Bills are bottoming out

[LabattBlue]

Same here. And hope always springs eternal before the draft.

 

In 06, we had 4 picks entering day 1. There were huge needs on both lines, and a young quarterback who needed all the help he could get. We walked away with Whitner, McCargo and Youboty. Of course, we followed up this masterpiece by grabbing Ko Simpson with the 8th pick of Round 4. What saddens me is that we are in roughly the same position as we speak.

We simply cannot afford another catostrophic draft like this. The thing is, many of the same people are running the show. But, you are ultimately correct. All we can do is hope for the best.

I agree that the Bills needs to work some magic at the draft table this weekend. Out of 6 picks in the first 4 rounds, they need 1 guy to end up being a pro bowler and 3 others end up as above average starters. Anything less and the decade of mediocrity will continue for the immediate future.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I find it morbidly fascinating that a "glass half empty" post like Badol's can enumerate numerous evidence and football-related arguments as to why the team is headed in the wrong direction, while many of the counter posts contain very little football-related argumentation or are completely devoid of such arguments and amount to "shoot the messenger".

 

Some of the arguments for "glass half full" are: We are not the Lions, we went 7-9. Edwards is the best QB that Jauron has ever had. T.O. is a Hall-of-Famer and he'll carry the team single-handedly from the WR position.

 

Surely, there is more to be positive about. One of the "half full" fans can surely put together a more coherent argument than the one that amounted to "coaching [line play] is overrated unless it is a team other than the Bills".

[San-O]

I don't know how anyone can say that the Bills' lack of performance isn't a direct reflection on Juron's inability to motivate...

 

That said,

 

what would we need to finish this year for Juron to keep his job? 9-7?, 8-8?, has 7-9 become acceptable?

 

Personally, I think a 9-7 finish w/ the schedule we have would be enough but do you really think they'll fire him if The Bills finish .500 or worse?

 

I doubt it... its easier to claim that we're "staying the course" than it is to can him.

 

1. I don't know either.

 

2. It's obvious 7-9 seems to be OK with Bills management.

 

3. I don't see them going 8-8, given Jauron, a make-shift O-line, a fragile QB and Lynch missing first 3 games

and a much more difficult 2009 schedule.

 

They made need to go 5-10 to dump Jauron, but you just don't know with his new 3 year extension.

 

[DE Bills Fan]

ho w anyone can look at the events of this past off-season and expect any more than 5 wins is beyond me. and it all starts at the top:

 

RALPH WILSON FOR THE HALL OF FAME!!

What a crock of sh^%!!!!

[dave mcbride]

I find it morbidly fascinating that a "glass half empty" post like Badol's can enumerate numerous evidence and football-related arguments as to why the team is headed in the wrong direction, while many of the counter posts contain very little football-related argumentation or are completely devoid of such arguments and amount to "shoot the messenger".

 

Some of the arguments for "glass half full" are: We are not the Lions, we went 7-9. Edwards is the best QB that Jauron has ever had. T.O. is a Hall-of-Famer and he'll carry the team single-handedly from the WR position.

 

Surely, there is more to be positive about. One of the "half full" fans can surely put together a more coherent argument than the one that amounted to "coaching [line play] is overrated unless it is a team other than the Bills".

Please don't mischaracterize what I wrote. Now that being said, no one has offered a credible response to the statistics I presented about TO and the offenses he plays on. The usual response is that "he's old," which isn't particularly credible judging from his production the last two years. Now "the hands go first" argument: that one I hadn't heard before. I'll at least credit it for being novel.

[BillsVet]

2008 Falcons: new GM, new HC, new QB > throwing out what did not work, and trying something new = hope

2009 Bills: sticking with a proven failure of a HC > trying the same thing, and hoping for a different result = ?

 

Thanks for the post BADOL. Missed your thoughts this off-season. Fans who can't see holes in the ship are sleeping.

 

That said, a lot of Bills fans fail to follow what year in and year out successful teams are doing. They've got the Bills blinders on and fail to understand what transpired for two franchises. Both the Dolphins and Falcons completely replaced their inept front offices and coaching staffs altogether. I'm sure they'd never admit that they expected success like they had, but it is what it is. Those teams were and will be successful. Buffalo doesn't need to make changes, even with a 52-66 record in 9 seasons.

 

Buffalo is stagnant in the offseason when changes are necessary.

 

Buffalo fails to hire a GM when division foes feature proven successes Parcells, Belichick.

 

Buffalo is quiet when major moves like trading a 2007 All-Pro OT who is 27 as made.

 

Buffalo pursues mediocre UFA's when people like Tim Graham say the Bills need a huge off-season. Their big acquisition was not planned before UFA happened.

 

Buffalo talks about draft picks as if they'll be instant impact starters. Most rookies, as several have pointed out, aren't going to be.

 

Buffalo depends heavily on spin to sell tickets. They can't hype last year's success because they haven't had it in 9 years.

 

And lastly, the team is selling games to a company widely believed to have interest in purchasing them in the near term.

 

The truth hurts.

[MRW]

Please don't mischaracterize what I wrote. Now that being said, no one has offered a credible response to the statistics I presented about TO and the offenses he plays on. The usual response is that "he's old," which isn't particularly credible judging from his production the last two years. Now "the hands go first" argument: that one I hadn't heard before. I'll at least credit it for being novel.

I don't think you should've been tarred with the same brush as those who simply dismissed BADOL's post without engaging it. Looking at this thread, though, you (along with maybe one or two others) seem to be the exception rather than the rule for those who disagree with his take.

 

For the record, I agree with you on TO, I don't think he's showing signs of a significant dropoff yet and I expect him to perform well this year. I don't think it will be enough to dramatically improve the team with the question marks they have everywhere else though.

[dave mcbride]

I don't think you should've been tarred with the same brush as those who simply dismissed BADOL's post without engaging it. Looking at this thread, though, you (along with maybe one or two others) seem to be the exception rather than the rule for those who disagree with his take.

 

For the record, I agree with you on TO, I don't think he's showing signs of a significant dropoff yet and I expect him to perform well this year. I don't think it will be enough to dramatically improve the team with the question marks they have everywhere else though.

Don't get me wrong -- I may disagree with some of what Badol says, but I agree with a lot of it. He's one of the best posters here, and has been for many years.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Please don't mischaracterize what I wrote. Now that being said, no one has offered a credible response to the statistics I presented about TO and the offenses he plays on. The usual response is that "he's old," which isn't particularly credible judging from his production the last two years. Now "the hands go first" argument: that one I hadn't heard before. I'll at least credit it for being novel.

Dave, sorry you took it as a slight on your post. Let me try again. You stated a real argument and buttressed it with real evidence. You deserve your kudos for that "half full" take. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. My criticism wasn't with the quality of your argument -- really, I thought that was well done. My criticism was simply that it was a singular point. T.O. was signed and he's a great player (I'll leave the debate about that aside as I was offering a meta-comment about the debate in this thread only), but as far as a general "half full" platform that is a singular point and not completely compelling on its own. Sorry, my attempt at brevity didn't come off well.

[dave mcbride]

Dave, sorry you took it as a slight on your post. Let me try again. You stated a real argument and buttressed it with real evidence. You deserve your kudos for that "half full" take. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. My criticism wasn't with the quality of your argument -- really, I thought that was well done. My criticism was simply that it was a singular point. T.O. was signed and he's a great player (I'll leave the debate about that aside as I was offering a meta-comment about the debate in this thread only), but as far as a general "half full" platform that is a singular point and not completely compelling on its own. Sorry, my attempt at brevity didn't come off well.

Not a problem! I sorry I had that snippy response. What do YOU think TO means for the offense?

[billsfreak]

Because sometimes you want to just grab a poster and shake them and say "maintain perspective!" Bottoming out is what the Detroit Lions did. 0-16 is bottoming out. 7-9 is frustrating but nowhere near bottoming out.

 

PTR

I would say going 2-8 in our last 10 games after a 5-1 start is somewhere between frustrating and bottoming out.

[billsfreak]

Only the Bills would hire a coach the Lions didn't want.

The Patriots hired a coach that the Browns didn't want. Now he has 3 Superbowl Rings. The Giants hired a guy that the Jaguars didn't want anymore, he has a ring now. Not saying Jauron will ever come close to one ring, but it isn't always the coach, quite often it is the organization too.

[Endzone Animal]

I find the absurd cheerleader posts far more annoying than the critical posts. Bitching about a perennially bad team makes a lot more sense than bitching at fans who post honest criticisms and observations.

[cåblelady]

Who is this BADOLBILZ guy, anyway?

[MRW]

Don't get me wrong -- I may disagree with some of what Badol says, but I agree with a lot of it. He's one of the best posters here, and has been for many years.

Like some of the people posting in this thread, I used to be bothered by some of his posts because he seemed so consistently negative. But as time has gone by I've come to realize that I was getting frustrated because he was right so often.

[enoff]

A great post.

It’s tough being a Bills fan. They find ever-more innovative ways to disappoint and break a fan’s heart. As a life-long Bills fan, I know a bad football team when I see it, and the current team may well be the worst team in Bills’ history, and that is saying a lot. But at least Ralph got in the Hall of Fame.

[papazoid]

Here is why the Bills are mediocre at best for a decade.

 

#1- they have wasted three #1 picks on finding Jim Kelly's replacement (Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe & J P Losman)

 

#2- they have neglected BOTH the OL & DL in the draft and free agency. They keep using their top picks on "finesse" positions like DB & WR.

 

until they win the war in the trenches, they will continue to lose.

[Gordio]

A great post.

It’s tough being a Bills fan. They find ever-more innovative ways to disappoint and break a fan’s heart. As a life-long Bills fan, I know a bad football team when I see it, and the current team may well be the worst team in Bills’ history, and that is saying a lot. But at least Ralph got in the Hall of Fame.

 

These are the types of comments that I have a real problem with. This current bills team is not even close to the worst team in bills history. My guess is they would not even make the top 10. Get a grip buddy. As Denny green once said "they are who we thought they were", in thiscase the bills who unfortunately have been a middle of the road team for the better part of 10 years.

[34-78-83]

A great post.

It's tough being a Bills fan. They find ever-more innovative ways to disappoint and break a fan's heart. As a life-long Bills fan, I know a bad football team when I see it, and the current team may well be the worst team in Bills' history, and that is saying a lot. But at least Ralph got in the Hall of Fame.

 

This current team is the 85 Bears compared to the collection of players they had in say '68, '71, '84 or 2001. Not even close the way I see it.

[MRW]

These are the types of comments that I have a real problem with. This current bills team is not even close to the worst team in bills history. My guess is they would not even make the top 10. Get a grip buddy. As Denny green once said "they are who we thought they were", in thiscase the bills who unfortunately have been a middle of the road team for the better part of 10 years.

Yeah, I can't agree with "worst of all time" type comments. But the team's course over the last 10 years has been even more frustrating, in a way. They do just enough to give you hope that things could improve before settling back in their comfortable rut.