Kelsay too?

[ax4782]

...So perhaps I shouldn't have said "T.O.'s signing had nothing to do with competing for wins". The fact is though, the move WAS primarily a marketing ploy. If you are unable to see that Ralph Wilson is more concerned about the bottom line than the win/loss column, you're not paying attention. Peters and Dockery, two of our best three O-linemen from last season, are gone. The whole left side of the line will have to be rebuilt, so the replacement roller coaster continues. If we don't successfully replace Peters and Dockery, as well as add depth, you could have 4 T.O.'s and it wouldn't make a difference. Trent will not find anyone from his back or on the sideline.

 

PLS SMD

 

Having a winning team is the best marketing ploy and Ralph knows that. Every team knows that. You're either in a Big Market and just have great marketing by virtue of that fact, or you win games. Take NE for example. You think they had a huge following in the early 90s when they were losing all of those games. You think the Detroit Lions have a huge following of fans and merchandise sales? People in Detroit are embarrassed to root for the Lions, let alone people living outside of Detroit. Anytime you bring in someone who can help the team win, it's a marketing ploy. The two facts don't have to be mutually exclusive or have one be the bigger purpose. They want to do both.

 

As for Dockery and Peters being two of our best three linemen, I disagree. Butler and Walker played much better through the course of last season than either of them did. The statistics show it. We ran better to the right side last year. The right side gave up far fewer sacks than the left side of the line after week one when Peters was back at LT. Dockery consistently got blown up by smaller DL players and simply could not get it together in the running game. Considering that Preston and Fowler were so bad that whichever one of them played they would be the fifth best lineman on the team, by default either Peters or Dockery were our third best starters on the line. But that doesn't say much. We've gotten better at C with the signing of Hangartner and I don't think the Bills are done in FA. I strongly believe that we will sign Kendall Simmons at G and draft a very good LT prospect with the #11 pick. There are a lot of solid DE prospects that are likely to be available with the #28 pick, such as Ayers and Johnson, so Buffalo is probably going to be able to fill a lot of these voids. I also wouldn't count out Buffalo trying to move up in the first round from #28 if a player they want is available as the first round progresses. Let's try to keep the pessimism to a minimum until we see what the team looks like in training camp and the preseason.

[rpcolosi]

I would be giddy to see this team get out from under the huge contract they gave that wacky waiving inflatable arm flailing tube man. If we could trade him for a bag of popcorn I'd be psyched!

 

 

for all the crap we give kelsay... Scouts Inc seems to think he is a solid player.

 

 

Comment: Kelsay is a five-year veteran that has been extremely consistent and durable defender for the Bills. He has average size, good athleticism and plays with a high motor. He is a tough, competitive player who is a sound technician. He has great initial quickness to close ground and get into blockers early in the play. He reads and reacts quickly as well as using his hands effectively to maintain leverage in his gap responsibility. He anticipates well and can gain an advantage as a pass-rusher on long-yardage situations. Kelsay isn't a powerful player, but he has enough strength and uses effective pad level to anchor well versus the run. He is a fluid athlete who uses excellent lateral quickness and agility to chase down plays from the backside. He runs well and shows good range to stay active to the pile. He has a variety of pass-rush moves and counters, but he doesn't reset well if engaged early in the play. He is more of a finesse player than a power defender who is best when on the move. Kelsay continues to be a productive player with effort, instincts, technique and quickness.

[cåblelady]

Who would do the Celino & Barnes commercials? (hehe)

[timba]

for all the crap we give kelsay... Scouts Inc seems to think he is a solid player.

 

 

Comment: Kelsay is a five-year veteran that has been extremely consistent and durable defender for the Bills. He has average size, good athleticism and plays with a high motor. He is a tough, competitive player who is a sound technician. He has great initial quickness to close ground and get into blockers early in the play. He reads and reacts quickly as well as using his hands effectively to maintain leverage in his gap responsibility. He anticipates well and can gain an advantage as a pass-rusher on long-yardage situations. Kelsay isn't a powerful player, but he has enough strength and uses effective pad level to anchor well versus the run. He is a fluid athlete who uses excellent lateral quickness and agility to chase down plays from the backside. He runs well and shows good range to stay active to the pile. He has a variety of pass-rush moves and counters, but he doesn't reset well if engaged early in the play. He is more of a finesse player than a power defender who is best when on the move. Kelsay continues to be a productive player with effort, instincts, technique and quickness.

 

I read that and it STILL doesn't justify the contract he has. His play has been at about the same level as Denny and I doubt we'd see much of a drop off in the D-Line performance without him there. If we can get rid of him and open up some cap room for some players who DESERVE that money, I'm all for it.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

for all the crap we give kelsay... Scouts Inc seems to think he is a solid player.

 

 

Comment: Kelsay is a five-year veteran that has been extremely consistent and durable defender for the Bills. He has average size, good athleticism and plays with a high motor. He is a tough, competitive player who is a sound technician. He has great initial quickness to close ground and get into blockers early in the play. He reads and reacts quickly as well as using his hands effectively to maintain leverage in his gap responsibility. He anticipates well and can gain an advantage as a pass-rusher on long-yardage situations. Kelsay isn't a powerful player, but he has enough strength and uses effective pad level to anchor well versus the run. He is a fluid athlete who uses excellent lateral quickness and agility to chase down plays from the backside. He runs well and shows good range to stay active to the pile. He has a variety of pass-rush moves and counters, but he doesn't reset well if engaged early in the play. He is more of a finesse player than a power defender who is best when on the move. Kelsay continues to be a productive player with effort, instincts, technique and quickness.

Damn you found the player we are looking for . What was his name again. Giter done boys.

[keepthefaith]

Having a winning team is the best marketing ploy and Ralph knows that. Every team knows that. You're either in a Big Market and just have great marketing by virtue of that fact, or you win games. Take NE for example. You think they had a huge following in the early 90s when they were losing all of those games. You think the Detroit Lions have a huge following of fans and merchandise sales? People in Detroit are embarrassed to root for the Lions, let alone people living outside of Detroit. Anytime you bring in someone who can help the team win, it's a marketing ploy. The two facts don't have to be mutually exclusive or have one be the bigger purpose. They want to do both.

 

As for Dockery and Peters being two of our best three linemen, I disagree. Butler and Walker played much better through the course of last season than either of them did. The statistics show it. We ran better to the right side last year. The right side gave up far fewer sacks than the left side of the line after week one when Peters was back at LT. Dockery consistently got blown up by smaller DL players and simply could not get it together in the running game. Considering that Preston and Fowler were so bad that whichever one of them played they would be the fifth best lineman on the team, by default either Peters or Dockery were our third best starters on the line. But that doesn't say much. We've gotten better at C with the signing of Hangartner and I don't think the Bills are done in FA. I strongly believe that we will sign Kendall Simmons at G and draft a very good LT prospect with the #11 pick. There are a lot of solid DE prospects that are likely to be available with the #28 pick, such as Ayers and Johnson, so Buffalo is probably going to be able to fill a lot of these voids. I also wouldn't count out Buffalo trying to move up in the first round from #28 if a player they want is available as the first round progresses. Let's try to keep the pessimism to a minimum until we see what the team looks like in training camp and the preseason.

 

Cleaning house would be reason for great optimism. More of that would be a hopeful signal that Jauron is soon to go as well. Stockpile young talent for the next coach. A very good strategy for this season. '09 is a transition year for the Bills.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

T.O. was brought in to appease the disgruntled fan base, sell tickets, and merchandise. It was a marketing decision that had nothing to do with competing for wins.

you're right...

 

The Bills don't need a legitimate #2 WR to stop double-coverage on Lee Evans, or to keep 8 men out of the box, or to open up the slot, or to add a viable red-zone target.

 

It's all about marketing and selling jerseys.

 

Do you lay awake at night thinking this stuff up?

[loyal2dagame]

...So perhaps I shouldn't have said "T.O.'s signing had nothing to do with competing for wins". The fact is though, the move WAS primarily a marketing ploy. If you are unable to see that Ralph Wilson is more concerned about the bottom line than the win/loss column, you're not paying attention. Peters and Dockery, two of our best three O-linemen from last season, are gone. The whole left side of the line will have to be rebuilt, so the replacement roller coaster continues. If we don't successfully replace Peters and Dockery, as well as add depth, you could have 4 T.O.'s and it wouldn't make a difference. Trent will not find anyone from his back or on the sideline.

 

PLS SMD

 

marketing......eh?

 

so lets pay owens 6.5 million for one year and we'll make crazy money.

 

lets get real about t.o.

 

here's some numbers for you to chew on before you say it's primarily marketing:

 

lets say owens sells 25000 bills jerseys with his name on it. thats only 1million in sales based on an average price of 40.00. out of that 1million, owens gets a cut, the nflpa gets a cut, the nfl gets a cut, and the bills get a cut. lets say, and this is far from correct, but lets say the bills get 50%= 500,000

 

second, ticket sales. lets say for the sake of arguement ownes causes the bills a gain of 10,000 ticket sales per reg season game at an average cost of 56.00(which would be impossible to gain based on past seasons' ticket sales as there has rarely been 10k of tickets available anyways). that is an increase of $560,000.00 per game which works out to $3,920,000 over the 7 games played in buffalo. out of that amount the bills have to give 40% to the nfl. that leaves 2,352,000 for the bills

 

third advertising:

lets say the bills make another 3million in advertising and other merchandise from signing owens

 

final total

the bills are still taking a loss on the contract.

 

so yeah, signing a player to 6.5 mil to maybe gain 5.8 million is all about marketing

[Erik]

Cleaning house would be reason for great optimism. More of that would be a hopeful signal that Jauron is soom to go as well. Stockpile young talent for the next coach. A very good strategy for this season. '09 is a transition year for the Bills.

 

 

Wasn't Brandon the one who wanted to kick Jauron to the curb? Maybe he was given assurances that if Jauron can't crack .500 again this season he'd be gone and Brandon is fixing to bring on his new coach after this year.

[Endless Ike]

What do we do with Owens? Was he brought in for window dressing or did we just change plans on the fly? Are we trying to win this year or not. I'm getting mixed signals.

 

 

it's almost like the people running the team have no idea what they're doing, isn't it?

[Cynical]

you're right...

 

The Bills don't need a legitimate #2 WR to stop double-coverage on Lee Evans, or to keep 8 men out of the box, or to open up the slot, or to add a viable red-zone target.

 

That's why they initially targeted Coles. He was supposed to be the guy. He basically told the Bills to off.

 

It's all about marketing and selling jerseys.

 

It was not about selling jerseys. It was about stopping the bleeding. Season ticket renewals were tanking. The Bills needed a marquee signing to stem the tide. It was fortunate TO just happened to be that player.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

you're right...

 

The Bills don't need a legitimate #2 WR to stop double-coverage on Lee Evans, or to keep 8 men out of the box, or to open up the slot, or to add a viable red-zone target.

 

It's all about marketing and selling jerseys.

 

Do you lay awake at night thinking this stuff up?

 

... so I suppose T.O. doing interviews in Toronto and sitting court-side at a Raptors game was in order to keep 8 men out of the box and free up LE, and had nothing to do with marketing the Toronto transition eh? God, I swear with the intelligence level of most people on this board, it could be mistaken for an elementary school special needs class.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

That's why they initially targeted Coles. He was supposed to be the guy. He basically told the Bills to off.

 

 

 

It was not about selling jerseys. It was about stopping the bleeding. Season ticket renewals were tanking. The Bills needed a marquee signing to stem the tide. It was fortunate TO just happened to be that player.

 

Wow! someone who gets it! I'm not alone!

[Steely Dan]

 

What can they get for a pass rusher who can't rush the passer and falls for every change of direction play?

 

I think he could get 4 UFA picks for Buffalo.

 

 

Hey maybe you could trade Parrish, Kelsay, 28, and next years 6th to Detroit for 20 you'd have a pretty good chance of getting Pettigrew or Ayers there.

 

You are aware that Millen is no longer the GM there. Right?

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think if they were committed to winning this year and didn't dismantle their OL and create new holes which will now have to be addressed through the draft instead of filling previously existing holes, they could've been successful with TO. But now with rebuild mode upon us, what's the point? Trent won't survive behind whatever they put out there. It's just idiotic to begin rebuilding with a coach you know isn't going to be here. After a wasted season and a new coach, it kinda makes all these draft picks they're stockpiling useless, as they won't be "his guys" and don't know if they'll necessarily fit whatever system he'll bring with him. Then again, they'll probably keep DJ for "continuity."

 

Yeah, they shouldn't draft any guys for that reason!!

 

 

...So perhaps I shouldn't have said "T.O.'s signing had nothing to do with competing for wins". The fact is though, the move WAS primarily a marketing ploy. If you are unable to see that Ralph Wilson is more concerned about the bottom line than the win/loss column, you're not paying attention. Peters and Dockery, two of our best three O-linemen from last season, are gone. The whole left side of the line will have to be rebuilt, so the replacement roller coaster continues. If we don't successfully replace Peters and Dockery, as well as add depth, you could have 4 T.O.'s and it wouldn't make a difference. Trent will not find anyone from his back or on the sideline.

 

PLS SMD

 

You really don't have a clue do you? Look at the contracts recently handed out and that proves you wrong.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

I think he could get 4 UFA picks for Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

You are aware that Millen is no longer the GM there. Right?

 

 

 

Yeah, they shouldn't draft any guys for that reason!!

 

 

 

 

You really don't have a clue do you? Look at the contracts recently handed out and that proves you wrong.

Like Jauron's 3 year extension??

Try again fool.

[Steely Dan]

Like Jauron's 3 year extension?? laugh.gif

Try again fool.

 

Thanks, that one contract proves your point. I've been handily defeated!!

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

Thanks, that one contract proves your point. I've been handily defeated!!

 

At least you are noble in defeat.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

... so I suppose T.O. doing interviews in Toronto and sitting court-side at a Raptors game was in order to keep 8 men out of the box and free up LE, and had nothing to do with marketing the Toronto transition eh? God, I swear with the intelligence level of most people on this board, it could be mistaken for an elementary school special needs class.

nice smokescreen...

 

so, in your view of the world, they signed TO for 1 year to sell seats and merchandise, as well as help them to move the team to Toronto, and they don't desperately need a #2 WR to open up their anemic offense? Which, by scoring points, would jumpstart all of the supposed marketing woes?

 

I don't suppose it occurred to you that just maybe TO would immediately step in and solve their offensive production problems and maybe inject some money into the franchise at the same time? naw

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

That's why they initially targeted Coles. He was supposed to be the guy. He basically told the Bills to off.

 

 

 

It was not about selling jerseys. It was about stopping the bleeding. Season ticket renewals were tanking. The Bills needed a marquee signing to stem the tide. It was fortunate TO just happened to be that player.

ya, they had a critical need for a legitimate #2 WR, that's the point.

 

selling jerseys, selling season tickets, filling seats, creating buzz - choose your financial outcome...is the secondary benefit, not the primary.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

nice smokescreen...

 

so, in your view of the world, they signed TO for 1 year to sell seats and merchandise, as well as help them to move the team to Toronto, and they don't desperately need a #2 WR to open up their anemic offense? Which, by scoring points, would jumpstart all of the supposed marketing woes?

 

I don't suppose it occurred to you that just maybe TO would immediately step in and solve their offensive production problems and maybe inject some money into the franchise at the same time? naw

 

 

Had the Bills not laid an egg in a snooze-fest performance against Miami in Toronto and not mishandled the extension of a career losing HC, they would have never pulled the trigger on the $6 mil. PR stunt that was the T.O. signing. Any benefits from his presence are secondary to the PR role that T.O. served. More smoke and mirrors by Ralph Wilson to keep the sheep interested just enough. Also see Marv Levy as GM.