BillsVet Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Amazing the difference between teams. War Room Decision Makers One thing which ceases to amaze is how successful teams do things. Philly and NE have their coach running the show, while other good teams have a de facto GM. But Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Mike Brown, and Ralph Wilson still run the show in Dallas, Oakland, Cincinnati, and Buffalo. Those teams have combined for 0 playoff wins in the past five seasons.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I honestly dont believe Ralph does anything. I dont think he does any player evaluations, like Jerry Jones does. The draft is on Modrak and his scouting staff and the coaches. Maybe Russ Brandon gets involved, but again, probably not much.
Ramius Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Amazing the difference between teams. War Room Decision Makers One thing which ceases to amaze is how successful teams do things. Philly and NE have their coach running the show, while other good teams have a de facto GM. But Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Mike Brown, and Ralph Wilson still run the show in Dallas, Oakland, Cincinnati, and Buffalo. Those teams have combined for 0 playoff wins in the past five seasons. Having final say != makes the decisions on who to draft. Everything that the Bills organization does needs to be run by Wilson to get his approval but that doesn't mean he's sitting in the war room with his draft magazine determining who to pick.
K-9 Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Even when Ralph is at his most meddlesome, the Bills have always run their WR by consensus. Equal input by scouting, coaching, GM, and Ralph, with Ralph having final say if consensus can't be reached. But it usually is and Ralph won't stand in the way if he's outnumbered. GO BILLS!!!
Never NEVER Give-up Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 You're only focusing on 2 teams. There are plenty of other good or great teams who have non-coaches making decisions: Polian (Colts), AJ Smith (Bolts), Reinfeldt (Titans), Colbert (Steelers - SB Champs), Ravens (Newsome) & Reese (G-men) among others.
Dan Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 If I were the owner of an NFL team, I would insist that I be the one that writes the guy's name on that piece of paper and hands it to the lackey that takes it downstairs. That way I could feel like I was involved somehow.
oddoublee Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 You're only focusing on 2 teams. There are plenty of other good or great teams who have non-coaches making decisions: Polian (Colts), AJ Smith (Bolts), Reinfeldt (Titans), Colbert (Steelers - SB Champs), Ravens (Newsome) & Reese (G-men) among others. Those first two names sound familiar. Sigh
Lurker Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Ralph Wilson still run the show in...Buffalo. Based on the fact that Ralph sits in the War Room and likes to hear what the scouting department's doing? That's a stretch in logic, IMO. Ralph's a football man who's been around the league for decades, not some rich kid with a toy, who's only interest in the NFL is as an investment or ego enhancer. My guess is the Rooney's are no less involved on draft day. Nor is Pat Bowlen, Jeff Lurie or Clark Hunt.
BillsVet Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 You're only focusing on 2 teams. There are plenty of other good or great teams who have non-coaches making decisions: Polian (Colts), AJ Smith (Bolts), Reinfeldt (Titans), Colbert (Steelers - SB Champs), Ravens (Newsome) & Reese (G-men) among others. Those are some fine GM's that run their teams respective war room. Everyone of those guys is indeed outstanding. I'd add Ted Thompson (GM) Thomas Dimitroff (ATL) Parcells (MIA) Pioli (KC and Parcells' son in law) I've been a big advocate of a GM who runs the draft, while the owner should be part, they won't make decisions. I guess to some it's a crazy conspiracy theory to say Ralph has significant input.
BillsVet Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Based on the fact that Ralph sits in the War Room and likes to hear what the scouting department's doing? That's a stretch in logic, IMO. Ralph's a football man who's been around the league for decades, not some rich kid with a toy, who's only interest in the NFL is as an investment or ego enhancer. My guess is the Rooney's are no less involved on draft day. Nor is Pat Bowlen, Jeff Lurie or Clark Hunt. Ralph's indeed been around the game for a long time. But he's not a talent evaluator and doesn't spend much time judging talent. Rooney has/had Colbert, Bowlen has a GM in Xanders, Lurie has Andy Reid, and Hunt has Scott Pioli. The latter hiring was the single greatest offseason move in the NFL.
ChasBB Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I honestly dont believe Ralph does anything. I dont think he does any player evaluations, like Jerry Jones does. The draft is on Modrak and his scouting staff and the coaches. Maybe Russ Brandon gets involved, but again, probably not much. Agree -- Ralph may be the ultimate decision maker, but I think he just serves as a rubber stamp for the suggestions that his staff makes for the most part.
Lurker Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Ralph's indeed been around the game for a long time. But he's not a talent evaluator and doesn't spend much time judging talent. And he'd agree with that assessment. That doesn't mean he's not interested in the picks, or doesn't have any thoughts worth sharing with his talent team. Rooney has/had Colbert, Bowlen has a GM in Xanders, Lurie has Andy Reid, and Hunt has Scott Pioli. The latter hiring was the single greatest offseason move in the NFL. And Ralph has Modrak, who could've been a GM any time he wanted, but chose to remain a scout because that's what he loves (a lot like Butler). A job title doesn't change the dynamic of talent evaluation. And BTW, do you honestely believe Andy Reid is a good talent evaluator? And here's an interesting quote about Brian Xanders (I don't know about you, but I bet Bowlen may be having a few sleepless nights this week). "While with the Falcons in 1994, Herock hired Xanders primarily to work with the salary cap. When asked about Xanders in his new position, Herock praised his football background but added: "Brian's never scouted on the road. He doesn't have those experiences going on the road, being at the practices, getting in there and getting to know guys. That's his challenge. He knows the cap, he understands the cap and he knows the technology that's used now to get the job done. His big thing will be to make the call on whether a guy can play or not and that now he has to know it all. "
San-O Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Even when Ralph is at his most meddlesome, the Bills have always run their WR by consensus. Equal input by scouting, coaching, GM, and Ralph, with Ralph having final say if consensus can't be reached. But it usually is and Ralph won't stand in the way if he's outnumbered. GO BILLS!!! Not so. Ralph was reportedly furious with Ol' Whitey's drafting of tiny wide receiver Parrish with the Bills first pick in '05, which again reportedly was the final straw and led to Donahoe's ultimate demise.
BillsVet Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 And BTW, do you honestely believe Andy Reid is a good talent evaluator? If he's had personnel control since 2000 or so, then I'd say he knows what he's doing. He couldn't make the playoffs 7 out of 10 years without the players. His record in UFA isn't as great, but on draft day he knows what he's doing. Anyone can throw an exception out there to marginalize him, but making the playoffs 7 out of 10 seasons means he's found talent, and replaced players pretty well for the duration.
San-O Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Amazing the difference between teams. War Room Decision Makers One thing which ceases to amaze is how successful teams do things. Philly and NE have their coach running the show, while other good teams have a de facto GM. But Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Mike Brown, and Ralph Wilson still run the show in Dallas, Oakland, Cincinnati, and Buffalo. Those teams have combined for 0 playoff wins in the past five seasons. And that is almost certain to continue. It took 11 wins last year to make the cut, and the AFC East is going to be brutal this year.
K-9 Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Not so. Ralph was reportedly furious with Ol' Whitey's drafting of tiny wide receiver Parrish with the Bills first pick in '05, which again reportedly was the final straw and led to Donahoe's ultimate demise. Furious perhaps. But did RW veto the pick? No. That parallels what I was saying. Ralph has never been the type to get in the way in the war room. GO BILLS!!!
Lurker Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 If he's had personnel control since 2000 or so, then I'd say he knows what he's doing. He couldn't make the playoffs 7 out of 10 years without the players. His record in UFA isn't as great, but on draft day he knows what he's doing. Anyone can throw an exception out there to marginalize him, but making the playoffs 7 out of 10 seasons means he's found talent, and replaced players pretty well for the duration. Take away Donovan and see what his team would have accomplished. IMO, Reid's terribly over-rated...his praise for Peters may be the final straw with Laurie if it blows up on him.
BillsVet Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Take away Donovan and see what his team would have accomplished. IMO, Reid's terribly over-rated...his praise for Peters may be the final straw with Laurie if it blows up on him. You can't summarily dismiss one pick and then say the coach is worthless. But I'll bite here. Bryan Westbrook, Trent Cole in the mid rounds, along with Mike Patterson and Brodrick Bunkley are solid DT's in the first. Michael Lewis at S, OT Shawn Andrews, and OG Todd Herremans are some examples. Billy Celek is an up and coming TE to replace LJ Smith. Reid is the anti-Bills draft decision maker. He predominantly takes big men early, and looks later for non-lineman. He doesn't have a great track record at WR, but he more than makes up for it by getting the OL and DL right. 7 playoff appearances don't happen without talented players. And Andy Reid picks 'em.
Lurker Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 But I'll bite here. Bryan Westbrook, Trent Cole in the mid rounds, along with Mike Patterson and Brodrick Bunkley are solid DT's in the first. Michael Lewis at S, OT Shawn Andrews, and OG Todd Herremans are some examples. Billy Celek is an up and coming TE to replace LJ Smith. So, by your own list... 2002 2 guys 2004 1 2005 3 2006 1 2007 1 Not exactly different than any other front office. Get the griddle out, Andy...
GG Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Furious perhaps. But did RW veto the pick? No. That parallels what I was saying. Ralph has never been the type to get in the way in the war room. GO BILLS!!! Dwayne Wright says hello.
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