K-9 Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 Nawwww, its not like the Bills coaching staff had anything to do with sufficiently ending any thoughts JP ever had of being a starter in the NFL again. Assuming (yeah, I know) that you had the sarcasm button on while posting the above: What, exactly DID the Bills' staff have to do with "ending any thoughts JP ever had of being a starter in the NFL again?" GO BILLS!!!
Orton's Arm Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 What an enlightened reply. You are comparing JP Losman to Brett Favre? Brett's career was not marked by his ability to land a few bombs and then suck at everything else. And where are these stats you quote? If you want to debate intellectually. post some facts, don't spew inanities like a caveman. Here is a summary of some key numbers based on Yahoo sports: Brett Favre Seasons: 18 Games: 273 Career QB rating: 85.4 Completion Pct : 61.4 YPG: 238.6 Y/A: 7.0 TD: 464 Int: 310 Fumbles Lost: 56 For situations requiring passes of 11+ yards Att: 42 Comp: 62 Yards: 473 Completion Pct: 67.7 Y/A: 7.63 JP Losman Seasons: 5 Games: 42 Career QB rating: 75.6 Completion Pct: 59.3 YPG: 147.9 Y/A: 6.6 TD: 33 Int: 34 Fumbles Lost: 17 For situations requiring passes of 11+ yards Att: 11 Comp: 19 Completon Pct: 57.9 Y/A: 9.10 So I will give you that in long pass situations (11+yards) JP does get a higher Y/A. But then again JP completes a significantly lower percentage of his passes compared to Brett on such attempts (57% compared to 68%). Also look at things like TD to Int ratio as well as fumbles lost / game. Brett threw 1.5 TDs for every interception while JP threw 0.97. Thats a huge disparity. On fumbles lost / game, Brett has a ratio of .20 while JP has a ratio of .40? Another large gap. These are the prime reasons why JP is considered a lousy QB by a lot of folks. In summary, JP looks really bad in the major categories compared to Brett. And Brett' stats include seasons where he was already past his prime. So in the end, I don't see how JP Losman compares to Brett. And it seems that you lose your argument about periodic bomb landings as Brett had pretty high completion rates overall --even when looking just at the long pass attempts. Please post more often.
bourbonboy Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 What an enlightened reply. You are comparing JP Losman to Brett Favre? Brett's career was not marked by his ability to land a few bombs and then suck at everything else. And where are these stats you quote? If you want to debate intellectually. post some facts, don't spew inanities like a caveman. Here is a summary of some key numbers based on Yahoo sports: Brett Favre Seasons: 18 Games: 273 Career QB rating: 85.4 Completion Pct : 61.4 YPG: 238.6 Y/A: 7.0 TD: 464 Int: 310 Fumbles Lost: 56 For situations requiring passes of 11+ yards Att: 42 Comp: 62 Yards: 473 Completion Pct: 67.7 Y/A: 7.63 JP Losman Seasons: 5 Games: 42 Career QB rating: 75.6 Completion Pct: 59.3 YPG: 147.9 Y/A: 6.6 TD: 33 Int: 34 Fumbles Lost: 17 For situations requiring passes of 11+ yards Att: 11 Comp: 19 Completon Pct: 57.9 Y/A: 9.10 So I will give you that in long pass situations (11+yards) JP does get a higher Y/A. But then again JP completes a significantly lower percentage of his passes compared to Brett on such attempts (57% compared to 68%). Also look at things like TD to Int ratio as well as fumbles lost / game. Brett threw 1.5 TDs for every interception while JP threw 0.97. Thats a huge disparity. On fumbles lost / game, Brett has a ratio of .20 while JP has a ratio of .40? Another large gap. These are the prime reasons why JP is considered a lousy QB by a lot of folks. In summary, JP looks really bad in the major categories compared to Brett. And Brett' stats include seasons where he was already past his prime. So in the end, I don't see how JP Losman compares to Brett. And it seems that you lose your argument about periodic bomb landings as Brett had pretty high completion rates overall --even when looking just at the long pass attempts. Nice analysis, and I'm not disagreeing with your conclusions - you can't compare JP to Brett - but I think that your 11+ yard stats are for 2008 only.....and I'm not sure where you could get this data easily, but looking at all pass completions of 20+ yards, under all situations (not just when needing 11+ yds) might be more appropriate (?) and would be interesting to see.
prissythecat Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 Nice analysis, and I'm not disagreeing with your conclusions - you can't compare JP to Brett - but I think that your 11+ yard stats are for 2008 only.....and I'm not sure where you could get this data easily, but looking at all pass completions of 20+ yards, under all situations (not just when needing 11+ yds) might be more appropriate (?) and would be interesting to see. Thanks. Yes. It looks like the situational stat page where I got the long yardage attempt data defaults to the 2008 season. I haven't been able to find any stat source where good bomb figures are provided so had to resort to using long passing downs as a proxy for situations where the qb would resort to throwing the big one. At any rate , I think its time to move on on the JP topic like some folks have mentioned. He may indeed still be able to get a second chance (and maybe make something of himself). After all, he is still young and his physical abilities should still be at their peak.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 This i have to disagree withremember after the Jacksonville game 07 Jauron said he would be still starting if he had won that game remember the Dolphins game last year?? remember the Jets game last year?? JP had plenty of chances to improve , hell not even chances years even. All he was good for was the long ball to Lee Evans I will give you he had his moments but even Madden had some things to say about his decision making, poor at best Dont get me wrong I liked JP and even in a different offense would he have done better ?? He could not do it week in and week out and that's what you would want from a first round draft pick But Trent is a better QB and that's why he is starting Being a good QB demands more mental than brawn Joe Montana wasn't the most gifted physical player, but maybe one of the smartest football IQ guys to ever play JP had shown time and time he was to slow in the pocket reading coverages That is why he is gone Yeah I remember that Jax game when JP was told win or else. That was my point. JP had a snowballs chance in Fla of winning that game. I have read on this board that Wins & Losses belong to a team NOT the QB so you tell me why Dick put that on JP UNLESS he was just looking for an excuse to start Trent.
garchat80 Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 Don't forget trading a 1st rounder to the defending SB champs that are in your division for their backup QB (don't get me wrong I was excited at the time but god how stupid does that look now) and hiring Gregg and MM. God, he was horrible. Donahoe was brought in to escape the Cap Hell Butler put this club in, and fill the seats. He did that with his FA signings and wheeling and dealing on draft day..Did it work out? Definitely not.. BUT, that Levy guy did pretty good too.. Not...
The_Philster Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 HIS NAME IS J.P. LOSERMAN. Too many f n years of watching Buffalo lose because of such a joke at qb. He sucks. He still sucks. I hope he gets better for his sake to play but i think he needs to move on without football. His skills are not there. im sorry but it was very difficult to watch the bills with loserman back there. Hard to take you seriously because you have to resort to name-calling. The only loser is the person who behaves without class...JP may have problems as a QB, but has more class than anyone who resorts to childish name-calling he is lazy and has shown no desire to improve in his nfl career. worst qb to ever get 30+ starts. can't take your post remotely seriously...laziness was never an issue with JP. He tried to succeed but failed...and there've been QBs just as bad or worse...a lot of whom didn't even give the fans as much reason to believe in them as JP did Rob Johnson was a far, far superior quarterback to JP Losman. that knock at your door....it's the cops coming to find the crack cocaine that your post provides evidence of In 05 JP was YOYOed in & out of the line up. In 06 he started & unlike Trent, played better at the end of the year. In 07 the offense was changed to suit Trent's strengths which are totally different than JP's & after being injured after 2 losses Trent was made the man. I would NOT call that being given every opportunity. agreed. The mind-boggling thing is how we started off 2007. In 2006, we started off pretty conservative and JP struggled with it. When they opened things up after the Bye week that year, he made noticeable improvements. Then they start off the 2007 campaign with the same crap they knew didn't work? Fairchild sabotaged Losman in early 2007. That being said, he had problems later in the season that were of his own doing and couldn't be placed on Fairchild's incompetence...unless it was a psychological thing.
Fewell733 Posted April 15, 2009 Posted April 15, 2009 Yeah I remember that Jax game when JP was told win or else. That was my point. JP had a snowballs chance in Fla of winning that game. I have read on this board that Wins & Losses belong to a team NOT the QB so you tell me why Dick put that on JP UNLESS he was just looking for an excuse to start Trent. he had all day to throw and still threw it into triple coverage with the game in the balance. It's his fault that he can't read defenses.
Orton's Arm Posted April 16, 2009 Posted April 16, 2009 The only loser is the person who behaves without class. . . . that knock at your door....it's the cops coming to find the crack cocaine that your post provides evidence of I agree with your first statement--that it's important to behave with class. I disagree with your second statement. How classy do you think it is to accuse someone of taking cocaine just because that person doesn't share your opinion of Rob Johnson's merit as a QB versus Losman's? Rob Johnson did some things well. Very well, in fact. IIRC, his quarterback rating was higher than Jim Kelly's. Clearly, that QB rating masks or ignores the things he did badly (like getting rid of the ball on time, sensing and avoiding pressure, and anything else which could possibly be related to taking sacks). But if you gave him plenty of time to throw, and didn't put him in a situation where he'd have to move around in the pocket to avoid pressure, he could really light up a defense. In fact, he'd look much better, under those conditions, than Losman would have. Johnson was a significantly better, more accurate passer, with a better touch on his passes, than Losman. Johnson had all the physical tools you'd want in your QB--good size, good arm strength, good mobility. Johnson's Achilles heel was that he was a sack waiting to happen. Playing behind the Bills' substandard offensive line only made a bad situation worse. But avoiding sacks isn't exactly an area in which Losman shines; although I'll be the first to say that he was less bad in that department than Johnson. Johnson's other problem was that, because of all those sacks and hits he took, he was injured far too often. Losman has also been injured frequently; albeit not as frequently as Johnson. Losman's biggest strengths are his physical attributes and his long bomb. But Johnson was also good at the long bomb--probably better (or at least more accurate) than Losman. And while Johnson's physical attributes weren't quite as good as Losman's, they were close. Losman's biggest advantages over Johnson are that, of the two, he is moderately less bad about avoiding sacks and injuries. But I don't believe that would be enough to balance out the ways in which Johnson was a significantly better quarterback than Losman. Under most circumstances, you'd be significantly better off with Johnson, rather than Losman, lining up under center.
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