The worst mock draft that I've seen yet

[LynchMob23]

No, I don't think they have been. I think there are many here who refuse to acknowledge the context, but the Bills have used a combination of need and BPA that almost all teams use.

No Dean, the inner circle simply grabs their dartboard and chucks it at a DB. Every round. And when they don't get a db, they grab a project they can sell to the team.

 

Why on Earth would they actually mix BPA and need and attempt to hit in several areas per draft?

 

Heresy I say, Heresy!

[The Dean]

No Dean, the inner circle simply grabs their dartboard and chucks it at a DB. Every round. And when they don't get a db, they grab a project they can sell to the team.

 

Why on Earth would they actually mix BPA and need and attempt to hit in several areas per draft?

 

Heresy I say, Heresy!

 

 

There are many here who, if they don't agree with the pick, refuse to even attempt to understand the pick. Since there are many here who have a very rigid belief that the team can only be built one way, anything that deviates from that path is obviously stupid, and couldn't possibly be a result of any sort of reasonable plan.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

Is it the worst because you don't think we should draft crabtree of he's there?

 

Correct. The Bills will not draft Crabtree at #11. To even suggest it doesn't make sense. We have arguably the best receiving tandem in the NFL right now, especially if Anquan Boldin get his wish of being traded, and a plethora of glaring holes that need to be addressed. I'm not sure what makes anyone think the Bills would do this. Also, the fact that he has Mark Sanchez being drafted before Matthew Stafford pretty much destroys his credibility. Stafford, in virtually every way possible, appears to be a better pick than Mark Sanchez.

[spartacus]

I don't disagree. I was pointing out that DBs really do make a difference, and they are less dependent on others, than WRs, when it comes to making a difference to a team.

 

DBs only make a difference is the scheme allows them to utilize their coverage skills.

 

The Bills scheme has the CBs playing 10 yards off the ball in soft zone.

 

 

It is stupid and counter-productive to keep spending premium picks on DBs when you don't utilize the skills that made them high picks in the first place.

[Bill from NYC]

DBs only make a difference is the scheme allows them to utilize their coverage skills.

 

The Bills scheme has the CBs playing 10 yards off the ball in soft zone.

 

 

It is stupid and counter-productive to keep spending premium picks on DBs when you don't utilize the skills that made them high picks in the first place.

 

Please post more often.

[ddaryl]

Crabtree will never make it to 11. But if he were there, the Bills have to consider him. He is a potential difference maker for years to come. While DE is more of an immediate need, they Bills might have Crabtree rated so much higher on there board that they have to take him.

 

I would not be upset with this pick.

 

 

Crabtree is not an option at all when we have desperate needs on the OL that cannot be ignored. We have a huge hole at OLB, and our pass rush is non existent.

 

if anything its a reason to trade down

[The Dean]

DBs only make a difference is the scheme allows them to utilize their coverage skills.

 

The Bills scheme has the CBs playing 10 yards off the ball in soft zone.

 

 

It is stupid and counter-productive to keep spending premium picks on DBs when you don't utilize the skills that made them high picks in the first place.

 

 

I agree with some of this. I prefer a more aggressive approach with the DBs, too, and it does seem at times, as if the staff isn't coaching to the players' strengths.

 

But, if has been noted on this Wall before, there is some sense to the Bills' passive strategy, By using their cushions (which drive me crazy), the Bills allow the slow progression of the opposition, downfield, while doing a good job at preventing the deep strike. That approach probably felt the Bills in some games, where they may have been otherwise involved in a shootout...and the Bills were not equipped to play in shootouts the past couple of years.

 

Of course, some might argue, pressure, leading to turnovers, might help the offense compete a little better.

 

The truth is, there is more than one way to approach the game. Would better coaching have added wins for this team, the past couple of years? I think the answer is obviously "yes", and think the coaching is far more of an issue than the talent on the field (although there are obviously some issues with talent, too).

 

Where I disagree is with the the idea that average DBs could have done just as good of a job playing in the Bills defensive scheme, as the good DBs they have on their roster. Despite having a piss-poor pass rush, the Bills defense finished the season ranked #13 in passing yards allowed. You don't get that, from average DBs. If you need more evidence of that, look at the Bills in 2007, when the DB corp was ravaged by injury...the Bills finished ranked 29th in passing yards allowed.

 

Now, if they add some juice to the pass rush, they can maximize the effectiveness of these DBs (but will they?). Like I said, I don't care what route they take, as long as it ends up where it needs to be...and where it needs to be involves improving the pass rush, this year.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

If Crabtree is available I think the Bills trade down 11 spots to the Vikings where they can add another pick and get better value for TE brandon pettigrew.

[Dibs]

I don't have an opinion on how good/bad the Bills rate Crabtree.....or if they would/should draft him if he 'falls' to the #11.

 

What I find astounding is how many people seem to think that any draftee let alone a WR will definitely become a superstar or pro bowler.

 

#2 Charles Rogers

#3 Braylon Edwards

#4 Peter Warrick

#7 Troy Williamson

#7 Roy Williams

#8 David Terrell

#9 Reggie Williams

#9 Koren Robinson

#10 Mike Williams

#10 Travis Taylor

[spartacus]

I agree with some of this. I prefer a more aggressive approach with the DBs, too, and it does seem at times, as if the staff isn't coaching to the players' strengths.

 

But, if has been noted on this Wall before, there is some sense to the Bills' passive strategy, By using their cushions (which drive me crazy), the Bills allow the slow progression of the opposition, downfield, while doing a good job at preventing the deep strike. That approach probably felt the Bills in some games, where they may have been otherwise involved in a shootout...and the Bills were not equipped to play in shootouts the past couple of years.

 

Of course, some might argue, pressure, leading to turnovers, might help the offense compete a little better.

 

The truth is, there is more than one way to approach the game. Would better coaching have added wins for this team, the past couple of years? I think the answer is obviously "yes", and think the coaching is far more of an issue than the talent on the field (although there are obviously some issues with talent, too).

 

Where I disagree is with the the idea that average DBs could have done just as good of a job playing in the Bills defensive scheme, as the good DBs they have on their roster. Despite having a piss-poor pass rush, the Bills defense finished the season ranked #13 in passing yards allowed. You don't get that, from average DBs. If you need more evidence of that, look at the Bills in 2007, when the DB corp was ravaged by injury...the Bills finished ranked 29th in passing yards allowed.

 

Now, if they add some juice to the pass rush, they can maximize the effectiveness of these DBs (but will they?). Like I said, I don't care what route they take, as long as it ends up where it needs to be...and where it needs to be involves improving the pass rush, this year.

 

passing yards allowed is a deceptive stat for the Bills

 

because teams are able to run at will

 

the yards may be down but the secondary is not stopping 1st conversions when it counts.

 

how many times have the Bills had their CBs 7 yards off in a 3rd and 5.

 

how many times do they blitz on 3rd down and force a quick throw, but the CBs are playing in another zip code.

 

 

it's great if you want to play a soft passive scheme that matches the coach's zombie personality- but don't waste premium picks on cover CBs who have trouble playing in a soft zone.

[The Dean]

passing yards allowed is a deceptive stat for the Bills

 

because teams are able to run at will

 

the yards may be down but the secondary is not stopping 1st conversions when it counts.

 

how many times have the Bills had their CBs 7 yards off in a 3rd and 5.

 

how many times do they blitz on 3rd down and force a quick throw, but the CBs are playing in another zip code.

 

 

it's great if you want to play a soft passive scheme that matches the coach's zombie personality- but don't waste premium picks on cover CBs who have trouble playing in a soft zone.

 

 

Actually, i believe the Bills did fairly well on 3rd down, as a defense, but i don't have a specific report on how they did on 3rd down "when it counts". It seems to me, it counts, most of the time.

 

Again, I agree the DBs would be better if allowed to play more aggressively, which adding to the pass rush would allow. But, I think it's a mistake to call the DB picks a "mistake" simply because the team hasn't used them aggressively in the past.

 

If the Bills improve the pass rush, this season, and play their DBs more aggressively, those DBs will represent draft picks well spent, in the final analysis.

 

Now, if they improve the pass rush, and still decide to play the DBs passively, I'd say the mistake is in retaining the coaches, not in drafting the quality DBs.

[Bill from NYC]

Now, if they improve the pass rush, and still decide to play the DBs passively, I'd say the mistake is in retaining the coaches, not in drafting the quality DBs.

 

Quality is a relative term. For example, the jury is still out on Youboty imo, but his production has not been all that. As far as Whitner, I am betting that the team selecting 8th this year hopes for far more than we got from Whitner.

 

Spartacus makes a point. We drafted these guys to play a mile off the ball. This was stupid then, and is stupid now. Our system has been to draft first round dbs, develop them, and watch them walk.

 

You are defending the inept, and it isn't working any better than the Bills playoff hopes.

[NewEra]

Correct. The Bills will not draft Crabtree at #11. To even suggest it doesn't make sense. We have arguably the best receiving tandem in the NFL right now, especially if Anquan Boldin get his wish of being traded, and a plethora of glaring holes that need to be addressed. I'm not sure what makes anyone think the Bills would do this. Also, the fact that he has Mark Sanchez being drafted before Matthew Stafford pretty much destroys his credibility. Stafford, in virtually every way possible, appears to be a better pick than Mark Sanchez.

 

we have "arguably" the leagues best tandem....for one year

 

Then we are back to having arguably the worst.

[The Dean]

Quality is a relative term. For example, the jury is still out on Youboty imo, but his production has not been all that. As far as Whitner, I am betting that the team selecting 8th this year hopes for far more than we got from Whitner.

 

Spartacus makes a point. We drafted these guys to play a mile off the ball. This was stupid then, and is stupid now. Our system has been to draft first round dbs, develop them, and watch them walk.

 

You are defending the inept, and it isn't working any better than the Bills playoff hopes.

 

 

First of all, given the context of when they picked him, I like the Whitner pick and think the Bills got exactly what they thought they were getting. If the team picking 8th, is in a similar situation to the one the Bills were in that year, they may or may not, use the same criteria. There is more than one way to build a team.

 

Spartacus suggests these guys were drafted to play off the ball. I'm not sure that is true. I think they may have been drafted to play more aggressively than what they have shown, to date, but due to circumstances, the coaches decided to play more passively. And, these guys played FAR BETTER than lesser DBs would have in a similar situation, IMO.

 

We all agree they need to improve the pass rush for the defense to take the next step. Because of Schobel's injury last year, the team's pass rush was impacted to a great degree. His return, and some intelligent drafting and/or trades/FA should be able to show some real improvement, this year.

 

You are spartacus are closed minded on the matter...I get it. You believe there is only one way to build a team, and you use any evidence at your disposal to take shots at a method that differs from the one locked in your head. spartacus is particularly brutal on just about everything the Bills do. He won't even call the development of Peters a success, rather he claims the Bills lucked out, by finding Peters. Nobody familiar with the situations would make that claim. I would hope you aren't that far gone yet.

 

The Bills might have taken a different approach to the draft, the past few years, and had very different problems, right now. Maybe they would have had bad luck with DBs picked in the middle late rounds. They could be in horrible trouble in the secondary, instead of the pass rush. FA wouldn't be an option, as CBs cost way too much, in FA So, like their situation now, they would be stuck having to add rookie DBs, in the draft. A rookie DB can make a contribution, playing in a defensive backfield with established teammates, but counting on several rookies, mixed with DBs of lesser quality is not a recipe for success. I think it is even easier to add a rookie as a situational pass rusher, and count on some success.

 

Of course, if the Bills talent evaluators really aren't good at spotting good defensive linemen, the Bills may simply have ended up with a marginal defensive line, and terrible defensive backs. How do you like that option? Furthermore, had the Bills been successful in the past, at finding some decent interior players high in the draft, do you think many of them would be with the team after they hit FA?

 

So...the way I see it, the Bills have acquired a collection of talent in the past three years, that looks to be an improvement over what was here before. There are a few remaining pieces to the puzzle. Rather than complain about how they acquired the pieces, and whine about them missing a piece I coveted, I can see the puzzle taking shape. If they complete it, I can accept their approach to the puzzle...as long as it ends up working.

 

Some people seem far too hung up on the process, and see it as an end game, in itself. Once they establish themselves (the way a team like the Pats* has), then they can work a similar process...as they did when they were successful in the early 90s. But, they had to overhaul a mess left to them by TD. I figured that to be a three year project. If it takes four years, I will still be happy.

[C.Biscuit97]

I really don't get the Crabtree - Fitzgerald comparisons. Fitzgerald was one of the most dominant receiver I have ever seen. In played in a really tough, defensive minded Big East conference that included Miami and Boston College. He simply dominant.

 

Crabtree is at least two inches shorter and a good deal slower. He also played in a spread offense and we all know how well those type of receivers transition to the pros. i'm not saying he won't be a good player, but I don't really by all this hype. and even if he was as a good as people say, you don't get better by drafting a lot of receivers high.

[spartacus]

First of all, given the context of when they picked him, I like the Whitner pick and think the Bills got exactly what they thought they were getting. If the team picking 8th, is in a similar situation to the one the Bills were in that year, they may or may not, use the same criteria. There is more than one way to build a team.

 

Spartacus suggests these guys were drafted to play off the ball. I'm not sure that is true. I think they may have been drafted to play more aggressively than what they have shown, to date, but due to circumstances, the coaches decided to play more passively. And, these guys played FAR BETTER than lesser DBs would have in a similar situation, IMO.

 

We all agree they need to improve the pass rush for the defense to take the next step. Because of Schobel's injury last year, the team's pass rush was impacted to a great degree. His return, and some intelligent drafting and/or trades/FA should be able to show some real improvement, this year.

 

You are spartacus are closed minded on the matter...I get it. You believe there is only one way to build a team, and you use any evidence at your disposal to take shots at a method that differs from the one locked in your head. spartacus is particularly brutal on just about everything the Bills do. He won't even call the development of Peters a success, rather he claims the Bills lucked out, by finding Peters. Nobody familiar with the situations would make that claim. I would hope you aren't that far gone yet.

 

The Bills might have taken a different approach to the draft, the past few years, and had very different problems, right now. Maybe they would have had bad luck with DBs picked in the middle late rounds. They could be in horrible trouble in the secondary, instead of the pass rush. FA wouldn't be an option, as CBs cost way too much, in FA So, like their situation now, they would be stuck having to add rookie DBs, in the draft. A rookie DB can make a contribution, playing in a defensive backfield with established teammates, but counting on several rookies, mixed with DBs of lesser quality is not a recipe for success. I think it is even easier to add a rookie as a situational pass rusher, and count on some success.

 

Of course, if the Bills talent evaluators really aren't good at spotting good defensive linemen, the Bills may simply have ended up with a marginal defensive line, and terrible defensive backs. How do you like that option? Furthermore, had the Bills been successful in the past, at finding some decent interior players high in the draft, do you think many of them would be with the team after they hit FA?

 

So...the way I see it, the Bills have acquired a collection of talent in the past three years, that looks to be an improvement over what was here before. There are a few remaining pieces to the puzzle. Rather than complain about how they acquired the pieces, and whine about them missing a piece I coveted, I can see the puzzle taking shape. If they complete it, I can accept their approach to the puzzle...as long as it ends up working.

 

Some people seem far too hung up on the process, and see it as an end game, in itself. Once they establish themselves (the way a team like the Pats* has), then they can work a similar process...as they did when they were successful in the early 90s. But, they had to overhaul a mess left to them by TD. I figured that to be a three year project. If it takes four years, I will still be happy.

 

Dean- you need to get me a prescription for those rose colored glasses you are wearing.

 

Your comments make a lot of sense - until you put them in context of the talent level of the rest of the team and what else was available.

 

Sure, there are more than 1 way to build a contender. Unfortunately, the Bills have proven over the last 10 years that their method of spending premium picks on DBs and WRs does not translate to the playoffs. Why not try what the successful teams do, and build a team to control the line of scrimmage.

 

1. Peters development into a top LT has been a huge success. Finding a pro Bowl LT as an undrafted FA is lucky, especially since they were so convinced he was a diamond in the rough that they cut him outright. In fact, if they valued his performance, they would have extended him last year, instead of jerking around their best player- just because Brandon wanted to send a message.

 

2. Whitner is a solid player - you are probably right that the Bills got what they expected. Most teams, however, would demand that a top 10 pick be a playmaker and game changer - especially when Ngata was available to fill a huge hole and has been dominant.

 

3. You say the Bills have improved the talent over the last 3 years and are ready to contend. That may have been true, if they didn't gut the OL and are ready to finish it off by giving away their one elite player. Hard to see how all of these improvements they have made will amount to any more wins when the OL is regressing faster in the opposite direction.

 

4. The mess left by TD was greatly compounded by cutting and trading players prematurely, thus creating even a bigger talent drain. they were then forced to spend money and picks just to get back to where they started, instead of improving pre-existing holes.

 

They did it again by cutting Dockery, after spending the big money on him. Now we have another retread castoff set to start at OG and OC. Should look real pretty with Chambers or Bell at LT after they move Peters.

[R. Rich]

Have no fear, spartacus. We're going to draft 6 OL and be set.

[The Dean]

Dean- you need to get me a prescription for those rose colored glasses you are wearing.

 

Your comments make a lot of sense - until you put them in context of the talent level of the rest of the team and what else was available.

 

Sure, there are more than 1 way to build a contender. Unfortunately, the Bills have proven over the last 10 years that their method of spending premium picks on DBs and WRs does not translate to the playoffs. Why not try what the successful teams do, and build a team to control the line of scrimmage.

 

1. Peters development into a top LT has been a huge success. Finding a pro Bowl LT as an undrafted FA is lucky, especially since they were so convinced he was a diamond in the rough that they cut him outright. In fact, if they valued his performance, they would have extended him last year, instead of jerking around their best player- just because Brandon wanted to send a message.

 

2. Whitner is a solid player - you are probably right that the Bills got what they expected. Most teams, however, would demand that a top 10 pick be a playmaker and game changer - especially when Ngata was available to fill a huge hole and has been dominant.

 

3. You say the Bills have improved the talent over the last 3 years and are ready to contend. That may have been true, if they didn't gut the OL and are ready to finish it off by giving away their one elite player. Hard to see how all of these improvements they have made will amount to any more wins when the OL is regressing faster in the opposite direction.

 

4. The mess left by TD was greatly compounded by cutting and trading players prematurely, thus creating even a bigger talent drain. they were then forced to spend money and picks just to get back to where they started, instead of improving pre-existing holes.

 

They did it again by cutting Dockery, after spending the big money on him. Now we have another retread castoff set to start at OG and OC. Should look real pretty with Chambers or Bell at LT after they move Peters.

 

 

i have to run, so can't go point-by-point, and I don't even think that is necessary here.

 

You may think the Bills turned over the roster prematurely. All I can say is, better a year or two too early, than too late. That team was old, and dead in the water. Drastic changes needed to be made. I'm with the Bills FO on their choice to do so. I understand the other argument, though.

 

If the Bills don't sign Peters (or get a suitable replacement) and don't address the pass rush, this year, you will be right. I expect them to take care of both issues, to a large degree...or at least make moves that attempt to. If they don't, then I'm wrong for giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[Deadstroke]

If the Bills take a WR, CB, or RB in the 1st round, all hope is lost. Even if the Bills think Crabtree is a top 5 talent, I'd hope they trade down in that scenario. I'd much rather see the Bills take one of the QB's than Crabtree.

 

 

Take one of the QB's??? Please... shake your head a little bit and get serious, Rebound.

 

Positions of need are G... TE... LB... DE... and MAYBE T. QB is not one of them!

[billnutinphoenix]

I don't have an opinion on how good/bad the Bills rate Crabtree.....or if they would/should draft him if he 'falls' to the #11.

 

What I find astounding is how many people seem to think that any draftee let alone a WR will definitely become a superstar or pro bowler.

 

#2 Charles Rogers

#3 Braylon Edwards

#4 Peter Warrick

#7 Troy Williamson

#7 Roy Williams

#8 David Terrell

#9 Reggie Williams

#9 Koren Robinson

#10 Mike Williams

#10 Travis Taylor

 

#8 David Terrell...Who picked him?