Ramius Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah, I can't agree with "worst of all time" type comments. But the team's course over the last 10 years has been even more frustrating, in a way. They do just enough to give you hope that things could improve before settling back in their comfortable rut. So you're saying that we suck at sucking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 So you're saying that we suck at sucking? Yeah, leave it to the Bills to even screw that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 So you're saying that we suck at sucking? “Rabbits? Is there any rabbits here? George says I can tend the rabbits!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 What do YOU think TO means for the offense? Not to hijack the thread, but I did want to answer your question. I think the T.O. move was a bold step and I see it mostly as a positive football-wise. T.O. is a great athlete and a great WR and I think he still has some left in the tank, although he is on the downhill side of his career. He can run the entire route tree but may have lost something of his vertical threat. (Not that the Bills would use it anyway, mind you.) I am not a card-carrying Lee Evans cheerleader, so I think T.O., even a declining T.O. will be the Bills primary weapon even at this late stage in his career. The Bills have needed more talent in their aerial game for quite some time, so this is a move in the right direction because it addresses a fundamental weakness on the team. Unfortunately, it looks like this T.O. experiment may be bad timing. T.O. signed a 1 year deal and regardless of what happens, I think the chances that he won't go to the highest bidder next year are vanishingly small. In other words, he is not a long term solution and the Bills have to basically be planning now to replace him. Which is odd, because he just got here. But beyond that, the offense has other issues that have come up such as losing Royal, Peters, Dockery, and "IQ" on the front wall and losing Lynch for the first 3 games. So, T.O. is not walking into an offense that was starting to gel and is only a player away, but rather an offense being blown up. Over half of the starters opening day will be new. I'm not big on Rhodes; he's strictly a backup. Jackson is having a contract squabble. Finally, I'm still "jury out" on Trent. I blame him at least as much as the "bad WRs" for our lack of a passing attack the last year plus. Indeed, he seems almost the polar opposite of Tony Romo for long stretches, where he is unwilling to throw the ball out there and let his guy make a play. We'll see what the Bills do this weekend, of course. But, the condition of the front wall on offense at the moment is downright frightening. Trent might best be talking to Llyod's of London... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Not to hijack the thread, but I did want to answer your question. I think the T.O. move was a bold step and I see it mostly as a positive football-wise. T.O. is a great athlete and a great WR and I think he still has some left in the tank, although he is on the downhill side of his career. He can run the entire route tree but may have lost something of his vertical threat. (Not that the Bills would use it anyway, mind you.) I am not a card-carrying Lee Evans cheerleader, so I think T.O., even a declining T.O. will be the Bills primary weapon even at this late stage in his career. The Bills have needed more talent in their aerial game for quite some time, so this is a move in the right direction because it addresses a fundamental weakness on the team. Unfortunately, it looks like this T.O. experiment may be bad timing. T.O. signed a 1 year deal and regardless of what happens, I think the chances that he won't go to the highest bidder next year are vanishingly small. In other words, he is not a long term solution and the Bills have to basically be planning now to replace him. Which is odd, because he just got here. But beyond that, the offense has other issues that have come up such as losing Royal, Peters, Dockery, and "IQ" on the front wall and losing Lynch for the first 3 games. So, T.O. is not walking into an offense that was starting to gel and is only a player away, but rather an offense being blown up. Over half of the starters opening day will be new. I'm not big on Rhodes; he's strictly a backup. Jackson is having a contract squabble. Finally, I'm still "jury out" on Trent. I blame him at least as much as the "bad WRs" for our lack of a passing attack the last year plus. Indeed, he seems almost the polar opposite of Tony Romo for long stretches, where he is unwilling to throw the ball out there and let his guy make a play. We'll see what the Bills do this weekend, of course. But, the condition of the front wall on offense at the moment is downright frightening. Trent might best be talking to Llyod's of London... Good post, but I will add that while he may be the polar opposite of Romo, TO has a proven method -- obnoxious, to be sure -- of getting QBs to look his way downfield. I don't think Edwards' arm is that bad at all (is it any worse than Romo's or Jeff Garcia's?), so if push comes to shove -- and TO will push and shove -- he can get it down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Not to hijack the thread, but I did want to answer your question. I think the T.O. move was a bold step and I see it mostly as a positive football-wise. T.O. is a great athlete and a great WR and I think he still has some left in the tank, although he is on the downhill side of his career. He can run the entire route tree but may have lost something of his vertical threat. (Not that the Bills would use it anyway, mind you.) I am not a card-carrying Lee Evans cheerleader, so I think T.O., even a declining T.O. will be the Bills primary weapon even at this late stage in his career. The Bills have needed more talent in their aerial game for quite some time, so this is a move in the right direction because it addresses a fundamental weakness on the team. Unfortunately, it looks like this T.O. experiment may be bad timing. T.O. signed a 1 year deal and regardless of what happens, I think the chances that he won't go to the highest bidder next year are vanishingly small. In other words, he is not a long term solution and the Bills have to basically be planning now to replace him. Which is odd, because he just got here. But beyond that, the offense has other issues that have come up such as losing Royal, Peters, Dockery, and "IQ" on the front wall and losing Lynch for the first 3 games. So, T.O. is not walking into an offense that was starting to gel and is only a player away, but rather an offense being blown up. Over half of the starters opening day will be new. I'm not big on Rhodes; he's strictly a backup. Jackson is having a contract squabble. Finally, I'm still "jury out" on Trent. I blame him at least as much as the "bad WRs" for our lack of a passing attack the last year plus. Indeed, he seems almost the polar opposite of Tony Romo for long stretches, where he is unwilling to throw the ball out there and let his guy make a play. We'll see what the Bills do this weekend, of course. But, the condition of the front wall on offense at the moment is downright frightening. Trent might best be talking to Llyod's of London... I wouldn't necessarily call it a "front wall." I think a more appropriate nickname for our o-line would be the Maginot O-Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Tremendous post, Badol, thanks much... the most outstanding poster on this board, bar none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 One other thing on this franchise bottoming out. Buffalo has refused to make changes to their front office, regardless of their record in UFA, on draft day, and on the field. Management always has another reason not to do something, and we're supposed to accept it. Whether it's naming the stadium, finding a new HC, hiring a real GM, or just firing John Guy, they don't seem to think it's important to improve areas which do not produce. And that doesn't include the players, many of whom are not NFL caliber or start and wouldn't for most other teams. This team refuses to chart a new course, especially considering how much the old one (Levy/Brandon) has failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 because everyone knows I stopped reading at this point. Definitive statements about anything are usually wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williams+Williams+Williams Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Again, the homeless guy who coached NE was 41-55 (43% winning %) before Brady. Dick Jauron's winning 43%. Additionally, Jeff Fisher has had 8 non-winning seasons out of 15. And Fisher, IMO, is the best head coach in football. But we obviously know Jauron is the worst coach ever and would suck even if he had Tom Brady or Steve McNair. And the brilliant minds of Belichick & Fisher would have had the same exact success with the likes of Jim Miller, Cade McNown, and JP Losman. The biggest problem is the player personell decisions that have been made for the last 10 years in Buffalo. We need a winner behind center, and a defense that can deliver. Jauron's lack of emotion doesn't bother me nearly as much as Turk Schonerts predictable play calling and Perry Fewells conservative defense. Winning franchises expect to win and have great owners and leadership. I feel like the attitude in Buffalo every year is "this is a building year". I hope the players develop the right chemistry and attitude in the locker room. If that happens, we have a chance to overcome the poor leadership in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I stopped reading at this point. Definitive statements about anything are usually wrong.... You are retarded. That's a definitive statement, and it's correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 You are retarded. That's a definitive statement, and it's correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 An epic post from my favorite glass-is-half-empty poster (seriously). Re TO, he played quite well last year, and if not for the Brad Johnson interregnum, he probably would have ended up with his usual 75-80 catches/1200 yards. As it is, he still put up excellent numbers -- 70 catches/1052 yards and 10 TDs in one of the best divisions in football. And he had one of the best seasons of his career the year before. As for the drops, you're better than that, Badol. He's been droppin' balls since 1996, and in any event, Braylon Edwards led the league in drops last year. (Edwards is an elite receiver, of course.) Reading your post, one would think the Bills weren't at 7-9 three years running. You're basically equating them with an 0-16 team, and you're relying on truly specious claims like "the hands go first" (I always thought it was the legs, but what do I know?) because James Lofton played like crap in 1992 (which he truly did) and definitively stating that Edwards will get hurt early on based on nothing but your own gut instinct and your seeming view that he won't ever complete a season. Lofton is a bad comparison with TO -- Lofton was a deep threat guy who did NOT like going over the middle and taking a pounding; TO has always been fearless in that regard. Methinks Lofton saw the end coming and thought that perhaps it wasn't worth getting clobbered. As for Edwards, Chris Chandler made it through a bunch of seasons; I suspect Edwards will make it through a couple too. Whether that will be next year or not is anyone's guess, but to state so definitively that he will go down for the count strikes me as the talk of a person embracing negativity for its own sake instead of reasonably taking a wait-and-see approach. I'm also not sure how you see Ryan Fitzpatrick as a downgrade from Losman, who may not even make a roster this year. Also, I haven't seen a enthusiastic post about June 1 cuts in at least a year. I'm not sure where that's coming from. Lofton didn't retire after the Bills, he went on to drop a lot of balls the next year in Oakland. Guy could still get over the top of a defense though. As for the drops, the Owens leading the league in drops thing came from an article after the TO acquisition, but I believe it was actually most drops in the second half of the season. In any event, he used to drop some easy balls, now he's a drop machine. And yeah, he's old. He's from the same class as Keyshawn and Moulds. He's old. And yeah, he had production, but check out the end of Jerry Rice's career. His game dropped out overnight. Good reference to Chris Chandelier. That is the kind of player Edwards reminds me of. He's not good enough to make a difference for a bad team. He's not an elite talent. He is a guy who could one day be a good fit for a good team that is just a QB away from doing something in the playoffs. As for my assumption that he will get hurt........he has always gotten hurt so I would say I more embrace reality than negativity. Making his line worse isn't going to lead to more durability, IMO. And I never said anything about Losman. Fitzpatrick sucks though. He was awful in relief of Palmer last year, despite having Housh and Ocho Cinco, so why do you think so highly of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Overall, I see much more potential for a poor record than the Bills vying for a playoff spot. Having to pick in the top five next year will be devastating to this team with all of the guaranteed money that will be required to sign that pick. A lot of people don't realize that picking in the top 5 of the draft is not a good thing. It's as sure a way to keep your team awful as it is to make it any better at all. What is frustrating is that the Bills have actually been in a good drafting position for so many years and not managed to translate that into a better team on the field. They are poised to drop out of mediocrity and into the crapper at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 I'm not asking this because I know...I'm just asking...Are there Head Coaches with 8 or more Years of experience with worse records than Jauron? Nobody in the SB era has missed the playoffs 7 out of their first 8 seasons as a head coach. Nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Good to see you back, BADOL. I was beginning to worry that T.O. was the final straw ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 You have to admit. if not for the T.O. signing (which made everybody feel better for a while), this has been an absolute dreadful off-season. Before the T.O. signing, morale and ticket sales were in serious decline, which was kick-started by retaining Dead Dick at Head Coach. Then for a while everything "felt" better because of the T.O. signing. Unfortunately, ever since, things have went right back to miserable. Star LT is gone, Parrish, Ko, Kelsay are all on the block & nobody knows what the Hell is going on. The Bills are gonna have to have one Hell of a draft OR make a huge blockbuster trade to get everybody feeling better again. Maybe that will happen or maybe not. Look at it this way, we've been 7-9 for three straight seasons....so I'd actually rather the Bills have one extreme or the other....preferably win and make the playoffs BUT if not, then they need to crash and effing burn (which looks like could happen)...so we can CLEAN HOUSE from the GM down....of course that's assuming Ralphie would actually care enough to do it....just my two cents. Funny, the Terrell Owens signing is what pushed me over the edge. It wreaks of desperation, and insincerity. It is the second major step, IMO, of the begining of the end for this franchise as a WNY team. Ralphs' Trojan horse... I have no doubt that Owens will add some spice to the Bills offense, but as great as he might be, there are way too many other problems with this franchise, on and off the field. Personally, as much as I thought it was a good move at the time, the firing of Donohoe was the final phase of this teams slide... since that time, this team has had no focus, other than, the making and saving of money. I don't know if it makes me a bad fan, but I think it is just as bad to blindly accept the bull sh-- that Mr Wilson is feeding us every year. If the definition of insanity is to keep doing something that you know won't work, we are all insane... I just think the fans of WNY deserve far better than they are getting. It is funny that Donohoe was hired, but all of the other guys running the team (the triumverant!!!) were here during the TD era. They set out to correct Donohoes mistakes, and now, three years later, are spinning their wheels, trying to clean up their own mess. Personally, I think Donohoe would have had more success by now... As for the hope that Ralph will "clean house", don't hold your breath. The ship is going down with this managment team, I don't believe for a second that Mr Wilson doesn't have a plan for what will happen with this team, once he is gone. The old man is just lubing us up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 You are retarded. That's a definitive statement, and it's correct! Sarcasm is lost on the non-French, apparently. Maybe you'd like to watch some old Jerry Lewis movies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Fair enough and I respect your opinion. But this negative energy has just been killing the Bills fan in me. I for one have no idea what you are talking about. Negative energy? What the hell is your life like if you are so wired into this hobby that you can't even be honest with yourself about the state of the football team you follow. What's it going to take? 20 years and no playoffs? Seriously, it's one thing to be a fan, it's another thing to pointlessly defend ineptitude so vehemently. You are so concerned about the productivity of my posts, but wtf good does hating on me every time I post something do? Get a life for chrissake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 1. I don't know either. 2. It's obvious 7-9 seems to be OK with Bills management. 3. I don't see them going 8-8, given Jauron, a make-shift O-line, a fragile QB and Lynch missing first 3 games and a much more difficult 2009 schedule. They made need to go 5-10 to dump Jauron, but you just don't know with his new 3 year extension. Dick is here for the duration. next year's excuse is that they didn't have enough talent - especially on the OL but they conveniently will leave out the part that the front office gutted the OL and are directly responsible for the decrease in talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts