CNSNews: CIA confirms waterboarding thwarted another 9/11

[DC Tom]

What's so hard to accept? The CIA affirms that KSM only revealed information about a plane flying into an LA building after he was waterboarded. It's not hard to read.

 

You can't prove something didn't happen because of some other previous event. It's a statement that's impossible to verify.

[The Dean]

So the report that torture prevented "another 9/11" is wrong, because torture in principle is ineffective, therefore can never work?

 

That's even more idiotic than their blind acceptance of "torture prevented another 9/11".

 

 

Agreed that both of those views/claims are quite idiotic.

[DC Tom]

Agreed that both of those views/claims are quite idiotic.

 

Frenkle's leading the idiot race by a few lengths, though, for trying to disprove an unprovable statement with a ridiculously specious misapplication of a somewhat questionable generalization to a specific event.

 

bull sh-- like that is what makes this board worthwhile...

[erynthered]

I don't think you understand. If we play nice, then they'll play nice. If we don't waterboard, they'll stop decapitating people on video or stringing bodies up from bridges. It's like nuclear weapons. Once we stop our nuclear program, countries like NK and Iran will follow suit.

 

You're really not getting this, are you...

 

 

...and there in lies the problem with the left, the BIG problem. Pointing out the facts as far as whats been reported, though they'd like to tell everybody in the world what our covert activities are, "False" and Hyperbole, code red? Its set aside as an anomaly, lucky guess. There is the scary part. Because if something happens on obamas watch they'll blame Bush for his lack of foreign policy strength and "humility". He should have apologised and bowed more. Though this report should prove that his interest was in protecting our country at all costs. This country is in for a rude awakening under obamas curtsy foreign policy.

 

I think Michelle is wearing obamas balls around her neck. Nice pacifist necklace.

[Fingon]

You can't prove something didn't happen because of some other previous event. It's a statement that's impossible to verify.

So you are denying that KSM's info did not help stop this attack? Because the CIA begs to differ. I'll take the actual agent's opinions over someone on a message board's.

[Fingon]

Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will know.’”

 

After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.

 

The May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that details what happened in this regard was written by then-Principal Deputy Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John A. Rizzo, the senior deputy general counsel for the CIA.

 

“You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM—once enhanced techniques were employed—led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles,” says the memo.

 

“You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave,’” reads the memo. “More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] … Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali’s brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KSM.”

 

yeah... him giving up the information was most likely the only thing that stopped this attack.

[erynthered]

yeah... him giving up the information was most likely the only thing that stopped this attack.

 

 

....we didnt have a body count, so all this is speculative.

 

sage/blzrule/bigidiot/ktfabd/billsfan4asec/eei/dean...

[RI Bills Fan]

A differing opinion...

 

Torture accomplished nothing...

 

 

The application of techniques such as waterboarding -- a form of simulated drowning that U.S. officials had previously deemed a crime -- prompted a sudden torrent of names and facts. Abu Zubaida began unspooling the details of various al-Qaeda plots, including plans to unleash weapons of mass destruction.

 

Abu Zubaida's revelations triggered a series of alerts and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms. The interrogations led directly to the arrest of Jose Padilla, the man Abu Zubaida identified as heading an effort to explode a radiological "dirty bomb" in an American city. Padilla was held in a naval brig for 3 1/2 years on the allegation but was never charged in any such plot. Every other lead ultimately dissolved into smoke and shadow, according to high-ranking former U.S. officials with access to classified reports.

 

"We spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms," one former intelligence official said.

 

Despite the poor results, Bush White House officials and CIA leaders continued to insist that the harsh measures applied against Abu Zubaida and others produced useful intelligence that disrupted terrorist plots and saved American lives.

 

Two weeks ago, Bush's vice president, Richard B. Cheney, renewed that assertion in an interview with CNN, saying that "the enhanced interrogation program" stopped "a great many" terrorist attacks on the level of Sept. 11.

 

"I've seen a report that was written, based upon the intelligence that we collected then, that itemizes the specific attacks that were stopped by virtue of what we learned through those programs," Cheney asserted, adding that the report is "still classified," and, "I can't give you the details of it without violating classification."

 

Since 2006, Senate intelligence committee members have pressed the CIA, in classified briefings, to provide examples of specific leads that were obtained from Abu Zubaida through the use of waterboarding and other methods, according to officials familiar with the requests.

 

The agency provided none, the officials said.

[Gene Frenkle]

Whilst I typically agree with you, in all fairness to the other side I have NEVER seen this particular wingnut proclaim itself to a either a Christian, or compassionate.

 

That probably doesn't surprise you.

Damn, I'm getting my wingnuts confused?

[Gene Frenkle]

Frenkle's leading the idiot race by a few lengths, though, for trying to disprove an unprovable statement with a ridiculously specious misapplication of a somewhat questionable generalization to a specific event.

 

bull sh-- like that is what makes this board worthwhile...

That made me laugh.

[Gene Frenkle]

The application of techniques such as waterboarding -- a form of simulated drowning that U.S. officials had previously deemed a crime -- prompted a sudden torrent of names and facts. Abu Zubaida began unspooling the details of various al-Qaeda plots, including plans to unleash weapons of mass destruction.

 

Abu Zubaida's revelations triggered a series of alerts and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms. The interrogations led directly to the arrest of Jose Padilla, the man Abu Zubaida identified as heading an effort to explode a radiological "dirty bomb" in an American city. Padilla was held in a naval brig for 3 1/2 years on the allegation but was never charged in any such plot. Every other lead ultimately dissolved into smoke and shadow, according to high-ranking former U.S. officials with access to classified reports.

 

"We spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms," one former intelligence official said.

 

Despite the poor results, Bush White House officials and CIA leaders continued to insist that the harsh measures applied against Abu Zubaida and others produced useful intelligence that disrupted terrorist plots and saved American lives.

 

Two weeks ago, Bush's vice president, Richard B. Cheney, renewed that assertion in an interview with CNN, saying that "the enhanced interrogation program" stopped "a great many" terrorist attacks on the level of Sept. 11.

 

"I've seen a report that was written, based upon the intelligence that we collected then, that itemizes the specific attacks that were stopped by virtue of what we learned through those programs," Cheney asserted, adding that the report is "still classified," and, "I can't give you the details of it without violating classification."

 

Since 2006, Senate intelligence committee members have pressed the CIA, in classified briefings, to provide examples of specific leads that were obtained from Abu Zubaida through the use of waterboarding and other methods, according to officials familiar with the requests.

 

The agency provided none, the officials said.

Please don't ruin my gut reaction with your facts.

[Cheeseburger_in_paradise]

How long have we known about waterboarding and pissing on their korans, and nudity and dogs in their faces etc etc ?

 

Dick Cheney can shove his opinions up his ass.

 

Will you get more information after water boarding

 

10 times in 1 month

20 times in 1 month

50 times in 1 month

180 times in 1 month

 

You'd think at some point the guy would figure out he's not going to drown. But, Nudity? Dogs? That sounds like my local police and county jail. Big deal.

[Fingon]

Obama white house:

 

President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.

 

“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30335592/

 

i guess water boarding still doesn't work?

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

I don't think you understand. If we play nice, then they'll play nice. If we don't waterboard, they'll stop decapitating people on video or stringing bodies up from bridges. It's like nuclear weapons. Once we stop our nuclear program, countries like NK and Iran will follow suit.

 

You're really not getting this, are you...

I don't anyone thinks they will play nice... that is beside the point.... We are dealing with terrorists who don't care about the tenants of their own religion or morals... the beat their women and treat them like cattle... that is beside the point.

 

What we need to think about is who do we defend ourselves while living up to our own moral code... it may be more difficult but we need to live up to our standards not others. Both extremes do this, but if RWers don't understand their own hypocrisy on this point than I guess I can now understand why they don't live up and consistently justify their own mistakes while attacking everyone else for not living up to so called religious crap they shovel on everyone else.

 

Also, water boarding it appears the other techniques listed would not necessarily fall the torture category.

 

P.S. I don't trust anything that drunken shoot a friend sack of Sh$t Cheney says anyway.

[GG]

A far more serious issue is Obama contradicting Emanuel on the potential of monkey trials of Bush Admin officials.

 

Forget for a moment the advisers' role was to define new policy for people outside existing laws & jurisdictions - an equally "valid" counter-partisan claim could be made against Obama admin officials that they failed in their duties to protect Americans if there's another attack on US citizens by terrorists, since they weakened the defenses that had been set up over the past decade.

 

At some point Obama has to stop trying to please everybody and act like a Chief Executive.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Do we want to be like them? Beat people senseless until they talk?

 

What is it America that stands for?

Truth, Justice and the American Dream?

 

Lies, Torture and Secrecy?

 

It's funny to hear the right talk about our Founding Fathers

Our founding fathers had noble ideas for the nation they were creating. Ideas like freedom, justice, and equality.

 

Not torture.

 

And now it appears that the current Administration is allowing an investigation into torture tactics and they can go as high as Dick Cheney.

[GG]

It's funny to hear the right talk about our Founding Fathers

Our founding fathers had noble ideas for the nation they were creating. Ideas like freedom, justice, and equality.

 

I take it the extent of your knowledge of US history comes from kindergarten coloring books?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

A far more serious issue is Obama contradicting Emanuel on the potential of monkey trials of Bush Admin officials.

 

Forget for a moment the advisers' role was to define new policy for people outside existing laws & jurisdictions - an equally "valid" counter-partisan claim could be made against Obama admin officials that they failed in their duties to protect Americans if there's another attack on US citizens by terrorists, since they weakened the defenses that had been set up over the past decade.

 

At some point Obama has to stop trying to please everybody and act like a Chief Executive.

 

thanks for hitting the nail on the head.

 

By prosectuing those guilty of abusing our Constitution he is acting as the Chief Executive.

 

The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights which prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines or cruel and unusual punishments.

[GG]

thanks for hitting the nail on the head.

 

By prosectuing those guilty of abusing our Constitution he is acting as the Chief Executive.

 

The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights which prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines or cruel and unusual punishments.

 

Way to get the point (as usual). Bravo.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Way to get the point (as usual). Bravo.

What's that?? You don't believe in the Constitution? I provided you what is the Eighth Amendment.

All you have conjecture and disdain for Obama.

 

 

You'd think at some point the guy would figure out he's not going to drown. But, Nudity? Dogs? That sounds like my local police and county jail. Big deal.

Would you like to be dumped into a pile with 6 or more naked men?

 

Would you like to have an attach dog barking and snapping inched from your appendage?