Ok, It's That Time Of Year Again To Define The Meaning

[Steely Dan]

Personally I'm annoyed by those who say Donte Whitner was a reach. He wouldn't have been around the next time the Bills picked and to me that's not a reach. IMO, taking a guy who should still be there with the next pick is a reach and that's the only way to define it.

 

A players production has a lot to do with it too. In the 2006 draft Michael Huff was taken at #7 and Whitner at #8.

 

Michael Huff

 

Donte Whitner

 

Also in that draft Vince Young and Matt Leinart were taken before Jay Cutler. If Cutler had been the first QB taken people would have called it a reach but in hindsight it wouldn't have been.

 

If a team wants a guy and he's not going to be there on the next pick taking him at their spot is just smart and not a reach.

 

A team cannot always trade back with another team even if it's only for an extra 7th round pick. If the other team has a guy targeted to go at their spot and they are sure he'll be there why would they trade up?

 

JMO

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

You're absolutely right, of course. If a team really wants a guy, but he's projected to go about 15-20 picks later...what the hell are they supposed to do?

 

Obviously the trade-down isn't always there. So you stick to your guns, and take your guy, pundits be damned.

[Steely Dan]

You're absolutely right, of course. If a team really wants a guy, but he's projected to go about 15-20 picks later...what the hell are they supposed to do?

 

Obviously the trade-down isn't always there. So you stick to your guns, and take your guy, pundits be damned.

 

I'm surprised to see that right now 80% agree with that. I would have thought a lot more people would be chiming in on the other choice.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I'm surprised to see that right now 80% agree with that. I would have thought a lot more people would be chiming in on the other choice.

They say that now, but you know when the draft comes along our guy will suddenly be a reach because he was projected to go 5 spots later!

[Rubes]

You just haven't yet heard from the crowd of knuckleheads who always clamor "They should've traded down!" even though it probably wasn't possible. Unless they were the GM.

[H2o]

I think McCargo was a reach for sure. All of the "draft experts" said there was no one likely to take him before us.

[cale]

You're absolutely right, of course. If a team really wants a guy, but he's projected to go about 15-20 picks later...what the hell are they supposed to do?

 

Obviously the trade-down isn't always there. So you stick to your guns, and take your guy, pundits be damned.

 

Except in Donte's case, Denver and/or Philadelphia offered us their pick and a *third* to move up to 8.

 

http://buf.scout.com/2/526808.html

 

If by some freak of nature Donte wasn't there at #14 or #15, Ngata would have still been there or there were other possibilities

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_Draft

 

It wouldn't have been the end of the world if we didn't get Donte. In fact, we eschewed some Pro Bowlers to get him at 8 when we very likely could have had him later. That my friend, by any objective measure, is a reach...

 

Now some folks were calling the McKelvin pick a reach. But I think that was a great pick. The kid is a game changer. Donte is not or up to this point, has not been a game changer.

 

C

[Magox]

You're absolutely right, of course. If a team really wants a guy, but he's projected to go about 15-20 picks later...what the hell are they supposed to do?

 

Obviously the trade-down isn't always there. So you stick to your guns, and take your guy, pundits be damned.

%100 agreed.

 

Reach is a term that is overused. At the end of the day, it all depends on how much value that guy adds to your team. I hear, that safety's, gaurds, centers and TE's shouldn't be drafted in the first round as a general rule of thumb, to me that sounds idiotic. I'd much rather have a probowl or 10 year starter TE chosen at the #10 spot then an average DE chosen in the same spot. If there is a guy that you feel fits the description of what your looking for, then you got to go after him.

[The Dean]

Except in Donte's case, Denver and/or Philadelphia offered us their pick and a *third* to move up to 8.

 

http://buf.scout.com/2/526808.html

 

If by some freak of nature Donte wasn't there at #14 or #15, Ngata would have still been there or there were other possibilities

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_Draft

 

It wouldn't have been the end of the world if we didn't get Donte. In fact, we eschewed some Pro Bowlers to get him at 8 when we very likely could have had him later. That my friend, by any objective measure, is a reach...

 

Now some folks were calling the McKelvin pick a reach. But I think that was a great pick. The kid is a game changer. Donte is not or up to this point, has not been a game changer.

 

C

 

They thought Donte would be gone, and they didn't want Ngata.

 

Again, I think Steely nailed the definition of a reach (I'm as shocked as anyone, honest).

 

You can't figure in a different player, to define a reach, particularly if that player plays a different position.

[Dan]

Where's the.. "anyone Buffalo picks" options?

[Ramius]

A draft "reach" is a term coined by idiot draftniks and so-called "experts" who badly miscalculated on where a player was going to be taken, to put the onus of their mistake on the team and not themselves. Mock drafters always assume they are 100% correct, and that NFL teams are wrong when it comes to drafting. So when an idiot mock drafter gets burned and a player is taken 15-20 spots before where they had them "projected," they need to pin their own failures on that of the NFL team.

 

I trust all 32 NFL franchises much more than some loser in mom's basement who posts his "mock draft."

[Steely Dan]

You just haven't yet heard from the crowd of knuckleheads who always clamor "They should've traded down!" even though it probably wasn't possible. Unless they were the GM.

 

Just think how many Super Bowls the Bills would have won if only some of the people here were GMs.

 

 

I think McCargo was a reach for sure. All of the "draft experts" said there was no one likely to take him before us.

 

The Giants were rumored to be interested in him.

 

 

Except in Donte's case, Denver and/or Philadelphia offered us their pick and a *third* to move up to 8.

 

http://buf.scout.com/2/526808.html

 

If by some freak of nature Donte wasn't there at #14 or #15, Ngata would have still been there or there were other possibilities

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_Draft

 

It wouldn't have been the end of the world if we didn't get Donte. In fact, we eschewed some Pro Bowlers to get him at 8 when we very likely could have had him later. That my friend, by any objective measure, is a reach...

 

Now some folks were calling the McKelvin pick a reach. But I think that was a great pick. The kid is a game changer. Donte is not or up to this point, has not been a game changer.

 

C

 

I don't know who. McKelvin was a rated a top 10 pick.

 

 

They thought Donte would be gone, and they didn't want Ngata.

 

Again, I think Steely nailed the definition of a reach (I'm as shocked as anyone, honest).

 

You can't figure in a different player, to define a reach, particularly if that player plays a different position.

 

Ummmmm...............thanks?

[billsrcursed]

A draft "reach" is a term coined by idiot draftniks and so-called "experts" who badly miscalculated on where a player was going to be taken, to put the onus of their mistake on the team and not themselves. Mock drafters always assume they are 100% correct, and that NFL teams are wrong when it comes to drafting. So when an idiot mock drafter gets burned and a player is taken 15-20 spots before where they had them "projected," they need to pin their own failures on that of the NFL team.

 

I trust all 32 NFL franchises much more than some loser in mom's basement who posts his "mock draft."

 

This is one of the better posts I've read on this site. Nice job!!

[Trader]

A reach is when your team selects a player in the draft even if they (your own scouting people) really have other players rated higher than that player. There are big reaches and little reaches. Sometimes a reach is a good idea and sometimes it is not.

 

In and of it self a reach is not a good or a bad thing. Every team does it.

 

If it happens too often, and the reaches are too long it is a sign that the front office is not getting the job done.

 

It is what it is.

[KD in CA]

It's a reach if any player drafted in the subsequent 20 picks turns out to be a more accomplished pro.

 

[/TSW posters who suffer from Whitner Derangement Syndrome]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s. best post ever on this topic by Ramius above.

[VJ91]

Personally I'm annoyed by those who say Donte Whitner was a reach. He wouldn't have been around the next time the Bills picked and to me that's not a reach. IMO, taking a guy who should still be there with the next pick is a reach and that's the only way to define it.

 

A players production has a lot to do with it too. In the 2006 draft Michael Huff was taken at #7 and Whitner at #8.

 

Michael Huff

 

Donte Whitner

 

Also in that draft Vince Young and Matt Leinart were taken before Jay Cutler. If Cutler had been the first QB taken people would have called it a reach but in hindsight it wouldn't have been.

 

If a team wants a guy and he's not going to be there on the next pick taking him at their spot is just smart and not a reach.

 

A team cannot always trade back with another team even if it's only for an extra 7th round pick. If the other team has a guy targeted to go at their spot and they are sure he'll be there why would they trade up?

 

JMO

 

Great post!

 

And there is not a single NFL GM or executive who even use the word "reach" or at least give it any credence, if they do utter it. It is only a product of all the draft "guru's" who analyze the players and comment during the draft itself, that ever talk about a team "reaching."

 

Here's a perfect example: The Bills "reach" for Mack at #11 in two weeks. The Kipers of the world will scream reach reach reach!! Fast forward 5 years, after Mack has earned his 4th consecutive Pro Bowl as the Bills' starting center, on his way to a Hall of Fame career. Do you think anyone will respect Kiper's whine of how the Bills reached for him on draft day? On the same token, let's say Mack goes where he "should" get drafted, to the Steelers with the last pick of the first round, and he goes on to have the same career for them. Would the Steelers deserve more credit for making the safe and obvious pick, if they have a need at center, with the 32nd pick in the draft? Of course not, but Kiper would praise them for the pick anyway! Same player, same potential career, two different draft scenerios.

 

"Reaching" means absolutely nothing to the reality of drafting players.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

%100 agreed.

 

Reach is a term that is overused. At the end of the day, it all depends on how much value that guy adds to your team. I hear, that safety's, gaurds, centers and TE's shouldn't be drafted in the first round as a general rule of thumb, to me that sounds idiotic. I'd much rather have a probowl or 10 year starter TE chosen at the #10 spot then an average DE chosen in the same spot. If there is a guy that you feel fits the description of what your looking for, then you got to go after him.

 

 

A reach is when your team selects a player in the draft even if they (your own scouting people) really have other players rated higher than that player. There are big reaches and little reaches. Sometimes a reach is a good idea and sometimes it is not.

 

In and of it self a reach is not a good or a bad thing. Every team does it.

 

If it happens too often, and the reaches are too long it is a sign that the front office is not getting the job done.

 

It is what it is.

Call it whatever you want. Like anything in life it's about value judgements. The more good value judgements you make the better for you.

[San-O]

Personally I'm annoyed by those who say Donte Whitner was a reach. He wouldn't have been around the next time the Bills picked and to me that's not a reach. IMO, taking a guy who should still be there with the next pick is a reach and that's the only way to define it.

 

A players production has a lot to do with it too. In the 2006 draft Michael Huff was taken at #7 and Whitner at #8.

 

Michael Huff

 

Donte Whitner

 

Also in that draft Vince Young and Matt Leinart were taken before Jay Cutler. If Cutler had been the first QB taken people would have called it a reach but in hindsight it wouldn't have been.

 

If a team wants a guy and he's not going to be there on the next pick taking him at their spot is just smart and not a reach.

 

A team cannot always trade back with another team even if it's only for an extra 7th round pick. If the other team has a guy targeted to go at their spot and they are sure he'll be there why would they trade up?

 

JMO

 

Whitner was absolutely a reach at # 8, when the selection was made, and one can see why.

 

There were analysts all over that couldn't figure that pick out, and were basically baffled.

[Steely Dan]

They say that now, but you know when the draft comes along our guy will suddenly be a reach because he was projected to go 5 spots later!

 

Well they're starting to rear their ugly heads. Our side of the argument is at 67.50% as of right now.

 

 

A reach is when your team selects a player in the draft even if they (your own scouting people) really have other players rated higher than that player. There are big reaches and little reaches. Sometimes a reach is a good idea and sometimes it is not.

 

In and of it self a reach is not a good or a bad thing. Every team does it.

 

If it happens too often, and the reaches are too long it is a sign that the front office is not getting the job done.

 

It is what it is.

 

How do you know where a teams scouting department has players rated?

 

 

It's a reach if any player drafted in the subsequent 20 picks turns out to be a more accomplished pro.

 

[/TSW posters who suffer from Whitner Derangement Syndrome]

 

 

p.s. best post ever on this topic by Ramius above.

 

 

 

Great post!

 

And there is not a single NFL GM or executive who even use the word "reach" or at least give it any credence, if they do utter it. It is only a product of all the draft "guru's" who analyze the players and comment during the draft itself, that ever talk about a team "reaching."

 

Here's a perfect example: The Bills "reach" for Mack at #11 in two weeks. The Kipers of the world will scream reach reach reach!! Fast forward 5 years, after Mack has earned his 4th consecutive Pro Bowl as the Bills' starting center, on his way to a Hall of Fame career. Do you think anyone will respect Kiper's whine of how the Bills reached for him on draft day? On the same token, let's say Mack goes where he "should" get drafted, to the Steelers with the last pick of the first round, and he goes on to have the same career for them. Would the Steelers deserve more credit for making the safe and obvious pick, if they have a need at center, with the 32nd pick in the draft? Of course not, but Kiper would praise them for the pick anyway! Same player, same potential career, two different draft scenerios.

 

"Reaching" means absolutely nothing to the reality of drafting players.

 

Great point about GM's and the word reach. Kiper will scream and yell on draft day. If the "reach" player has a lesser career than anyone taken after him then Kiper will crow the next year that he was right. IIRC, he said Huff was a great pick and Whitner should have gone later. I think "reaching" does mean something but that's only if a player will be there next pick. Obviously the FO's know more about that than the fan does, no really it's true, so it has to be a very obvious reach IMO.

[Steely Dan]

Whitner was absolutely a reach at # 8, when the selection was made, and one can see why.

 

There were analysts all over that couldn't figure that pick out, and were basically baffled.

 

Do you believe Whitner would have been there on the Bills next pick? I don't think anyone does. If Huff had fallen one more spot and Buffalo took him Kiper would have been talking about it being a great pick but, Whitner has been the better S. Kiper will piss and moan about what a pathetic pick a guy was at that slot they could've gotten better VALUE out of pick such and such. I've noticed though that on draft days he doesn't go back to prior drafts and say; "I though player such and such was a better VALUE but I was dead wrong." As mentioned above by VJ91 no GM's use the word reach. It's only used by draftniks.