Trent Edwards

[bizell]

Are you serious with this? Stanford had 1 3rd TE drafted, a bunch of 6th round o-linemen, and the rest were defensive players. Besides Edwards, 2 of these guys are starters in the NFL.

 

UCLA had a 1st round TE, 2 receivers, and 2 running backs drafted in the same time, including Jones-Drew who is a borderline star player. And this was during a down period for UCLA. If you are arguably that this is similar talent levels at SU and UCLA, you are out of your mind.

 

another interesting tidbit:

 

during jay cutler's tenure @ vanderbilt, they had a total of 4 players drafted into the NFL (including Cutler)... and this is in the SEC.

[dave mcbride]

Of course...my bad. Thanks ganesh.

Actually, if Brady made an accurate throw with 20 seconds to go against the Giants, the Pats would have won. Unbelievably, Moss had raced past the Giants secondary and would have scored an 80 yard TD if Brady hadn't delivered an inaccurate throw. Of course, I'm entirely convinced that the only reason the Pats lost that game was that Brady was hurt. He was gimpy (and in a walking boot all week) and more inaccurate that game than he had been in years. Still, with 20 seconds to go, the Pats had a chance to achieve a stunning victory provided the pass gets delivered.

 

As for Moss not winning a championship, he's not the reason Gary Anderson missed a chip shot that would have put the Vikes in the SB in 1998.

 

Basically, sometimes a birdseye view of stats misses what actually happened on the field.

[C.Biscuit97]

another interesting tidbit:

 

during jay cutler's tenure @ vanderbilt, they had a total of 4 players drafted into the NFL (including Cutler)... and this is in the SEC.

 

 

And still hasn't had a winning season since high school. And I love to hear all the people about how Cutler went to Vandy and could have started at any of the other major programs.

[Alphadawg7]

Oh Magox, you are still dealing in the what if department, huh?

Simple Terms:

1. Quinn- you already admitted to the hype, probably ruling out Edwards.

2. Leak- I'm sorry if you don't like it, but Urban Myers would never go into a season with Edwards as a starter. I'm not saying Leak or even Tebow are better Qbs than Edwards. I'm just saying Edwards is not mobile and would look terrible in that system. FWIW, so would many great Qbs.

3. Henne- Chad Henne holds the Michigan record for yards, tds, and completions. He is one of the best Qbs in the teams history and one of the most popular. It's a stretch to think Edwards would have waltzed in and been more successful than Henne. You deal in alot of assumptions and potential talk, when Edwards comes up. He also has the second most tds in the history of the Big Ten.

4. Ainge- Edwards is a better Qb and I think would have been the starter.

 

Why is this so hard for you? I think he is way better than Leak. I think he is way better than Ainge. I think he is probably better than Henne. I don't know what to expect out of Quinn. The college game is way different, you know that. Why was Tom Brady so up and down in college? I think you also know that High School rankings aren't worth as much as the paper they are written on. They are similar to draft magazines and Mel Kiper. It is not proof that Edwards could have walked onto any campus and demanded a starting job. Be honest with yourself Magox. He wasn't going to start at alot of big time programs.

 

Excellent post Pile...and exactly what I was saying earlier...

[Alphadawg7]

Why are you so out of touch? Trent Edwards would have had a better chance of beating out Tom Brady than Chad Henne. THE COLLEGE GAME IS DIFFERENT THAN THE NFL. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? West Virginia and Florida are big time programs, how do you think Edwards would fair? How about Boston College? Would he have had his highschool rankings in hand, when battling Matt Ryan? What about LSU? You think he would have started four years with Jamarcus Russell there?

Can you say he would have beat out Brian Brohm in Louisville? No you can't. Your high school player ranking don't mean anything, other than he looked good in highschool. Players mature at different rates. Coachs like different players for different reasons. THE GAME IS DIFFERENT.

 

 

The fact that you don't realize the difference between college success and NFL success is classic. Sprinkle in your highschool research and you make the all-time classic list. I can't understand how any of these college greats bust in the NFL and HOFs get drafted late? The NFL just doesn't go as far back in research as you, I guess.

 

Another awesome post...

[Alphadawg7]

Nobody knows if Trent would have started at those programs, or not. Anyone who claims to know for sure, is lying.

 

But, keep in mind Edwards "was ranked as the #1 pro-style quarterback by USA Today in 2001. Rivals rated Edwards as the #2 pro-style quarterback and #20 player overall in its rankings"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Edwards

 

He was probably more highly rated, and sought after than Brady Quinn, coming out of high school.

 

He very well might have started at ANY program he attended.

 

It doesn't mean squat now, of course, but had he started at one of those other schools, he probably would have been drafted in an earlier round. What about that is so hard to understand?

 

Um, simple...he had only 1, just 1, 300 yard game in his entire college career...and thats his only 300 yard game since high school, including the pros. He struggled to beat weak teams, and lost more than he won against weak teams, and got blasted against good teams (college and pros)...at no level of football since high school has he ever been dominant...at no level has he been consistent...at no level has he been healthy...

 

None of that matters in what he may be in the future of the NFL of course...he may be great, and I hope he is and will be rooting for him all year (I think he could take a big step this year with all our weapons). But, the question is not what he will do next year, its what has he done thus far in college or pros (other than get a nice endorsement from Bill Walsh) to suggest he would have been a first round draft pick at another school, especially since he would have had a hard time beating out the other QB's at the 4 schools other than Stanford that recruited him (and probably doesnt IMO).

[PushthePile]

don't you know? since they can't use those excuses that you mentioned regarding defense and etc., now they say Trent can only beat teams with bad defenses! Then of course I shot that one down, and showed them that Cutler was only able to beat teams with bad defenses as well. Then yesterday, someone said, now get ready for this one:

 

Trent Edwards couldn't of started for many of the big College Football Programs

 

I guess it is easier to start as a QB in the NFL then it is for Michigan, UCLA, Tennessee or one of those college football programs.

 

classic

 

where will they go next?

HAHAHAHAHA! Way to dumb down the debate, Magox. You have a way of avoiding subjects that you know leave you in the wrong. It started when someone said that Trent would have had a much more productive career at a big time program. This was said to support the argument that with greater production, he would have achieved a higher draft grade. Their isn't one person here who can argue that point one way or another. It's a hypothetical, situation.

 

I do feel comfortable saying Trent couldn't start on many college teams. Peyton Manning couldn't either. Are you still with us, Magox? COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS DIFFERENT THAN THE NFL. Do you realize that alot of colleges run wild offenses that you don't see in the NFL? Rich Rodriguez and Urban Meyer both wouldn't want a Qb like Trent. Why do you think great college Qbs don't always become great NFL Qbs? Tom Brady sat behind Brian Griese for two years. Then he was constantly battling Drew Henson for the starting job. Which he ultimately won, but not without alot of trouble. So in short, starting positions aren't always determined by high school rankings. Follow?

 

We haven't even scratched the surface Magox. Do you want to get into highly ranked high school players who have to transfer in order to start? Do you want to talk about college backups who struggle, yet find their niche in the NFL? Why does a guy like Joe Flacco go to Deleware? A high school Qb spends alot of time deciding which offense he would fit into. Some coachs don't even look at players that don't fit their scheme.

 

So to say Trent could have started anywhere is just plain stupid. Players develop at different rates and you have no idea how he would stack up against all his peers. Now go back to the corner, before you get spanked again.

[Magox]

HAHAHAHAHA! Way to dumb down the debate, Magox. You have a way of avoiding subjects that you know leave you in the wrong. It started when someone said that Trent would have had a much more productive career at a big time program. This was said to support the argument that with greater production, he would have achieved a higher draft grade. Their isn't one person here who can argue that point one way or another. It's a hypothetical, situation.

 

I do feel comfortable saying Trent couldn't start on many college teams. Peyton Manning couldn't either. Are you still with us, Magox? COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS DIFFERENT THAN THE NFL. Do you realize that alot of colleges run wild offenses that you don't see in the NFL? Rich Rodriguez and Urban Meyer both wouldn't want a Qb like Trent. Why do you think great college Qbs don't always become great NFL Qbs? Tom Brady sat behind Brian Griese for two years. Then he was constantly battling Drew Henson for the starting job. Which he ultimately won, but not without alot of trouble. So in short, starting positions aren't always determined by high school rankings. Follow?

 

We haven't even scratched the surface Magox. Do you want to get into highly ranked high school players who have to transfer in order to start? Do you want to talk about college backups who struggle, yet find their niche in the NFL? Why does ay like Joe Flacco go to Deleware? A high school Qb spends alot of time deciding which offense he would fit into. Some coachs don't even look at players that don't fit their scheme.

 

So to say Trent could have started anywhere is just plain stupid. Players develop at different rates and you have no idea how he would stack up against all his peers. Now go back to the corner, before you get spanked again.

sorry man, like I said, I'm not gonna let you live that one down!

[PushthePile]

sorry man, like I said, I'm not gonna let you live that one down!

Your response = surrender LOL

[Magox]

Your response = surrender LOL

you see, unlike you my friend, I only need to read things once to comprehend them. I don't feel the need to keep repeating myself.

 

however, just for you, since you need to read things a few times before you even come close to understanding what you see, Dean sums it up best:

 

Nobody knows if Trent would have started at those programs, or not. Anyone who claims to know for sure, is lying.

 

But, keep in mind Edwards "was ranked as the #1 pro-style quarterback by USA Today in 2001. Rivals rated Edwards as the #2 pro-style quarterback and #20 player overall in its rankings"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Edwards

 

He was probably more highly rated, and sought after than Brady Quinn, coming out of high school.

 

He very well might have started at ANY program he attended.

 

It doesn't mean squat now, of course, but had he started at one of those other schools, he probably would have been drafted in an earlier round. What about that is so hard to understand?

 

 

 

Hold on: I have to put this up again, it cracks me up every time:

 

Trent Edwards couldn't of started for many of the big College Football Programs

 

 

The crusade continues, now you and Alpha can research his college career. you guyz are too much!

[PushthePile]

you see, unlike you my friend, I only need to read things once to comprehend them. I don't feel the need to keep repeating myself.

 

however, just for you, since you need to read things a few times before you even come close to understanding what you see, Dean sums it up best:

 

Nobody knows if Trent would have started at those programs, or not. Anyone who claims to know for sure, is lying.

 

But, keep in mind Edwards "was ranked as the #1 pro-style quarterback by USA Today in 2001. Rivals rated Edwards as the #2 pro-style quarterback and #20 player overall in its rankings"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Edwards

 

He was probably more highly rated, and sought after than Brady Quinn, coming out of high school.

 

He very well might have started at ANY program he attended.

 

It doesn't mean squat now, of course, but had he started at one of those other schools, he probably would have been drafted in an earlier round. What about that is so hard to understand?

 

 

 

Hold on: I have to put this up again, it cracks me up every time:

 

Trent Edwards couldn't of started for many of the big College Football Programs

 

 

The crusade continues, now you and Alpha can research his college career. you guyz are too much!

Funny Magox, you never seem to answer key questions. How do you think Trent would have done in an Urban Meyer offense? Or a Rich Rodriguez offense? Would he have beaten out Jamarcus Russell at LSU? Was Trent a good enough college player to start at USC? Was he good enough to hold off a Matt Ryan at Boston College? Could Trent Edwards beat out every college Qb in every system? Does it matter to you, that many HOF weren't definitive starters in college? Do you care to engage in a give and take debate? Would you rather just repeat the same high school rankings over and over again? Does it matter that many high ranking high school players struggle? Do you understand that this isn't a reflection on Trent the NFL Qb? Do you know that many many college teams don't run NFL offenses?

 

 

 

I didn't think so. Your answer to an argument you can't win is to dumb it down. Whats more unrealistic? To think Trent couldn't have beat out every college Qb, or to believe he could. You know the answer.

[bizell]

i must interject here:

 

by magox's logic, Trent Edwards was the #2 ranked pro-style QB whereas Matty Ice was the #25 ranked pro-style QB.

 

2 is a better ranking than 25 so Edwards would have started over Ryan.

[Alphadawg7]

Your response = surrender LOL

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

Funny Magox, you never seem to answer key questions. How do you think Trent would have done in an Urban Meyer offense? Or a Rich Rodriguez offense? Would he have beaten out Jamarcus Russell at LSU? Was Trent a good enough college player to start at USC? Was he good enough to hold off a Matt Ryan at Boston College? Could Trent Edwards beat out every college Qb in every system? Does it matter to you, that many HOF weren't definitive starters in college? Do you care to engage in a give and take debate? Would you rather just repeat the same high school rankings over and over again? Does it matter that many high ranking high school players struggle? Do you understand that this isn't a reflection on Trent the NFL Qb? Do you know that many many college teams don't run NFL offenses?

 

 

 

I didn't think so. Your answer to an argument you can't win is to dumb it down. Whats more unrealistic? To think Trent couldn't have beat out every college Qb, or to believe he could. You know the answer.

 

[dave mcbride]

Funny Magox, you never seem to answer key questions. How do you think Trent would have done in an Urban Meyer offense? Or a Rich Rodriguez offense? Would he have beaten out Jamarcus Russell at LSU? Was Trent a good enough college player to start at USC? Was he good enough to hold off a Matt Ryan at Boston College? Could Trent Edwards beat out every college Qb in every system? Does it matter to you, that many HOF weren't definitive starters in college? Do you care to engage in a give and take debate? Would you rather just repeat the same high school rankings over and over again? Does it matter that many high ranking high school players struggle? Do you understand that this isn't a reflection on Trent the NFL Qb? Do you know that many many college teams don't run NFL offenses?

 

 

 

I didn't think so. Your answer to an argument you can't win is to dumb it down. Whats more unrealistic? To think Trent couldn't have beat out every college Qb, or to believe he could. You know the answer.

The thing is, it's not even fair to compare. People go to different schools for different reasons. Even factoring in Stanford's woeful o-line, Edwards would have been a fool to attend LSU, Utah, or even BC and USC. Why? Because he was smart enough to get into Stanford, which is a far, far better school. Moreover, his Stanford degree is more likely to benefit him 20 years from now than one from a standard issue football factory. Moreover, if you're good, the scouts will find you. A lot of those guys you mention couldn't get into Stanford because of grades, which is why the end up at the Florida States and LSUs of the world (no offense intended). If I was a top tier high school QB and I had my pick, Stanford would be at or near the top of the list assuming I had the grades to get in. Stanford obviously isn't a great team, but historically it's been competitive (.500) and plays top tier competition. Players certainly get drafted from there.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thank you Dave for another excellent post. The debate is silly and I can't believe that the combatants are people I respect greatly on this board. I think we're all going stir crazy for the draft.

 

This was a sober and hopefully fitting end to the debate.

[The Dean]

Um, simple...he had only 1, just 1, 300 yard game in his entire college career...and thats his only 300 yard game since high school, including the pros. He struggled to beat weak teams

 

 

First of all, arguing about what he accomplished at Stanford ignores the discussion about he might have done, had he played at a school with a better team...why can't you see that?

 

And to say "he struggled to beat weak teams" suggests you still don't understand football is a TEAM sport.

[Magox]

The thing is, it's not even fair to compare. People go to different schools for different reasons. Even factoring in Stanford's woeful o-line, Edwards would have been a fool to attend LSU, Utah, or even BC and USC. Why? Because he was smart enough to get into Stanford, which is a far, far better school. Moreover, his Stanford degree is more likely to benefit him 20 years from now than one from a standard issue football factory. Moreover, if you're good, the scouts will find you. A lot of those guys you mention couldn't get into Stanford because of grades, which is why the end up at the Florida States and LSUs of the world (no offense intended). If I was a top tier high school QB and I had my pick, Stanford would be at or near the top of the list assuming I had the grades to get in. Stanford obviously isn't a great team, but historically it's been competitive (.500) and plays top tier competition. Players certainly get drafted from there.

Good point! I should of pointed it out earlier, and I do remember reading that Trent had said he had always wanted to go to Stanford. It was his #1 choice from the very beginning, just that he was awestruck from all the offers he had received, He had over a 100 different scholarship offers, and he turned down offers from UCLA, Michigan and Cal to just name a few.

 

I just couldn't resist commenting on what PP had said.

[Alphadawg7]

First of all, arguing about what he accomplished at Stanford ignores the discussion about he might have done, had he played at a school with a better team...why can't you see that?

 

And to say "he struggled to beat weak teams" suggests you still don't understand football is a TEAM sport.

 

When I said that Dean, I was referring specifically to his play on the field...he struggled in many games against weak competition in college...he was rarely impressive in his on field play, and I saw him play live twice against UCLA and it was not memorable to say the least...in fact, at no point during watching those games (and I dont even like UCLA) did I stop and think he would be a pro QB...and I assure you that I fully understand that football is a team sport and have argued that very point on these boards several times. I 100% agree football is a team sport...

 

My only point was simple...what has he done to warrant the proclamation that was made in this thread, and since argued, that he would be a 1st round QB at a different school or that he would have even started?

[PushthePile]

First of all, arguing about what he accomplished at Stanford ignores the discussion about he might have done, had he played at a school with a better team...why can't you see that?

 

And to say "he struggled to beat weak teams" suggests you still don't understand football is a TEAM sport.

Trent Edwards could have found great success or great failure, had he attended another school. Who the hell knows? I agree with Dave, that he most likely chose Stanford because of superior academics. Which is refreshing. My only problem with any of the opinions in this thread have to do with, Trent being able to play anywhere he wanted. Magox seems to think that a player gets handed a starting job because of his high school ranking. This is foolish. High School rankings are like college rankings. They mean nothing until you prove it at the next level. Obviously in college, the schemes are dramatically different than the NFL as well. That's why Tebow will go down as one of the best Qbs in college history, and Tom Brady would struggle in Floridas offense.