Trent Edwards

[Alphadawg7]

Trent Edwards could have found great success or great failure, had he attended another school. Who the hell knows? I agree with Dave, that he most likely chose Stanford because of superior academics. Which is refreshing. My only problem with any of the opinions in this thread have to do with, Trent being able to play anywhere he wanted. Magox seems to think that a player gets handed a starting job because of his high school ranking. This is foolish. High School rankings are like college rankings. They mean nothing until you prove it at the next level. Obviously in college, the schemes are dramatically different than the NFL as well. That's why Tebow will go down as one of the best Qbs in college history, and Tom Brady would struggle in Floridas offense.

 

Your wasting your time...Magox thinks Edwards is god like and has been at every level...you can not talk logically with him as logic seems to confuse him so much that he forgets to respond to it...

[Magox]

Trent Edwards could have found great success or great failure, had he attended another school. Who the hell knows? I agree with Dave, that he most likely chose Stanford because of superior academics. Which is refreshing. My only problem with any of the opinions in this thread have to do with, Trent being able to play anywhere he wanted. Magox seems to think that a player gets handed a starting job because of his high school ranking. This is foolish. High School rankings are like college rankings. They mean nothing until you prove it at the next level. Obviously in college, the schemes are dramatically different than the NFL as well. That's why Tebow will go down as one of the best Qbs in college history, and Tom Brady would struggle in Floridas offense.

That's not what I said. Now you are putting words in my mouth.

 

You said that he couldn't play for a lot of the major college football programs. Classic! That's when I brought up the high school rankings to show you how he was viewed nationally. But you didn't seem to get the gist of that. The fact that you still mention high school rankings not correlating to success, still shows that you never understood what it was that I was saying. He had over 100 scholarship offers, he was a nationally recognized blue chip Qb prospect. Thats why he got offers to UCLA, Michigan, Cal and many others, So of course, when you made that statement, I couldn't resist mocking it. No offense, it was just funny. Obviously there are some programs that didn't recruit him because of style's and etc. but instead he went to one of the finest academic institutions in the nation, that plays in a conference that knows a thing or two about football.

 

He got a degree from Stanford and is starting QB in the NFL.

 

I would say that he made the right choice.

[PushthePile]

That's not what I said. Now you are putting words in my mouth.

 

You said that he couldn't play for a lot of the major college football programs. Classic! That's when I brought up the high school rankings to show you how he was viewed nationally. But you didn't seem to get the gist of that. The fact that you still mention high school rankings not correlating to success, still shows that you never understood what it was that I was saying. He had over 100 scholarship offers, he was a nationally recognized blue chip Qb prospect. Thats why he got offers to UCLA, Michigan, Cal and many others, So of course, when you made that statement, I couldn't resist mocking it. No offense, it was just funny. Obviously there are some programs that didn't recruit him because of style's and etc. but instead he went to one of the finest academic institutions in the nation, that plays in a conference that knows a thing or two about football.

 

He got a degree from Stanford and is starting QB in the NFL.

 

I would say that he made the right choice.

The fact that you think recruited by, means come here and start, is funny. You just seem a little lacking in understanding how college programs recruit and fill rosters. No biggie. I know alot of Bills fans who don't follow college athletics. Either way I think we are both on the same page when it comes to Trent. He deserves to be the starter but needs to show alot of improvement in order to retain that position. How do you think his high school rankings should effect the amount of time he gets developing at the NFL level?

[The Dean]

Trent Edwards could have found great success or great failure, had he attended another school.

 

BINGO!

 

That's my point. Arguing Trent "was what he was" and would have been drafted where he was drafted, no matter where he went to college, completely overlooks the complexities that go the entire process.

 

I was never arguing that Trent would have gone in the first round had he attended University X, I simply was pointing out, you can't say he wouldn't have.

 

 

I agree with Dave, that he most likely chose Stanford because of superior academics. Which is refreshing.

 

I agree 100%. It is marginally tangential to the discussion at hand, but I think it is a good point.

 

 

My only problem with any of the opinions in this thread have to do with, Trent being able to play anywhere he wanted. Magox seems to think that a player gets handed a starting job because of his high school ranking. This is foolish. High School rankings are like college rankings. They mean nothing until you prove it at the next level. Obviously in college, the schemes are dramatically different than the NFL as well. That's why Tebow will go down as one of the best Qbs in college history, and Tom Brady would struggle in Floridas offense.

 

I hear what you are saying, but I think that is also a little overly simplistic. This clarification will also lack the complexity of the real-life situations, but I am attempting to show some of the various complexities for Alphadog, and others. Let's start with the Florida example:

 

Obviously Florida thought highly of Edwards, and believed he might be able to handle their system, as they recruited him to play QB for the Gators. I'm not sure how they thought he would handle the running aspect of their offense, but maybe Zook (or whoever was there when Trent was a Sr in high school) thought he could mold Trent into a the kind of QB he wanted, or was willing to make a few compromises in the offense to get one of the highest rated QBs coming out, that year.

 

Let's assume Trent goes to Florida in 2002. Does Chris Leak go to Florida? Perhaps he chooses another school, as Edwards looks like the future of Florida QBs, for a few years. (Something like this could have happened with any of the schools Trent choose.) Let's say he does become Florida's starting QB. By 2006 he has a pretty serious offensive line in front of him, and he's throwing to a bevy of fast, talented receivers, including Percy Harvin (who did get injured that year, I think).

 

OR, when Urban Meyer comes, does he sit Edwards the hell down, because he obviously isn't going to take the hits a Leak (or now Tebow) takes at that position. So it's possible that Trent could have been a QB who put up big numbers there...because all QBs put up big numbers there. More likely he becomes an afterthought. Either way, his draft status probably isn't helped all that much, as Florida QBs have a poor track record as NFL QBs.

 

Had he gone to Notre Dame, the same kind of situation applies. There's a chance that Quinn goes somewhere else, as he wasn't as highly regarded as Edwards coming out of college...particularly for teams with pro-style offenses. There is a chance he thrives under Weiss and becomes a first round pick, as he has the national spotlight of playing for ND.

 

You can play the same game with Michigan and Tennessee.

[The Dean]

When I said that Dean, I was referring specifically to his play on the field...he struggled in many games against weak competition in college...he was rarely impressive in his on field play, and I saw him play live twice against UCLA and it was not memorable to say the least...in fact, at no point during watching those games (and I dont even like UCLA) did I stop and think he would be a pro QB...and I assure you that I fully understand that football is a team sport and have argued that very point on these boards several times. I 100% agree football is a team sport...

 

My only point was simple...what has he done to warrant the proclamation that was made in this thread, and since argued, that he would be a 1st round QB at a different school or that he would have even started?

 

 

I know by your posts on other topics, you know more about football than you demonstrate in this conversation. Trent played behind a joke of an offensive line, with pedestrian receivers, on a terrible team. He was constantly playing from behind, and was almost always facing a huge rush.

 

I know you don't believe QB play is totally independent from the rest of the team, and that it can be judged by watching two games against the same opponent.

 

I don't think you can argue that he WOULD have been a 1st round pick, had he attended another school, nor do I believe you can argue that he WOULDN'T have. One can certainly imagine a scenario where, with a different college team, he would have been a hotter NFL commodity. But nobody knows for sure.

[PushthePile]

BINGO!

 

That's my point. Arguing Trent "was what he was" and would have been drafted where he was drafted, no matter where he went to college, completely overlooks the complexities that go the entire process.

 

I was never arguing that Trent would have gone in the first round had he attended University X, I simply was pointing out, you can't say he wouldn't have.

 

 

 

 

I agree 100%. It is marginally tangential to the discussion at hand, but I think it is a good point.

 

 

 

 

I hear what you are saying, but I think that is also a little overly simplistic. This clarification will also lack the complexity of the real-life situations, but I am attempting to show some of the various complexities for Alphadog, and others. Let's start with the Florida example:

 

Obviously Florida thought highly of Edwards, and believed he might be able to handle their system, as they recruited him to play QB for the Gators. I'm not sure how they thought he would handle the running aspect of their offense, but maybe Zook (or whoever was there when Trent was a Sr in high school) thought he could mold Trent into a the kind of QB he wanted, or was willing to make a few compromises in the offense to get one of the highest rated QBs coming out, that year.

 

Let's assume Trent goes to Florida in 2002. Does Chris Leak go to Florida? Perhaps he chooses another school, as Edwards looks like the future of Florida QBs, for a few years. (Something like this could have happened with any of the schools Trent choose.) Let's say he does become Florida's starting QB. By 2006 he has a pretty serious offensive line in front of him, and he's throwing to a bevy of fast, talented receivers, including Percy Harvin (who did get injured that year, I think).

 

OR, when Urban Meyer comes, does he sit Edwards the hell down, because he obviously isn't going to take the hits a Leak (or now Tebow) takes at that position. So it's possible that Trent could have been a QB who put up big numbers there...because all QBs put up big numbers there. More likely he becomes an afterthought. Either way, his draft status probably isn't helped all that much, as Florida QBs have a poor track record as NFL QBs.

 

Had he gone to Notre Dame, the same kind of situation applies. There's a chance that Quinn goes somewhere else, as he wasn't as highly regarded as Edwards coming out of college...particularly for teams with pro-style offenses. There is a chance he thrives under Weiss and becomes a first round pick, as he has the national spotlight of playing for ND.

 

You can play the same game with Michigan and Tennessee.

Dean you bring up great points in this post. Had Edwards signed with one of the elite programs, it would be very likely another blue chipper doesn't sign there. In reality one signing effects many signings. You mentioned in another thread that different teams value players differently. I thought that was a great point, and one in which I'm guilty of overlooking at times (cutler). It's fair to say that many of these college programs value different high school players differently.

 

Many of these colleges heavily recruit many players at the same position. It's an attempt to gain as much talent as possible. USC second stringers are better than most other team's starters. It's impossible to know where these teams had Edwards on their lists. All we can say is that Edwards generated alot of interest. It's unlikely he was the top choice at every location though. I do believe that Edwards would have looked better in many other situations. I also believe he would have had to transfer in others.

[The Dean]

Dean you bring up great points in this post. Had Edwards signed with one of the elite programs, it would be very likely another blue chipper doesn't sign there. In reality one signing effects many signings. You mentioned in another thread that different teams value players differently. I thought that was a great point, and one in which I'm guilty of overlooking at times (cutler). It's fair to say that many of these college programs value different high school players differently.

 

Many of these colleges heavily recruit many players at the same position. It's an attempt to gain as much talent as possible. USC second stringers are better than most other team's starters. It's impossible to know where these teams had Edwards on their lists. All we can say is that Edwards generated alot of interest. It's unlikely he was the top choice at every location though. I do believe that Edwards would have looked better in many other situations. I also believe he would have had to transfer in others.

 

 

Agreed. All great points. As I mentioned, my analysis was oversimplified, too.

[Hanoverbills]

Your wasting your time...Magox thinks Edwards is god like and has been at every level...you can not talk logically with him as logic seems to confuse him so much that he forgets to respond to it...

Doesn't matter what Magox thinks, because after Dick gets fired the next coach will want a differant QB. It seems to happen everytime a new coach comes in. Then we will hear jokes about Edwards playing Canadian fooball or all those same jokes we hear about Losman know.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Wow, all these people whose opinions I respect slandering each other. Pretty sad that we all cheer for the same team. Well at least one of the combatants has left (nearly 4 hours ago) to take the higher road.

[PushthePile]

Wow, all these people whose opinions I respect slandering each other. Pretty sad that we all cheer for the same team. Well at least one of the combatants has left (nearly 4 hours ago) to take the higher road.

Don't worry San Jose that combatant will be back, and firing on all cylinders. The Qb topic never dies.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Don't worry San Jose that combatant will be back, and firing on all cylinders. The Qb topic never dies.

Okay but you don't have to wag your finger in my face. You don't scare me...

[Hanoverbills]

See, here's the problem I have with the "then they closed up the offense" argument: why would they DO that? Do you honestly think the same OC (Fairchild) who opened up the SAME offense in the second half of '06 and saw the SAME success we all saw, would DELIBERATELY change it BACK before the '07 season? Why would a coach DO that to his promising "named" STARTING QB going into the season? The answer: he didn't. In a nutshell, that OPENED offense everbody alludes to (going deep to Evans), was taken away by opposing DCs. Throw in the fact we didn't have enough complimentary offensive weapons and it was (and STILL is until proven otherwise) VERY easy for teams to stack the LOS, man-over Evans, send pressure and DARE Losman to beat them with another option. JP failed miserably. And assuming that Fairchild/Jauron really handcuffed him when it came to audibles, it's STILL on the QB to say "F-that" if he reads another option and makes plays. Sure the coaches aren't pleased at first but when a QB consistently PROVES he can do it, trust me, they don't mind. EVERY HC, OC, or assistant coach I've ever talked to, the ego-maniacs notwithstanding, WANTS his QB to take the reigns completely. But a QB, especially young ones, have to prove they're up to the task. JP didn't.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Same with Edwards, maybe after our 5 and 1 start, teams figured out Edwards .Thats why he sucked so bad after that. Then thats when your coach is suspose to make adjustments in the gameplain to help the QB. I quest Edwards forgot to say ''F-that".

[C.Biscuit97]

Doesn't matter what Magox thinks, because after Dick gets fired the next coach will want a differant QB. It seems to happen everytime a new coach comes in. Then we will hear jokes about Edwards playing Canadian fooball or all those same jokes we hear about Losman know.

 

 

At very worst, Edwards will have a long future in this league as a backup QB. Teams like smart Qbs that can manage games well that can come in a tough spot and not rock the boat too much. Edwards would fit this mold to a t. Guys like Losman and Grossman, who do have 1st round talent but aren't very consistent, will find it tougher to find a backup jobs.

 

Edwards IMO doesn't take anything off the table. Losman/ Grossman may be able to in theory put more on the table; however, they are also more likely to kock everything off and potentially break the table.

[Hanoverbills]

At very worst, Edwards will have a long future in this league as a backup QB. Teams like smart Qbs that can manage games well that can come in a tough spot and not rock the boat too much. Edwards would fit this mold to a t. Guys like Losman and Grossman, who do have 1st round talent but aren't very consistent, will find it tougher to find a backup jobs.

 

Edwards IMO doesn't take anything off the table. Losman/ Grossman may be able to in theory put more on the table; however, they are also more likely to kock everything off and potentially break the table.

I quest your right , look at our backup QB that we sign this year. Collins with the Redskins.

[pBills]

Same with Edwards, maybe after our 5 and 1 start, teams figured out Edwards .Thats why he sucked so bad after that. Then thats when your coach is suspose to make adjustments in the gameplain to help the QB. I quest Edwards forgot to say ''F-that".

 

 

I don't believe that it was a matter of teams figuring out Edwards. I think it was teams figuring out our weak offense. Let's face it... we ran the same plays over and over again.

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't believe that it was a matter of teams figuring out Edwards. I think it was teams figuring out our weak offense. Let's face it... we ran the same plays over and over again.

 

 

Let's be honest here. I think anyone on this board could figure out how to stop the Bills. Put your best corner on Lee and cheat a safety to his side. Bring your other safety in the box for the run game. Man up on every one else. Let Royal attempt to catch the ball so he will fumble it. No very difficult to stop.

 

And for as much as people wanna talk about TO being a PR move, you simply can't double Lee any more or bring a safety down in the box. Assuming the o-line is taken care of (a big if), this is the season to see what Edwards can do. He will never be in better shape weapons-wise.

[pBills]

Let's be honest here. I think anyone on this board could figure out how to stop the Bills. Put your best corner on Lee and cheat a safety to his side. Bring your other safety in the box for the run game. Man up on every one else. Let Royal attempt to catch the ball so he will fumble it. No very difficult to stop.

 

And for as much as people wanna talk about TO being a PR move, you simply can't double Lee any more or bring a safety down in the box. Assuming the o-line is taken care of (a big if), this is the season to see what Edwards can do. He will never be in better shape weapons-wise.

 

 

 

This is true. He will have two great WR's and hopefully I good TE as well. Just need to make sure he has the time to throw the ball.

[Guest dog14787]

The fact that you think recruited by, means come here and start, is funny. You just seem a little lacking in understanding how college programs recruit and fill rosters. No biggie. I know alot of Bills fans who don't follow college athletics. Either way I think we are both on the same page when it comes to Trent. He deserves to be the starter but needs to show alot of improvement in order to retain that position. How do you think his high school rankings should effect the amount of time he gets developing at the NFL level?

 

By allot of improvement you mean win more ball games, something a QB doesn't do because its a team sport, right?

 

Trent Edwards already has the best completion percentage in the league and his QB rating is over 85. TE was able to accomplish this with a below average supporting cast.

 

If what everyone says is true, strengthen TE's supporting cast and you will win more ball games because TE is already doing his job.

 

Its time for the Organization to do theirs.

 

Any improvement on TE's part is icing on the cake.