakpo is the next Williams, but I'm saying that a lot of times you will see that as a generic weakness with these complete DEs.
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