lacoy38 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 With Freddie and Peters complaining about being underpaid (they are), OBD should focus on whose overpaid; we already cut Dockery, why not Kelsay. Think about it, he makes 8 million a year, with that savings we coudl pay Peters long term, or in the very least up him for 09 and 10 and then replace him with a tackle like Bell or someone else we can develop in the next 2 years. Furthermore, Kelsay is a waste of a roster spot; if we draft a DE early that would give us 5 DEs, not enough snaps to go around for Schobel, Kelsay, Denny, Ellis, and a rookie. In a perfect world we'd cut Kelsay, pay Peters, trade Roscoe for a 4th, and give the savings to Jackson, and then : 1) Brown DE 2) Cook TE 3) Wood C/G 4a) Follett LB 4b) Ellison S 5) Shipley C 6) Miller DT 7) Sutton RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 With Freddie and Peters complaining about being underpaid (they are), OBD should focus on whose overpaid; we already cut Dockery, why not Kelsay. Think about it, he makes 8 million a year, with that savings we coudl pay Peters long term, or in the very least up him for 09 and 10 and then replace him with a tackle like Bell or someone else we can develop in the next 2 years.Furthermore, Kelsay is a waste of a roster spot; if we draft a DE early that would give us 5 DEs, not enough snaps to go around for Schobel, Kelsay, Denny, Ellis, and a rookie. In a perfect world we'd cut Kelsay, pay Peters, trade Roscoe for a 4th, and give the savings to Jackson, and then : 1) Brown DE 2) Cook TE 3) Wood C/G 4a) Follett LB 4b) Ellison S 5) Shipley C 6) Miller DT 7) Sutton RB I don't know what type of salary cap hit they would take, but I love the idea and I especially love your draft. Tyrell Sutton in the 7th rd. would be a great pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 ...cut Kelsay, pay Peters... I am all for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 You're insane if you think a rookie DE is gonna be able to step in and be a 3 down player. It took Mario Williams a few years and he is about a million times better than any DE in this draft. Kelsay is good against the run and a bad pass rusher. But he definitely has a place on this team. Just get a situational pass rusher for passing downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Furthermore, Kelsay is a waste of a roster spot; if we draft a DE early that would give us 5 DEs, not enough snaps to go around for Schobel, Kelsay, Denny, Ellis, and a rookie. In a perfect world we'd cut Kelsay, pay Peters, trade Roscoe for a 4th, and give the savings to Jackson, and then : I agree that Kelsay is overpaid but he is better than Ellis. IMO Ellis does not make it past the second preseason game this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 You're insane if you think a rookie DE is gonna be able to step in and be a 3 down player. It took Mario Williams a few years and he is about a million times better than any DE in this draft. Kelsay is good against the run and a bad pass rusher. But he definitely has a place on this team. Just get a situational pass rusher for passing downs. You know which teams he wouldn't have a place on? The Patriots, Dolphins and Jets. BTW, he sucks against the run also. In six years he has 169 tackles which averages to 28 tackles per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 i dunno whether kelsay is good against the run or not, (i tend to think not since he can never keep containment on play action fakes), but just because a player doesn't make the tackle doesn't mean he's not playing the run right. (i.e. he forces the running back inside) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 With Freddie and Peters complaining about being underpaid (they are), OBD should focus on whose overpaid; we already cut Dockery, why not Kelsay. Think about it, he makes 8 million a year, with that savings we coudl pay Peters long term, or in the very least up him for 09 and 10 and then replace him with a tackle like Bell or someone else we can develop in the next 2 years.Furthermore, Kelsay is a waste of a roster spot; if we draft a DE early that would give us 5 DEs, not enough snaps to go around for Schobel, Kelsay, Denny, Ellis, and a rookie. In a perfect world we'd cut Kelsay, pay Peters, trade Roscoe for a 4th, and give the savings to Jackson, and then : 1) Brown DE 2) Cook TE 3) Wood C/G 4a) Follett LB 4b) Ellison S 5) Shipley C 6) Miller DT 7) Sutton RB I think we have to see the roster after the draft. I still don't think they will cut him but I agree he does not bring much to this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 BTW, he sucks against the run also. In six years he has 169 tackles which averages to 28 tackles per season. That's approx. $286,000 per tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 You know which teams he wouldn't have a place on? The Patriots, Dolphins and Jets. BTW, he sucks against the run also. In six years he has 169 tackles which averages to 28 tackles per season. This is just wrong. Look, I don't think Kelsay is good and he is overpaid. But he isn't this terrible player like most fans wanna make. He certainly be a backup on those times and is as good as coleman (Jets' starter), Langford (fins' starter), and had about as good of a year as Ty Warren (obviously he is not as good but the stats were equal). Again, Kelsay isn't good. Ideally, we should find a way to get him to take a pay cut. But he will be much better than any DE in the draft against the run. Why create another hole on our team if we don't have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 That's approx. $286,000 per tackle. In 2007, Julius Peppers had 2.5 sacks (a 0.5 more than the worst DE in football, Kelsay). What is the breakdown of money per sack on that return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacoy38 Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 You're insane if you think a rookie DE is gonna be able to step in and be a 3 down player. It took Mario Williams a few years and he is about a million times better than any DE in this draft. Kelsay is good against the run and a bad pass rusher. But he definitely has a place on this team. Just get a situational pass rusher for passing downs. maybe not a 3 down player, but that's why we have Denney and Ellis, it'd be a nice rotation with those 4. BTW i don't dislike Kelsay, he's OK, but for the money he makes and our situation with Peters and Jackson i think it could be spent in a wiser fashion than on a slightly below average DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 You know which teams he wouldn't have a place on? The Patriots, Dolphins and Jets. BTW, he sucks against the run also. In six years he has 169 tackles which averages to 28 tackles per season. He had 47 tackles last season, 40th amongst D lineman (which also includes DTs). He was tied with Victor Adeyanju, 1 less than Kalimba Edwards, 3 less than Peppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 maybe not a 3 down player, but that's why we have Denney and Ellis, it'd be a nice rotation with those 4. BTW i don't dislike Kelsay, he's OK, but for the money he makes and our situation with Peters and Jackson i think it could be spent in a wiser fashion than on a slightly below average DE. I agree with your general idea and would want CK to take a pay cut. But Ellis showed nothing and Denney is AS' backup. It's a whole different ball game switching sides as a DE. Personally, I just don't want to be depended on a rookie or 2nd year pro. That said, if Ellis shows enough during camp, CK maybe cut anyways. But he won't be moved anytime before that and IMO, he shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 In 2007, Julius Peppers had 2.5 sacks (a 0.5 more than the worst DE in football, Kelsay). What is the breakdown of money per sack on that return? Ok, I admit it--stats can be misleading. It's not really fair to chop it up like that. Still, I think the original point is valid: Can you justify holding on to Kelsay at $8mil/yr.? Kelsay is no Julius Peppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Ok, I admit it--stats can be misleading. It's not really fair to chop it up like that. Still, I think the original point is valid: Can you justify holding on to Kelsay at $8mil/yr.? Kelsay is no Julius Peppers. His cap number is 5.6 million, not 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Kelsay is overpaid. I don't think anyone can argue that. I dont blame Kelsay. But this serves as a great leason in why you can not over pay for talent. It is prohibiting you from maybe makeing the Peters deal. But then again paying Peters 11.5 a year could stop you from paying another talented young guy in a few years. What does happen to te Bills if they were to cut Kelsay at some point? Is there a window where the hit is less or more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Think about it, he makes 8 million a year, Here's Kelsay's contract numbers. On 2/26/2007 he signed a four-year, $23 million contract. The deal included an $8 million signing bonus and initial roster bonus of $3 million. For 2009 he is scheduled to make $3 million and in 2010 he'll make $3.7 million. In 2011 he will be a FA. Free Agent You know which teams he wouldn't have a place on? The Patriots, Dolphins and Jets. You're right but mostly because they play a 3-4 defense. about as good of a year as Ty Warren (obviously he is not as good but the stats were equal). That's because he was hurt most of last year. I think that it was a groin pull or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 His cap number is 5.6 million, not 8. Ok, sorry. I should not have taken the original poster's word for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 That.s because he was hurt most of last year. I think that it was a groin pull or something like that. I just read this on Boston.com. He had 2 groin pulls (yowza) and had to have a knee scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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