Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 I agree about we need a pass rusher but he's got Gaines Adams (of the Bucs) written all over him... I would take Gaines Adams over any Bills end except Schobel.
Steely Dan Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 Thanks. I'm not sure that completely answers my question, but it is a start. I get the big-frame/bulk part. But, as pass rushing DEs aren't usually that big, I still have questions. Reggie White was 6'5" and Bruce Smith is 6'4" Just pointin out.
bizell Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 I agree about we need a pass rusher but he's got Gaines Adams (of the Bucs) written all over him... brown is waaaayyyy stronger than gaines adams was coming out of college. (450+ lb bench press iirc)
Shanahan's Horseshoe Posted April 12, 2009 Posted April 12, 2009 The FSU lineage scares me. He also puffed up his stats against bad Olines. He had 2 sacks against Cattanooga. 3 against Clemson who had a notoriusly bad Oline. Only 3 of his sacks, all in one game (Va Tech), came against ranked teams. I wrote this before about FSU DE's, they have zero responibilities, they line up at 9-11 technique over the most open man and and get upfield. This is why teams run counters all day against the Noles. Very similar to what the Pats did to us two years ago. No thanks, I'd rather have Maybin. He plays with a mean streak and has and unreal first step.
Jamie Nails Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 do you take him if Raji is still on the board?
Stevie Ray Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I can't speak for others but I could care less about his height. I'm fine with his as a situational pass rusher this year and eventually taking over one of the DE spots in the near future. I think long arms are more important than height Dean but if you can get it done without either I'll take technique and production. It is about the arms. The taller you are, the longer your arms would be, normally. For a DE, it is important to be able to get inside of an O lineman's chest and push off, or "punch". Having long arms would typically allow you to get inside and gain that leverage and push the lineman into a particular direction, then make either an inside or outside move, counter to where the lineman was pushed. This was something I had heard some analysts discuss on TV some time ago, NFL Network maybe. I hope I recalled and explained it correctly.
BillsFan74 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Florida State DE's are busts. This has Erik Flowers written all over it. Agreed, Ayers may be the best choice for our system.
The Dean Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 It is about the arms. The taller you are, the longer your arms would be, normally. For a DE, it is important to be able to get inside of an O lineman's chest and push off, or "punch". Having long arms would typically allow you to get inside and gain that leverage and push the lineman into a particular direction, then make either an inside or outside move, counter to where the lineman was pushed. This was something I had heard some analysts discuss on TV some time ago, NFL Network maybe. I hope I recalled and explained it correctly. OK, perhaps another piece to the puzzle
Magox Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 OK, perhaps another piece to the puzzle It is a matter of length Dean. As perverse as that may sound, it enables DE's to shed blocks against taller Tackles, swat passes, swallow up QB's with longer reach and swat balls loose from QB's when blockers are draped on them. Phew! sounds kind of gay, but I think that sums it up best.
The Dean Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 It is a matter of length Dean. As perverse as that may sound, it enables DE's to shed blocks against taller Tackles, swat passes, swallow up QB's with longer reach and swat balls loose from QB's when blockers are draped on them. Phew! sounds kind of gay, but I think that sums it up best. Thanks, that's a nice summary. Dunno that I buy that a guy 6'2" isn't tall enough to do those things, if he has shown he can...but I get the idea...kind of.
Magox Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Thanks, that's a nice summary. Dunno that I buy that a guy 6'2" isn't tall enough to do those things, if he has shown he can...but I get the idea...kind of. I don't buy it either in an absolute sense. There are exceptions, and there are advantages to being shorter, like lower center of gravity and the ability to get underneath blocks. In that video there are a few examples of Brown doing exactly that, getting underneath blocks, plus did you see those nasty spin moves he has? I noticed he is able to spin to the left and right. Guys got some serious moves. I have little doubt that he will be an effective Pass rusher in this league, and I don't worry about his height at all. Also, I don't see him as a tweener, he's got some gurth to him. Man, I just can't get away from the gay connotations
seq004 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 At 6'2" he's a little short for a DE but then that's never hurt Dwight Freeney who's an inch shorter. He's not a good run stopper and might be a situational pass rusher. He would be worth the 11th pick IMO. He can get to the QB in a hurry and that's what this defense needs. I think he'd be worth the pick @11.
Rockinon Posted April 13, 2009 Author Posted April 13, 2009 Yes, he is on the QB very fast and that IS what this team needs. Remember how the Giants beat NE. They just kept serving up different pass rush packages. Sometimes they got burned, but sometimes the did the burning. I think that this who league needs to get after QBs better. It would be the equilizer against the Tom Bradys and Kurt Warners of the league. Don't fall into the trap thinking that theses guys are so good that we need more DBs. You want to challenge these guys then GET IN THEIR FACE!
Leonidas Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Schoebel has been injured. He may bounce back with 8-10 sacks this year. With Brown and a healthy Schoebel.....our Defense would make Brady wet his pants. "I'll believe that when my sh-- turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet." Schobel had 1 sack in 5 games last year before his injury. Barring a complete reversal, he's on the significant downside of his career.
Leonidas Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Agreed, Ayers may be the best choice for our system. Can we have Mike Mayock put to death if we pick Ayers and he's a complete bust? Can that be written into his rookie contract??
bourbonboy Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 1. Raji will never be available at pick 11. 2. Ayers is the most complete all-around DE, but what that means is that he is not an exceptional pass-rusher, and would be a Kelsay-Denney steady every-down type. And a definite reach at #11, IMHO. We already have those types, so why get another, even if he is an upgrade? Given our current roster, it makes more sense to get a pure pass-rusher and rotate him in.... 3. Brown is arguably the 2nd best pass rushing DE in the draft (after Orakpo, who will be long gone) - I've seen him falling to #11 in quite a few mock drafts, so it is possible, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up, and watch him get picked at #10. In reality, more than likely he is not there at #11. 4. If Brown is not there, Maybin is growing on me, and would not be a bad pick (unless we need to go with a LT because the Peters experiment ends with a trade).
Leonidas Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I would take Gaines Adams over any Bills end except Schobel. I would take Gaines Adams over any Bills DE including Schobel. Hands down. Reggie White was 6'5" and Bruce Smith is 6'4" Just pointin out. Dwight Freeney is 6'1".
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 in that draft i would rather see the bills grab Raji instead of Brown...
The Rev.Mattb74 ESQ. Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Agreed, Ayers may be the best choice for our system. I am hoping that we get either Ayers, Cushing or Oher with the first pick. However I get the feeling the Bills will take Maybin, or Brown.
thebandit27 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 1. Raji will never be available at pick 11. 2. Ayers is the most complete all-around DE, but what that means is that he is not an exceptional pass-rusher, and would be a Kelsay-Denney steady every-down type. And a definite reach at #11, IMHO. We already have those types, so why get another, even if he is an upgrade? Given our current roster, it makes more sense to get a pure pass-rusher and rotate him in.... 3. Brown is arguably the 2nd best pass rushing DE in the draft (after Orakpo, who will be long gone) - I've seen him falling to #11 in quite a few mock drafts, so it is possible, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up, and watch him get picked at #10. In reality, more than likely he is not there at #11. 4. If Brown is not there, Maybin is growing on me, and would not be a bad pick (unless we need to go with a LT because the Peters experiment ends with a trade). No offense, but it looks like you and I are on opposite ends of the POV spectrum, bourbon. 1. It's totally possible for Raji to be there at 11. I agree that it'd be a mistake for 10 teams to pass on him, but looking at the variety of needs in the top 10, and as many as 4 OTs, 3 WRs, and 2 QBs going there, Raji could indeed find himself still on the board at 11. 2. I realize that he had limited playing time, but I can't fathom why a guy with Ayers' limited production in college is rated as highly as he is...however, his style of play is as much like Denney's and Kelsay's as Rian Lindell's is like William "The Refrigerator" Perry's. 3. From what I hear, the likelihood of both Orakpo and Brown being available at 11 is getting greater and greater. As I said, there will likely be 4 OTs, at least 2 QBs, and at least 2 WRs in the top 10, with another possible QB and WR each. The math is starting to look right for one or both of them to fall. 4. I have sincere doubts about both Maybin and Brown as NFL pass rushers. I like Brown better because he's been more consistent over a longer period of time, but I absolutely hate FSU's defensive scheme, which does virtually nothing to prepare a DE for NFL style OTs. My personal opinion is that an NFL team would be wise to pass on a highly-rated DE and go with a guy like Larry English if he's around in round 2. He's just as explosive an athlete, had 23 sacks over the course of his Junior and Senior seasons, and is (in my opinion) more NFL ready as a pass rush specialist.
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