Look! Another Peters thread!

[Kelly the Dog]

I find it very amusing that fans actually believe that if Peters would just show up in good faith and work hard, the Bills will negotiate in good faith, and that a deal will be struck that both sides will be happy with. So please answer this question for me...

 

How much is that good faith worth to the Bills in real dollars per year? $500,000? One mil? $1.5 mil?

 

Let's just say that the reports are close to being accurate. That the Bills are offering 8.5 mil and Peters is asking for 11.5 mil per year. PFT said today that Peters is looking for 10 mil per (which is what I think, too).

 

The Bills have said publicly, repeatedly, that Peters needs to show up. The fans seem to agree. But if 8.5 mil is what they are offering for not showing up, for not participating, for not showing good faith, how much more would they be offering if Parker and Peters were playing nice? 9 mil? 9.5? 10?

 

The point is, the showing up part is immaterial, and isn't going to change the Bills final offer one bit. It may be more pleasurable, but it doesn't change a thing. Peters and Parker are not going to agree to anything less than 10 mil a year IMO whether Peters is in camp or not, showing good faith or not. They want him, rightfully IMO, to be paid amongst the top 2-3 LTs in the game, which is 10 mil per year. The Bills, OTOH, want him but don't want to break the bank. They want to get him as cheaply as they can, but knowing it's going to be a huge contract, probably that 10+ mil per year. That's what negotiating is.

 

But IF they are willing to give him 10 mil a year IF he came to camp, they could very likely get this over with today and sign him to a 10 mil a year deal and make everyone happy. IF they are not willing to go over 9-9.5 mil a year, he could be in camp but he is never going to sign the deal anyway because it's a LOT less than he and his agent and the rest of the league think he is worth.

 

The Bills rewarded Evans by signing him to a huge deal (although it took a year and a half of negotiations like Peters is doing) by ultimately offering him what he thought he was worth as well as what his worth was around the league. They came through with a great offer and contract. But if they offered him less than his value, less than making him one of the top paid WR in the game, he wasn't going to sign.

 

I am not applauding Peters for sitting out of camp last year. It was a mistake. I don't think he should sit out this year either. It will be a mistake. I hate holdouts as much as the next guy. But it isn't going to change the Bills ultimate offer very much at all. Probably not one bit.

 

If they offer 10+ mil a year, he probably signs. If they don't, he doesn't. The number the Bills have to offer has to reach the minimum he and his agent have set. In camp or out. Nice guy or not. The rest is theatrics.

[Beerball]

I'm not smart enough to answer all of those questions.

 

What I think I know is:

 

Peters has bungled this badly

Peters did not play to a 10+ mill a year contract in 08

 

 

What I think I think is:

 

The Bills have bungled this badly

Peters can play to a 10+ mill a year contract in 09

The harm that has been done will be quickly forgotten if Peters is signed to an extension and plays to his potential consistently

The harm that has been done will quickly fester if Peters is signed to an extension and does not play to his potential consistently

 

 

What I may think I think is:

Too much damage has been done and both sides have drawn a line in the sand

This stalemate will continue into training camp and the team and player will suffer

09 will be Peters last in Buffalo

[PromoTheRobot]

Hmmm...Evans...Stroud...now hopefully Jackson. So what is your point? What is so hard to see here? I know you love Peters no matter what he does or how poorly he plays because (drum roll, please) HE'S A TWO-TIME PRO BOWLER!!!! But he also is taking a pretty poor attitude toward the Bills, which of course you justify because the Bills are such a inhumane organization they have been cruelly underpaying Peters.

 

Let's look at the timeline, shall we? Peters had no problem with the Bills until 1) he was voted into the Pro Bowl, and 2) he changed agents to Eugene Parker. So that means he wasn't underpaid until the moment he gets voted to the Pro Bowl, which is the end of the 2007 season. Follow me so far?

 

So what is the first thing Peters does? Does he go to the Bills and say "I'm a Pro Bowl LT now. I'd like to be paid like one"? No. He simply disappears. Doesn't show up. Doesn't call his employer. Nothing. All this happens during the off-season after he's voted to the Pro Bowl. So Peters has yet to play one single snap as an "underpaid" LT. He, and I'm sure Eugene Parker decide that Peters is owed money retroactively for his 2007 performance.

 

Now look at the Bills. They give Peters a nice raise in 2006 when he was an RT. He has a Pro Bowl year in 2007. They feel pretty smart because they did what every says they are supposed to do: lock up good young talent early at a reasonable price. Up to then they figure they have a good relationship with Peters, that is until Peters blindsides the team with his major bout of PMS.

 

I don't know about you, Kelly, but if you had a girlfriend, wife, business associate, etc. who's all nice to you one minute then decides you are the scum of the earth the next, you'd be pretty taken aback. And if this person eventually tells you that you suck and that you owe them money, a diamond ring, whatever, you will start to wonder if this person is worth sticking with.

 

And to make matters worse, Peters hurts your team last season by missing all OTA's and training camp, shows up fat and out of shape the day before the season starts, and gives up more sacks than Mike Gandy in his worst year as a Bill....oh, and he gets injured again.

 

Now he comes back wanting to be paid more money than any LT in history. A guy who has shown that he doesn't care about the Bills. A guy who now has a history of being injury-prone. A guy who now has a reputation around the NFL as having a lack of dedication.

 

You would have to be one gullible sap to give into someone like Peters, especially when you could cash him in for high draft picks and rid your team of a locker room cancer. Luckily, most Bills fans, the Bills front office and most NFL oberserves disagree with you, Micky and all the other Peters jock sniffers.

 

Expect Peters to be shipped off in a week or two. Good riddance.

 

PTR

[lets_go_bills]

I think the Bills aren't convinced that once he gets paid this large contract, that he'll continue to dedicate himself to improving, becomming a better player and taping into his unlimited potential and talent.

 

I think that Peters showing up to workout/practice and being with his teammates shows he wants to play football and be good at it, not just have the financial security of a huge contract and then only play when he wants to.

 

All the Bills are asking for is a sign of good faith and in return they'll reward that faith with significant monetary compensation.

[PromoTheRobot]

What I think I think is:

The Bills have bungled this badly

 

I defy you to explain how the Bills bungled any of this. Refer to the timeline in my post. Tell me exactly how long Peters has been an underpaid LT before he decided to hold out? The answer: not one single snap of the ball!!

 

PTR

[Kelly the Dog]

Hmmm...Evans...Stroud...now hopefully Jackson. So what is your point? What is so hard to see here?

Those are good examples. The Bills offered Evans the amount that put him at the top of the league. 9 mil a year. They offered Stroud a contract that put him at the top of the league for a guy like him. 8 mil. The same as Rogers and Jenkins. They are not offering Peters a contract that puts him at the top of the league. 10 mil. If they did, he would sign. That is my point.

Let's look at the timeline, shall we? Peters had no problem with the Bills until 1) he was voted into the Pro Bowl, and 2) he changed agents to Eugene Parker. So that means he wasn't underpaid until the moment he gets voted to the Pro Bowl, which is the end of the 2007 season. Follow me so far?

The timeline is actually that the Bills told Peters that they weren't going to renegotiate 2008 at all. But that he should come in and they would start talks about 2009. Which is now. That is why he sat out to begin with.

Expect Peters to be shipped off in a week or two. Good riddance.

Actually, I expect the Bills to ultimately sign him to a 10+ mil a year contract. It could be before the draft and it could be after and it could very well get ugly first. And again, I am not saying everything he does is great. I don't think he should be holding out.

[PromoTheRobot]

If they offer 10+ mil a year, he probably signs. If they don't, he doesn't. The number the Bills have to offer has to reach the minimum he and his agent have set. In camp or out. Nice guy or not. The rest is theatrics.

Parker has alread said he wants Peters to get a deal above Jake Long's $11.5/yr. $10M/yr. get you a big fat F U.

 

PTR

[Kelly the Dog]

Parker has alread said he wants Peters to get a deal above Jake Long's $11.5/yr. $10M/yr. get you a big fat F U.

 

PTR

It's called negotiating. Ever hear of it?

[PromoTheRobot]

The timeline is actually that the Bills told Peters that they weren't going to renegotiate 2008 at all. But that he should come in and they would start talks about 2009. Which is now. That is why he sat out to begin with.

Wrong, Dog. Peters was already holding out when the Bills told him they wouldn't renegotiate in 2008. They asked him to play 2008 and they would talk in 2009. Peters said F.U. by skipping camp and showing up out of shape. I would never reward a player who does that. Never. You're an idiot if you do.

 

PTR

[Kelly the Dog]

I defy you to explain how the Bills bungled any of this. Refer to the timeline in my post. Tell me exactly how long Peters has been an underpaid LT before he decided to hold out? The answer: not one single snap of the ball!!

 

PTR

The Bills offensive line and offense and team as a whole made a dramatic, instant change from the time Peters was put at LT during the bye week of the 2007 season, which was about a third of the way in. So you're dead wrong.

[billybob]

The Bills want to pay 8mil, Peters wants 11mil- hello is 9.5 mil so hard- WTF would the Bills get with 1.5mil that would be better than Peters?- how would an extra 1.5mil change Peters life in a meaningful way?

 

Make the contract for three years and put in language that says the franchise tag will not be used after the contract expires - long enough for the Bills to plan for life after Peters, short enough that Peters can get another big contract.

 

Give about half the money as a signing bonus - and put language in the contract that allows the Bills to go after the whole signing bonus if there are any future holdouts.

 

The Bills say this is the contract - the alternative is playing out your current contract- and if you hold out, when you come back you will be playing OG, DT and on special teams not LT.

[PromoTheRobot]

The Bills offensive line and offense and team as a whole made a dramatic, instant change from the time Peters was put at LT during the bye week of the 2007 season, which was about a third of the way in. So you're dead wrong.

So what you are saying Peters was underpaid the second the Bills moved him to LT? What ever happened to the concept of proving you are worth the money? By your logic every player who plays LT should get $10M/yr.

 

PTR

[Beerball]

I defy you to explain how the Bills bungled any of this. Refer to the timeline in my post. Tell me exactly how long Peters has been an underpaid LT before he decided to hold out? The answer: not one single snap of the ball!!

 

PTR

We really don't know the answer to that do we? That's why I put it under the things I think I think category. Do we know what has been said to Peters? Do we know the tenor of the Bills negotiation process? Do we know whether promises were made and broken?

 

We really don't know do we?

 

I notice you didn't jump up and down and cheer wildly when I posted that Peters had bungled things badly. I'm trying to keep an open mind on this. I'm trying to see both sides. I'm trying to be as fair as I can.

 

PTR=Peters Trashed Roundly?

[Kelly the Dog]

Wrong, Dog. Peters was already holding out when the Bills told him they wouldn't renegotiate in 2008. They asked him to play 2008 and they would talk in 2009. Peters said F.U. by skipping camp and showing up out of shape. I would never reward a player who does that. Never. You're an idiot if you do.

 

PTR

Uh uh. It was not a punishment thing. It was a stance they took right from the start, and it was probably the right stance. He had three years left. I think Brandon and the Bills did all the right things, not Peters. I just don't think the Bills were honest with the media about it. The fact is, they had no intention of paying him more in 2008, and they shouldn't have.

[Guest dog14787]

Hmmm...Evans...Stroud...now hopefully Jackson. So what is your point? What is so hard to see here? I know you love Peters no matter what he does or how poorly he plays because (drum roll, please) HE'S A TWO-TIME PRO BOWLER!!!! But he also is taking a pretty poor attitude toward the Bills, which of course you justify because the Bills are such a inhumane organization they have been cruelly underpaying Peters.

 

Let's look at the timeline, shall we? Peters had no problem with the Bills until 1) he was voted into the Pro Bowl, and 2) he changed agents to Eugene Parker. So that means he wasn't underpaid until the moment he gets voted to the Pro Bowl, which is the end of the 2007 season. Follow me so far?

 

So what is the first thing Peters does? Does he go to the Bills and say "I'm a Pro Bowl LT now. I'd like to be paid like one"? No. He simply disappears. Doesn't show up. Doesn't call his employer. Nothing. All this happens during the off-season after he's voted to the Pro Bowl. So Peters has yet to play one single snap as an "underpaid" LT. He, and I'm sure Eugene Parker decide that Peters is owed money retroactively for his 2007 performance.

 

Now look at the Bills. They give Peters a nice raise in 2006 when he was an RT. He has a Pro Bowl year in 2007. They feel pretty smart because they did what every says they are supposed to do: lock up good young talent early at a reasonable price. Up to then they figure they have a good relationship with Peters, that is until Peters blindsides the team with his major bout of PMS.

 

I don't know about you, Kelly, but if you had a girlfriend, wife, business associate, etc. who's all nice to you one minute then decides you are the scum of the earth the next, you'd be pretty taken aback. And if this person eventually tells you that you suck and that you owe them money, a diamond ring, whatever, you will start to wonder if this person is worth sticking with.

 

And to make matters worse, Peters hurts your team last season by missing all OTA's and training camp, shows up fat and out of shape the day before the season starts, and gives up more sacks than Mike Gandy in his worst year as a Bill....oh, and he gets injured again.

 

Now he comes back wanting to be paid more money than any LT in history. A guy who has shown that he doesn't care about the Bills. A guy who now has a history of being injury-prone. A guy who now has a reputation around the NFL as having a lack of dedication.

 

You would have to be one gullible sap to give into someone like Peters, especially when you could cash him in for high draft picks and rid your team of a locker room cancer. Luckily, most Bills fans, the Bills front office and most NFL oberserves disagree with you, Micky and all the other Peters jock sniffers.

 

Expect Peters to be shipped off in a week or two. Good riddance.

 

PTR

 

 

Well said

 

 

As much as we need a good LT, I know your right , 9.5 mil tops or hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more no more no more no more.

[Kelly the Dog]

So what you are saying Peters was underpaid the second the Bills moved him to LT? What ever happened to the concept of proving you are worth the money? By your logic every player who plays LT should get $10M/yr.

 

PTR

No, I was just correcting your blatant mistake.

[PromoTheRobot]

We really don't know the answer to that do we? That's why I put it under the things I think I think category. Do we know what has been said to Peters? Do we know the tenor of the Bills negotiation process? Do we know whether promises were made and broken?

 

We really don't know do we?

 

I notice you didn't jump up and down and cheer wildly when I posted that Peters had bungled things badly. I'm trying to keep an open mind on this. I'm trying to see both sides. I'm trying to be as fair as I can.

 

PTR=Peters Trashed Roundly?

That's because I believe Peters is 110% wrong here. The Bills did everything correctly. They locked up a young talent early with an extension. That's what everyone says you are supposed to do. They have rewarded other players looking for better deals as long as they showes commitment to the team.

 

Peters has been a complete a--hole here and you would have to be crazy to want to reward a player like that. It sends the wrong message to your team.

 

PTR

[thebug]

A little off topic here (but I really didn't want to start another thread), but did Peters actually pay the fines for missing training camp last season? I think I read 600 grand?

[PromoTheRobot]

No, I was just correcting your blatant mistake.

Here's where we disagree. You claim Peters was underpaid the moment he was moved to LT. I contend that he was never underpaid. He was voted to his first Pro Bowl and decided he was god's gift to football.

 

PTR

[nucci]

Hmmm...Evans...Stroud...now hopefully Jackson. So what is your point? What is so hard to see here? I know you love Peters no matter what he does or how poorly he plays because (drum roll, please) HE'S A TWO-TIME PRO BOWLER!!!! But he also is taking a pretty poor attitude toward the Bills, which of course you justify because the Bills are such a inhumane organization they have been cruelly underpaying Peters.

 

Let's look at the timeline, shall we? Peters had no problem with the Bills until 1) he was voted into the Pro Bowl, and 2) he changed agents to Eugene Parker. So that means he wasn't underpaid until the moment he gets voted to the Pro Bowl, which is the end of the 2007 season. Follow me so far?

 

So what is the first thing Peters does? Does he go to the Bills and say "I'm a Pro Bowl LT now. I'd like to be paid like one"? No. He simply disappears. Doesn't show up. Doesn't call his employer. Nothing. All this happens during the off-season after he's voted to the Pro Bowl. So Peters has yet to play one single snap as an "underpaid" LT. He, and I'm sure Eugene Parker decide that Peters is owed money retroactively for his 2007 performance.

 

Now look at the Bills. They give Peters a nice raise in 2006 when he was an RT. He has a Pro Bowl year in 2007. They feel pretty smart because they did what every says they are supposed to do: lock up good young talent early at a reasonable price. Up to then they figure they have a good relationship with Peters, that is until Peters blindsides the team with his major bout of PMS.

 

I don't know about you, Kelly, but if you had a girlfriend, wife, business associate, etc. who's all nice to you one minute then decides you are the scum of the earth the next, you'd be pretty taken aback. And if this person eventually tells you that you suck and that you owe them money, a diamond ring, whatever, you will start to wonder if this person is worth sticking with.

 

And to make matters worse, Peters hurts your team last season by missing all OTA's and training camp, shows up fat and out of shape the day before the season starts, and gives up more sacks than Mike Gandy in his worst year as a Bill....oh, and he gets injured again.

 

Now he comes back wanting to be paid more money than any LT in history. A guy who has shown that he doesn't care about the Bills. A guy who now has a history of being injury-prone. A guy who now has a reputation around the NFL as having a lack of dedication.

 

You would have to be one gullible sap to give into someone like Peters, especially when you could cash him in for high draft picks and rid your team of a locker room cancer. Luckily, most Bills fans, the Bills front office and most NFL oberserves disagree with you, Micky and all the other Peters jock sniffers.

 

Expect Peters to be shipped off in a week or two. Good riddance.

 

PTR

Very well said. This should be the final post until something actually happens!