The Rev.Mattb74 ESQ. Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 1. Raji will never be available at pick 11. 2. Ayers is the most complete all-around DE, but what that means is that he is not an exceptional pass-rusher, and would be a Kelsay-Denney steady every-down type. And a definite reach at #11, IMHO. We already have those types, so why get another, even if he is an upgrade? Given our current roster, it makes more sense to get a pure pass-rusher and rotate him in.... 3. Brown is arguably the 2nd best pass rushing DE in the draft (after Orakpo, who will be long gone) - I've seen him falling to #11 in quite a few mock drafts, so it is possible, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up, and watch him get picked at #10. In reality, more than likely he is not there at #11. 4. If Brown is not there, Maybin is growing on me, and would not be a bad pick (unless we need to go with a LT because the Peters experiment ends with a trade). 1. I totally agree with, if Raji or Rak is there you take them no questions asked. 2. This team needs a total makeover, including coaching staff. If Ayers is the best you take him regardless of everything else. It is not like we are trying to get that one postion of need to put us over the top. 3. While I did not watch him play this year and can only go on what I have read and what I know about players coming from certain systems. Although past performance(guys like McDougle and Bunkley) doesnt always mean that future picks will be a bust it certainly gives reason to pause. 4.While I cant speak about florida players, it is easy for me to speak on Penn State Players. Jo Pa is good at getting his guys in positions to make plays, thus Penn State players are always hyped, then fizzle in the NFL. More of a kudos to Paterno then putting down their talent, they dont translate well(long gone are the days of LBU). The big Ten is more of a throwback conference that have not kept up with the times, that is why they dont play well out of conference. The exception being Buckeye DB's are usually physical which I like(not that my opinion matters), and Michigan O-lineman, (and to smaller degree Iowa Linemen) can run block. Buyer beware though with Beanie Wells, Maybin, Robiskie(although I have hope for Robiske) and any other Big Ten highly thought of players. These are just my two cents take them with a grain of salt, but for what its worth in my humble opinion.
The Rev.Mattb74 ESQ. Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Agreed, Ayers may be the best choice for our system. I like Ayers. 15.5 tackles for loss last year is pretty good output playing on a team with as little as talent as that, going up against the competion they play against. One year starter to me means very little as he may be a young man that has grown into his potential. Tennesee was so bad that last year teams could get a lead then run the clock down on them avoiding the chance to give up sacks and plays against a very good D-linemen, and yes to me the Senior Bowl means alot.
thewildrabbit Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 It's hard to take that serious considering they state that he is a one year starter. I would say that he didn't do his homework. If he didn't even know that he started more than 1 year, then I find it hard to believe that he can really come to that conclusion or any conclusion for that matter. You would think they would get that right before they would say anything. Funny how this view of him says he is able to defeat bigger blockers with his active long arms, which sort of contradicts Casserly's view. You make it seem like Charles Davis was skeptical of Brown where in reality he was adamant that he is a top notch prospect. Opinions opinions, they are sort of like azzholes, every one's got one. First of all let me correct YOU, in 08 he started LEFT DE and in 07 he started RIGHT DE,when someone says he is a one year starter at that position, it was the correct statement as he started at LEFT DE for one year. Casserly stated he wouldn't even take the guy!!! This is the same person who chose Mario Williams in 06 and was thought to be a fool for passing on Vince Evans and Reggie Bush, who is laughing now. Charles Davis likes him but stated he will get better "IF" he gets the right coaching, jeez you wanna spend millions on a guy who might work out IF he gets the right coaching? As it stands right now it looks like he would be valuable as a 3rd down pass rusher,that's it.
thewildrabbit Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Compares To: JOHN ABRAHAM, Atlanta -- Brown is not as big as Abraham, unless a Florida State coach handles the measurements (school listed him close to three inches taller than he actually is), but both are elite pass rushers in an age where teams put great emphasis on explosive edge rushers wreaking havoc in the backfield. Some compare Brown to Dallas' DeMarcus Ware, but he does not have the fluid hips to drop back in pass coverage, making it a potential unwise move to plant him in the linebacking unit. History says that Florida State defensive ends rarely excel in the pros, but if used in the right system like Indianapolis utilizes with Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis, Brown could be the one to break the Seminoles' jinx. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/558835 That last statement is what Charles Davis was talking about IMO
In space no one can hear Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 First of all let me correct YOU, in 08 he started LEFT DE and in 07 he started RIGHT DE,when someone says he is a one year starter at that position, it was the correct statement as he started at LEFT DE for one year. Casserly stated he wouldn't even take the guy!!! This is the same person who chose Mario Williams in 06 and was thought to be a fool for passing on Vince Evans and Reggie Bush, who is laughing now. Charles Davis likes him but stated he will get better "IF" he gets the right coaching, jeez you wanna spend millions on a guy who might work out IF he gets the right coaching? As it stands right now it looks like he would be valuable as a 3rd down pass rusher,that's it. Let's not get all excited about Casserly's opinion. Mario Williams was a a very good choice, but while with the Redskins he picked Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Desmond Carter in the top 5 of the first round! Each was a huge bust. Charles Davis? Come on, he's useless.
thewildrabbit Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Let's not get all excited about Casserly's opinion. Mario Williams was a a very good choice, but while with the Redskins he picked Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Desmond Carter in the top 5 of the first round! Each was a huge bust. Charles Davis? Come on, he's useless. From a Redskin Fan: Now, to be fair to Casserly, Casserly did want to take Trent Dilfer and Joey Galloway in the '94 and '95 drafts, rather than Shuler and Westbrook, but Norv Turner overruled Casserly. I'd have to think that the Redskins owner also has his hand in personnel decisions, although perhaps not as much as Jerry Jones. If you watch the NFL network year round or NBC during football season you would know that Casserly's opinion is very highly regarded. The only thing I tune into that pregame show for is to hear what Cassely has to say each week. Charlie Casserly,Mike Mayock and Charles Davis know a hella lot more about college football players then Mel Kiper,Tod McShay and the flock of other bozo's who most have never even heard of,and that have websites touting their mock drafts. I'd rather trust someones opinion that I know has an actual football history rather then some unknown poster who puts up a draft site.
Magox Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 First of all let me correct YOU, in 08 he started LEFT DE and in 07 he started RIGHT DE,when someone says he is a one year starter at that position, it was the correct statement as he started at LEFT DE for one year. Casserly stated he wouldn't even take the guy!!! This is the same person who chose Mario Williams in 06 and was thought to be a fool for passing on Vince Evans and Reggie Bush, who is laughing now. Charles Davis likes him but stated he will get better "IF" he gets the right coaching, jeez you wanna spend millions on a guy who might work out IF he gets the right coaching? As it stands right now it looks like he would be valuable as a 3rd down pass rusher,that's it. hold on a sec wildrabbit. One year starter means 1 year starting. Now we may be arguing over semantics, but you said one year starter, not one year starter at RDE or LDE, so I WAS CORRECT. Also just because casserlie has an opinion about him doesn't make it correct. Come on now wildrabbit, you know better than that. I just showed 3 others that contraticted what he said. So, as I said earlier, everyone has got an opinion and we won't know until he has a year or so under is belt in the pro's.
Magox Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 From a Redskin Fan: Now, to be fair to Casserly, Casserly did want to take Trent Dilfer and Joey Galloway in the '94 and '95 drafts, rather than Shuler and Westbrook, but Norv Turner overruled Casserly. I'd have to think that the Redskins owner also has his hand in personnel decisions, although perhaps not as much as Jerry Jones. If you watch the NFL network year round or NBC during football season you would know that Casserly's opinion is very highly regarded. The only thing I tune into that pregame show for is to hear what Cassely has to say each week. Charlie Casserly,Mike Mayock and Charles Davis know a hella lot more about college football players then Mel Kiper,Tod McShay and the flock of other bozo's who most have never even heard of,and that have websites touting their mock drafts. I'd rather trust someones opinion that I know has an actual football history rather then some unknown poster who puts up a draft site. wow! from a redskins fan!! did you really just post that? you got to be kidding me.
Solomon Grundy Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 From a Redskin Fan: Now, to be fair to Casserly, Casserly did want to take Trent Dilfer and Joey Galloway in the '94 and '95 drafts, rather than Shuler and Westbrook, but Norv Turner overruled Casserly. I'd have to think that the Redskins owner also has his hand in personnel decisions, although perhaps not as much as Jerry Jones. If you watch the NFL network year round or NBC during football season you would know that Casserly's opinion is very highly regarded. The only thing I tune into that pregame show for is to hear what Cassely has to say each week. Charlie Casserly,Mike Mayock and Charles Davis know a hella lot more about college football players then Mel Kiper,Tod McShay and the flock of other bozo's who most have never even heard of,and that have websites touting their mock drafts. I'd rather trust someones opinion that I know has an actual football history rather then some unknown poster who puts up a draft site. Wild Rabbit when did Norv Turner become the GM/boss and Casserly start coaching. Look everybody, the Bills are looking for a pass rusher not an every down DE. The Bills problem was not generating enough pass rush and Everette Brown is the best pass rusher in the draft! This is why he is a no brainer pick at 11. We want him to cause chaos on passing downs, that's it.
Leonidas Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 If you paid attention to college football this year you would have known that Clemson's offensive line was notriously bad. Going into the season their Oline was looked at as their achillies heal and went on to prove it throughout the year. And Clemson was not very good this year but It sounds like you don't pay attention to college football. "I think you have to look at the offensive line. Only one full-time starter - junior center Thomas Austin - returns from 2007. Beyond him, the line has nine starts of experience, seven from junior right guard Barry Humphries. Junior left guard Jamarcus Grant will be making his first career start and has only 86 snaps in his first two seasons. Can they protect Cullen Harper and open up holes for James Davis and C.J. Spiller? We'll see. (Quote from article below in August) http://blog.al.com/bamabeat/2008/08/the_ot...de_clemson.html More Clemson Oline troubles from mid season http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=863509 My point was Brown got his sacks against some very bad teams with BAD OFFENSIVE LINES. gettin snippy are we? I watch plenty of ACC football as I am Carolina Tarheel fan, so Saturday afternoons for me, it is all about ACC football, so I'm sure I watch more of it then you do. You sir, are the king of generalizations. I loved the generalization you made regarding white guys with long hair the other day, remember that one? And Florida State DE's suck because of past performance and the system they play, remember that one too? These are your comments and you have to realize that it is hard to take anyone serious that makes these sort of generalizations. Makes sense? All though Clemson lost 4 starters from the prior season, they still had a better offensive line than your run of the mill college football team. The long hair thing/ stiff hips comment was a cheap shot at Poz and the fans infatuation with him. So the fact that you took that seriously makes you look very dumb. And Yes, you will see a correlation between the FSU DEnds because Mickey Andrews has been the DC since the mid 80's. And if you don't think systems are part of the reason why college players have trouble with transitioning then again, you have no clue about football. Did you read what you wrote, "Just because they lost 4 starters." Stop right there. CLemson was probably THE biggest dissapointment in college this year and their OLINE was the main reason for it. I'm gald that you watch the Tar Heels play every Saturday. The ACC sucks so you're just used to watching sh*tty football. No bias though... you've got anger issues. Hope that works out for ya Dude, you accused me of not having credibility. I put both of your accusations to bed and I called the ACC sh*tty football. If I have an anger issue, you have a sensitivity issue. HEY RAMIUS AND MAGOX, HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES? Just to refresh your memories. "wrote this before about FSU DE's, they have zero responibilities, they line up at 9-11 technique over the most open man and and get upfield. " That review made you feel good didn't it? Now you feel vindicated. Problem is, that you jumped the gun. haha now you look foolish shanahan Let's review what it said shall we: Some believe he is too stiff to be projected to rush linebacker and could not be more than an open-side end in the NFL, where his stock could be adversely affected because many fronts do not feature the position. Last I remember, we weren't planning on using a 3-4 rush LB sort of defense. They are referring to the 3-4 you knew that right? Hmmmm Open-side end. Let's see here. hmmm I guess you forgot that is what we are looking for An open-side end hahahahaha woops jumped the gun HOW DO YOU LIKE DEM APPLES? Thats because it doesn't reflect poorly on Brown in a 4-3 front like the Bills play. Shanahan was so quick to jump the gun to try to prove his point, that he didn't thoroughly comprehend what he read. Why don't you read what I quoted and the context of the quote. Another word for an open sided end is one dimensional. Another quote taken out of context by you Maggy. I would have thought you would have been a little better at reading seeing that you post 17 times a day. Are you two dating???
colin Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 i like this kid, but i like maybin too. i think sackpo looks good, but i worry he isn't sudden enough. to me it comes down to who is going to be the most awesome pass rusher, maybin or brown. maybin is jayson taylor jr, brown is freeney jr. i remember when freeney was said to be a 10-15 pick reach around pick 11, and he just came out and caused a mess to start with.
Deadstroke Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 "I'll believe that when my sh-- turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet." Schobel had 1 sack in 5 games last year before his injury. Barring a complete reversal, he's on the significant downside of his career. Think about it, Leon..., last year early, Schobel was our one and only viable sack threat. Pretty easy to neutralize a guy in those circumstances. Let's see what happens if and when we draft another DE legitamate sack threat. Schobel is not that old and has been a very very and even very good player for us in the past. If he's healthy, he will be good again, McKelvin.
Leonidas Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Here's my problem with Brown. He is so small that to succeed he would need to have tremendous speed to compensate and become Freeney-ish. But he doesn't have that speed. Freeney ran the 40 in 4.38. He uses every bit of that speed and quickness to compensate for only being 6'1" 268 lbs. Brown is listed at 15 lbs. lighter than Freeney, and according to everyone else is not much taller. That combined with him running only a 4.74 at the Combine doesn't really seem to make him a threat at DE in the 4-3. The more I think about it, the more I think Oher would be a good pick at #11 (assuming Peters is gone), then grabbing either an Ayers (who at least went up against the best in the SEC) with the next first round pick or grabbing Pettigrew and then getting a Barwin/Sidbury/M. Johnson (although the highlights I've seen of him don't impress me at all) in the second. We'd still need an OLB and a LG, but I still think those should be attacked in free agency to bolster what will probably be second day picks. Thoughts?
Leonidas Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Think about it, Leon..., last year early, Schobel was our one and only viable sack threat. Pretty easy to neutralize a guy in those circumstances. Let's see what happens if and when we draft another DE legitamate sack threat. Schobel is not that old and has been a very very and even very good player for us in the past. If he's healthy, he will be good again, McKelvin. I want to be wrong on this, I really do. But I don't think I am. Speed rushers die early. Once their speed is gone it's all over. Look at Simeon Rice. He went from being one of the best DE's in the league to not being able to make an NFL roster in what, two years? Over the last two seasons Schobel's had 7.5 sacks in 21 games which is terrible. His 14 sack season was in 2006. We're entering 2009. Will the Lisfranc injury speed him up? I highly doubt it. Schobel is 31. Rice 'died' at 32. I think this pipe dream of "wait until Schobel gets back" is just that - a pipe dream. He'll start in '09, but my money says he's a cap casualty at the end of the year.
bizell Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 freeney ran a 4.38??? that sounds a little crazy. And regarding a DE's speed, I think a better measure of how 'fast' a DE is would be their 10 yard dash time as opposed to their 40.
Leonidas Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 freeney ran a 4.38??? that sounds a little crazy. And regarding a DE's speed, I think a better measure of how 'fast' a DE is would be their 10 yard dash time as opposed to their 40. Oh God, not this argument again. Who was the moron who said the 40 is completely irrelevant for defensive lineman?? Yes, the 10 yard portion of it is most important. No, the entire result should not be completely disregarded. That guy (not you) was a complete !@#$ing moron...
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