Steely Dan Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Why is everyone eager to waste a #11 on a LT? We molded an undrafted Peters into a Pro Bowler. You don't see any elite undrafted pass rushers. We need to use the #11 for a DE or OLB, which are much bigger needs. Peters gave up the most sacks in the league last year at 11.5. Whoever plays LT can't do worse than last, right? Oher has been described as "soft" and "has motivation issues". Sounds like Mike Williams Jr. PASS RUSHER PLEASE! I'd pass on Oher too. Unless Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe somehow fall to the Bills then go for it. Otherwise as my sig says take Maybin and then hopefully Eben Britton will be there at #28. I think Oher has too many questions about his work ethic and when the movie comes out one wonders how it will affect him. To me he's more of a player that will make headlines for the team who drafts him. It's also possible that all the attention will motivate him. Too risky IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordByrd Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 and yet you find a way to call someone who's never played a down in the NFL a bust. I didn't say he IS as bust. That doesn't even make sense. I think he WILL be a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Oher is a very good player, and his negatives are nowhere close to some of the players people want to draft on here. (Raji) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordByrd Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Big fish in a little pond? Huh? If playing in the ACC is suddenly a huge question mark, then Aaron Curry, Everette Brown, Eugene Monroe, Hakeem Nicks, etc should all be sliding down draft boards, right? http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=160254 check out who he did well against. obviously Raji played well in college, there's no doubt. but so did john mccargo, erik flowers, and mike williams. motivation and character have to be there in order to be a freakish NFL player. raw talent only takes you so far. big boy raji just looks like another one of the guys who peaked in college. one last thing- please remember this conversation in the future if BJ ends up being legit, and call me out. I will have no problem with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBills Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 because he has a very high upside to him. i think he is going to be a very good LT in this league. here's to hoping for oher at 11 and mack at 28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcolosi Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Why is everyone eager to waste a #11 on a LT? We molded an undrafted Peters into a Pro Bowler. You don't see any elite undrafted pass rushers. We need to use the #11 for a DE or OLB, which are much bigger needs. Peters gave up the most sacks in the league last year at 11.5. Whoever plays LT can't do worse than last, right? Oher has been described as "soft" and "has motivation issues". Sounds like Mike Williams Jr. PASS RUSHER PLEASE! "You don't see any elite undrafted pass rushers." two words: james harrison do your homework bud...made steelers as undrafted rookie free agent http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrJa23.htm OT is far more pressing for this team than DE, unless we plan on not utilizing our WR corps and getting Trent killed and hoping that one DE makes us a top 10 defense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordByrd Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 "You don't see any elite undrafted pass rushers." two words: james harrison do your homework bud...made steelers as undrafted rookie free agent http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrJa23.htm OT is far more pressing for this team than DE, unless we plan on not utilizing our WR corps and getting Trent killed and hoping that one DE makes us a top 10 defense... James Harrison and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffery Lester Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Once again you fail to give credit where it is due. If it was so easy to mold players into elite LTs teams wouldn't be paying 10+ million per year for them would they? It just points out once again how we squandered away a player with freakish natural abilities. And yea, I really wanted to use that #11 pick on a DE when we had 2 good tackles...but now that idea is just preposterous. But hey, it could be worse. At least you aren't suggesting we draft a TE at #11... Oh yea and I love how you guys throw around that 11.5 number like it actually means anything. You cannot just count the number of sacks accumulated by players who lined up across from JP, as defenses have been known to stunt. I know usually that stuff is reserved for peewee football but it turns out NFL teams actually do stunt. Also, JP would not have given up nearly as many sacks if he had gotten help the way that almost every other LT in the league does. But he was so good that the Bills coaching staff felt they could leave him isolated every play, so your 11.5 isn't factoring the sacks that were avoided because we had extra help across the line. Just stop pretending the guy wasn't good. Say it with me - we lost a great player because the Bills are CHEAP. Accept it and get over it, but stop pretending this was a brilliant move that makes the Bills better. Say it with me We traded away a player who layed down and did not give a shi........ about his team. so accept it and get over it the malcontent is gone. Come up with a new reason to B word about the bills your Peters argument is getting real stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 James Harrison and? The issue I have with those calling for a pass rusher is please tell me who is your pass rusher of choice? Outside of Orakpo and possibly Everette Brown no one else grades out as a guy worth taking with pick 11. The love for Ayers to makes me ill as the guys college numbers are horrible but because he had a great post season all of a sudden he's a great player, sorry not buying it if anything he'll be a great Left DE ie solid against the run and perhaps an average pass rusher in other words what we already have in Kelsay and Denney. Maybin on the other hand is worrisome to me because if he can play at the new weight he's found this offseason (see Erik Flowers). Let's also not forget Aaron Schobel is due back in 2009, who was and is our pass rusher but who do we have returning at Left OT? oh that's right the savior Demetrius Bell. Give me Oher at #11 just incase the unproven Bell shows he isn't a great Left OT and if does then shift Oher to LG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Let's also not forget Aaron Schobel is due back in 2009, who was and is our pass rusher... It does need to be pointed out however that Aaron Schobel will be 32 years old at season's start, has only played in 21 of the last 36 games and has only 7.5 sacks in those 21 games. I hope I'm wrong but these numbers suggest that if he plays a full season that he'll be lucky to get 6 sacks in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Why is everyone eager to waste a #11 on a LT? We molded an undrafted Peters into a Pro Bowler. You don't see any elite undrafted pass rushers. We need to use the #11 for a DE or OLB, which are much bigger needs. Peters gave up the most sacks in the league last year at 11.5. Whoever plays LT can't do worse than last, right? Oher has been described as "soft" and "has motivation issues". Sounds like Mike Williams Jr. PASS RUSHER PLEASE! You don't seem to have a coherent argument except "Pass rusher, please." No, thanks. Anyone who uses the 11.5 sack stat despite the fact that it is blatantly made up by some guy on his own website with no credentials. doesn't deserve to be listened to. The correct number was closer to 5, after looking one by one at all the questionable plays. And whoever plays LT can't do worse? Yeah, um, what? Whoever plays next will deserve to get a $10 mill/year contract only in the Bizarro Universe. It would be extremely easy to do much worse than Peters last year. Particularly at the end he was once again excellent. Walker, for one, can't handle speed rushers. While powerful, he is stiff, a natural right tackle. One more thought. What is the worst that could happen at each position if we don't fill the need. RDE: If we have a lousy RDE, the worst that could happen is that we don't have a significant pass rush. Not good. Would effect our season. OLT: The worst that could happen is that we can't stop the run well or cover TEs and backs on that side. Not good. Would effect our season. TE: The worst that could happen is that we have one less target and have to rely on Fine and Schoumann for blocking. Not good. Would effect our season. LG: The worst that could happen is that we have problems running left and the pocket sometimes collapses. Not good. Would affect our season. S: The worst that could happen is that we don't get a good backup. Might possibly effect our season. DT: The worst that could happen is that we go with the guys we have, Stroud who will probably be excellent and the other who were acceptable or a bit better. Might effect our season if we get into depth issues. LT: The worst that could happen is that on one play a speed rusher breaks around the too-slow Walker and blind-side blasts Trent Edwards, putting him out for the season or even endangering his career with a dangerous injury. Absolutely would affect us beyond this season, possibly even for the next 8 - 10 years if we couldn't find a replacement. Sorry, the other positions aren't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Oher has been quoted by scouts as the most atheletic 300 pound lineman they've ever seen. You def have to consider him if he's there, but I have a feeling he wont be. But if that happens I think Raji or Orakpo will be. I love Britton at RT so I want him at 28. You're right, Britton might make a really good RT, but our need is at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Just like Glenn Dorsey Hey, exactly right. Dorsey is going to be a beast also. Just like Raji. It usually takes a year or two at the interior line. Dorsey will be terrific. So will Raji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I wouldn't call a "rookie" MLB who led the team in tackles and had some nice plays a bust. Poz was the most consistent LB on the team too. Poz isn't the Crowder type (blitzing Joey Porter LB), he's a run stopper. I think a lot of people forget about how decent Poz played because he doesn't dance and whatnot. There is room for improvement, but for a guy who has only played about 20 games, I like where he is. As for Raji, it has nothing to do with weed. His coach at BC has said he is basically lazy. You also have to remember who he was playing against. He was a bit of a big fish in a little pond. Not saying the guy is going to suck, just saying I feel there are better options at 11 than a DT. "As for Raji, it has nothing to do with weed. His coach at BC has said he is basically lazy." Yeah, could we get a link on that one? Talk about problems paraphrasing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Once again you fail to give credit where it is due. If it was so easy to mold players into elite LTs teams wouldn't be paying 10+ million per year for them would they? It just points out once again how we squandered away a player with freakish natural abilities. And yea, I really wanted to use that #11 pick on a DE when we had 2 good tackles...but now that idea is just preposterous. But hey, it could be worse. At least you aren't suggesting we draft a TE at #11... Oh yea and I love how you guys throw around that 11.5 number like it actually means anything. You cannot just count the number of sacks accumulated by players who lined up across from JP, as defenses have been known to stunt. I know usually that stuff is reserved for peewee football but it turns out NFL teams actually do stunt. Also, JP would not have given up nearly as many sacks if he had gotten help the way that almost every other LT in the league does. But he was so good that the Bills coaching staff felt they could leave him isolated every play, so your 11.5 isn't factoring the sacks that were avoided because we had extra help across the line. Just stop pretending the guy wasn't good. Say it with me - we lost a great player because the Bills are CHEAP. Accept it and get over it, but stop pretending this was a brilliant move that makes the Bills better. Don't treat the 11.5 as a real number. Remember the source. The guy, just some schmo, just guessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 James Harrison and? Ha ha ha ha. He destroys your argument and you just make a new one. Hilarious. Did you say "There is only one undrafted elite passrusher?" Nope, you said there were none. Richard Dent was an eighth rounder. There are only seven rounds now. Adewale Ogunleye was undrafted. D'Marco Farr was undrafted. Bryce Paup was a sixth rounder, so he almost qualifies. But wait, I've got your answer for you. You could say "James Harrison, Richard Dent, Adewale Ogunleye, D'Marco Farr, Bryce Paup and?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Say it with me We traded away a player who layed down and did not give a shi........ about his team. so accept it and get over it the malcontent is gone. Come up with a new reason to B word about the bills your Peters argument is getting real stale. I'll say it with you "We traded away a player who ..." Sorry, I like to confine myself to the truth. A bit more realistically "We traded away a player who was unsatisfied for extremely good reason. He was the lowest-paid starting LT in the league, despite having made a very well-deserved Pro Bowl in 2007." We should be able to agree on that. You don't like him, fine. But he was still a very fine LT. And there's a very good chance that in the future people will be saying, "Yeah, in the oughts, Walter Jones and Jonathan Ogden. In the teens, Jason Peters and ..." It's not a sure thing. But if you had to pick one guy to bet on, Peters would be a very good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 The issue I have with those calling for a pass rusher is please tell me who is your pass rusher of choice? Outside of Orakpo and possibly Everette Brown no one else grades out as a guy worth taking with pick 11. The love for Ayers to makes me ill as the guys college numbers are horrible but because he had a great post season all of a sudden he's a great player, sorry not buying it if anything he'll be a great Left DE ie solid against the run and perhaps an average pass rusher in other words what we already have in Kelsay and Denney. Maybin on the other hand is worrisome to me because if he can play at the new weight he's found this offseason (see Erik Flowers). Let's also not forget Aaron Schobel is due back in 2009, who was and is our pass rusher but who do we have returning at Left OT? oh that's right the savior Demetrius Bell. Give me Oher at #11 just incase the unproven Bell shows he isn't a great Left OT and if does then shift Oher to LG. "Maybin on the other hand is worrisome to me because if he can play at the new weight he's found this offseason (see Erik Flowers AND DWIGHT FREENEY)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 You don't seem to have a coherent argument except "Pass rusher, please." No, thanks. Anyone who uses the 11.5 sack stat despite the fact that it is blatantly made up by some guy on his own website with no credentials. doesn't deserve to be listened to. The correct number was closer to 5, after looking one by one at all the questionable plays. The correct number is NOT 5. Every LT gets credited with sacks they probably shouldn't be, not just Peters. There is not some league-wide conspiracy to make him look bad, he just sucked balls last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Once again you fail to give credit where it is due. If it was so easy to mold players into elite LTs teams wouldn't be paying 10+ million per year for them would they? It just points out once again how we squandered away a player with freakish natural abilities. And yea, I really wanted to use that #11 pick on a DE when we had 2 good tackles...but now that idea is just preposterous. But hey, it could be worse. At least you aren't suggesting we draft a TE at #11... Oh yea and I love how you guys throw around that 11.5 number like it actually means anything. You cannot just count the number of sacks accumulated by players who lined up across from JP, as defenses have been known to stunt. I know usually that stuff is reserved for peewee football but it turns out NFL teams actually do stunt. Also, JP would not have given up nearly as many sacks if he had gotten help the way that almost every other LT in the league does. But he was so good that the Bills coaching staff felt they could leave him isolated every play, so your 11.5 isn't factoring the sacks that were avoided because we had extra help across the line. Just stop pretending the guy wasn't good. Say it with me - we lost a great player because the Bills are CHEAP. Accept it and get over it, but stop pretending this was a brilliant move that makes the Bills better. Dude, you are just stupid. I am just so sick of listening to you rant about how great Peters was. Did you get to watch even one Bills game living in South Georgia? Peters was AWFUL last year. Say it again!! He was beaten several times in EVERY game he played last year. Langston Walker or whoever plays LT this coming season will more than adequately replace him. The Bills are not cheap. Was Pittsburg cheap to let Alan Faneca go to the Jets? Is every team cheap for not signing everyone of their own free agents? I dont' think so!! So just give it a rest and try and look at the big picture of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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