Per PFT: Bills Shopping Parrish

[bartshan-83]

Roscoe Parrish is simply the best at what he does...return punts. His career PR avg. is 0.1 yds. behind the all-time NFL leader. He is a full 2 yds. ahead of the next best active career numbers (the "legendary" Devin Hester). So bottom line is, if you trade him, it is almost a certainty that the Bills will never see another PR of his caliber.

 

So if you think having an average punt returner + a 3rd or 4th round pick is better than having the best ever, then pull the trigger.

 

I for one would never pull the plug on such an explosive threat, especially when grading his WR prowess in this running joke of an offense we've had for his entire career.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

How do you come up with this conclusion? Parrish is a great punt returner but as a wr he has shown himself to be useless/ Go look at the ststs and argue otherwise. He is a luxury item to carry on the roster as a single role player.

 

Who do you think is gonna get that roster spot? Tim Massaquoi as a 4th tight end? Some UDFA as an 8th linebacker? A backup fullback?

 

 

Oh, and

 

He's no more of a "luxury item" than Justin Jenkins, or Drew McIntyre, both of which were on the roster last year...except Parrish actually contributes. We have the best punt returner in football. The special teams are our saving grace. Parrish is one of the few players on this team the opposition GAME PLANS FOR. This is just ridiculous.

[Tipster19]

You guys are WAY overestimating Parrish's value. Everyone is forgetting the leadership that Reed displayed last year and is a much better slot receiver than Parrish. We got our starting 3 WRs in Evans, Owens and Reed. Roscoe Parrish can't crack that line-up and we have more WRs being developed and waiting in the wings. We also have more than an adequate, if not better, returner in McKelvin versus Parrish. The time to maximize your trade value is when you deal from a position of strength.

 

Folks, you can't have it both ways. People complain because we can't make the play-offs but when we have an asset that can net us additional help in areas of need, nobody wants to relinquish it. I think that it's fair to say that you got to give to receive. If trading Roscoe can improve this team in another area than we need to do it. The crying that is going on around here about a punt returner is pathetic. Get over it people, we need more help and if trading Parrish accomplishes that for us then we need to do it.

[Leonidas]

Roscoe Parrish is simply the best at what he does...return punts. His career PR avg. is 0.1 yds. behind the all-time NFL leader. He is a full 2 yds. ahead of the next best active career numbers (the "legendary" Devin Hester). So bottom line is, if you trade him, it is almost a certainty that the Bills will never see another PR of his caliber.

 

So if you think having an average punt returner + a 3rd or 4th round pick is better than having the best ever, then pull the trigger.

 

I for one would never pull the plug on such an explosive threat, especially when grading his WR prowess in this running joke of an offense we've had for his entire career.

 

 

 

Who do you think is gonna get that roster spot? Tim Massaquoi as a 4th tight end? Some UDFA as an 8th linebacker? A backup fullback?

 

 

Oh, and

 

He's no more of a "luxury item" than Justin Jenkins, or Drew McIntyre, both of which were on the roster last year...except Parrish actually contributes. We have the best punt returner in football. The special teams are our saving grace. Parrish is one of the few players on this team the opposition GAME PLANS FOR. This is just ridiculous.

 

 

Excellent points all around. I can't imagine this is up for discussion. The idiots who are like "thank God" to this idea need to be put down.

[Leonidas]

You guys are WAY overestimating Parrish's value. Everyone is forgetting the leadership that Reed displayed last year and is a much better slot receiver than Parrish. We got our starting 3 WRs in Evans, Owens and Reed. Roscoe Parrish can't crack that line-up and we have more WRs being developed and waiting in the wings. We also have more than an adequate, if not better, returner in McKelvin versus Parrish. The time to maximize your trade value is when you deal from a position of strength.

 

Folks, you can't have it both ways. People complain because we can't make the play-offs but when we have an asset that can net us additional help in areas of need, nobody wants to relinquish it. I think that it's fair to say that you got to give to receive. If trading Roscoe can improve this team in another area than we need to do it. The crying that is going on around here about a punt returner is pathetic. Get over it people, we need more help and if trading Parrish accomplishes that for us then we need to do it.

 

How does an extra fourth round draft pick put us over the hump, exactly??

[silvermike]

How much of his lack of offensive contribution is due to the offense's ineptitude? Some, I'd wager.

 

Of course it matters - but the fact remains that in this sucky offense, he's never been better than the third-best WR on a team where the 2nd best WR wasn't good enough. This year, he was 6th on the team in receiving yards and receptions, behind Fred Jackson and Robert Royal. And for a supposed deep threat, each one of those guys had a longer reception than he did - as did Derek Schouman. The team has added Terrell Owens and expects some development from Hardy and Johnson. He will not be expected to contribute on offense in 2009.

 

So is he worth a roster spot as a return specialist? I don't know - probably. But I'd be strongly interested in what Fred Jackson can do as our primary punt returner, as he's succeeded when he has the chance. Parrish is more consistent than Devin Hester, so he has a higher average, especially since Hester collapsed this year. But Hester had 5 return TDs when helped the Bears to the Super Bowl. Parrish has never had more than one in a season; I think he's mostly taking advantage of a strong, talented blocking scheme that even sent Fast Freddie Smith to the house.

[Guest dog14787]

You think Ralph Wilson is running Roscoe Parrish out the door?

 

No, I think our owner has lost some faith in his coaching staff ( just my opinion) and the probe to see if Roscoe Parish has any trade worth comes from the FO and is probably something Dick Jauron would prefer not to do if at all possible.

 

Posting that Dick Jauron has no pull as Lori pointed out is simply not true, just wishful thinking on my part.

[Leonidas]

Of course it matters - but the fact remains that in this sucky offense, he's never been better than the third-best WR on a team where the 2nd best WR wasn't good enough. This year, he was 6th on the team in receiving yards and receptions, behind Fred Jackson and Robert Royal. And for a supposed deep threat, each one of those guys had a longer reception than he did - as did Derek Schouman. The team has added Terrell Owens and expects some development from Hardy and Johnson. He will not be expected to contribute on offense in 2009.

 

So is he worth a roster spot as a return specialist? I don't know - probably. But I'd be strongly interested in what Fred Jackson can do as our primary punt returner, as he's succeeded when he has the chance. Parrish is more consistent than Devin Hester, so he has a higher average, especially since Hester collapsed this year. But Hester had 5 return TDs when helped the Bears to the Super Bowl. Parrish has never had more than one in a season; I think he's mostly taking advantage of a strong, talented blocking scheme that even sent Fast Freddie Smith to the house.

 

I don't think Parrish is a deep threat. Just because he's fast doesn't mean he's running the deep routes, and at his size he really has to beat a guy to be open deep. But going across the field he's got tremendous ability.

 

You might be right that he will lose some playing time on offense if Hardy and Johnson get their game up to speed. But in '10 when Owens is gone and one of those two is playing the outside and the other is either cut or is riding the pine, it would be nice to have Parrish in there as the 3rd/4th option while continuing to be the most electrifying return man in the game. This thought that since that loser Jonathan Smith had one return for a touchdown Parrish is expendable is ridiculous. Remember, he needed a roster spot too and he sure as sh-- didn't contribute anything on offense. At least Parrish can, and does on occassion. And he's 10x the returner "Fast Freddie" was. That's not even a comparison.

[silvermike]

But going across the field he's got tremendous ability.

 

When have you seen this? If he's got such tremendous ability, why do Josh Reed and Robert Royal catch a greater percentage of passes thrown to them from the same quarterbacks?

 

Remember, he needed a roster spot too and he sure as sh-- didn't contribute anything on offense.

 

Which is why Fast Freddie got cut and replaced. Parrish was supposed to be a viable WR and a return threat. He ended up being a one-trick pony as well.

 

And he's 10x the returner "Fast Freddie" was. That's not even a comparison

 

Freddie averaged 13.2 yards per return. Roscoe averages 14.0 I'm not saying that Freddie's some long-lost superstar, I'm saying that since EVEN Freddie had some success returning kicks in our scheme, it may be due more to the scheme than the return man.

[Kelly the Dog]

There's no way Roscoe Parrish is worth 25 yards per game more than an average punt returner! He didn't even have 400 total return yards on the season! I agree that he earns us a few more yards by being a threat than show up on his stat sheet, so maybe his total value is about 400 yards on special teams. But that's still not going to be 100 yards more than an average guy's contribution: and Fred Jackson may well be above average anyway. He averaged slightly more yards per return than Parrish last year anyway, though of course, his 7 returns aren't really enough to judge.

I definitely think he is. 5 yards per return, plus I would easily say 5 yards per fair catch (instead of kicking it deep or out of bounds kick, sometimes a lot more than 5. There were times when shanks went only 30 yards and OB when they were trying to kick it away from him.

[billsrcursed]

I couldn't disagree more. Read the article Dave McBride posted about Sehorn. That's why we need Parrish. Getting rid of guys to free up roster spots, and Parrish is the first to go? Seriously? I could think of ten other guys I'd rather see go first (Jenkins, Hawthorne, Corto, Kelsay, Denney, Ellis, Bryan (wow, I just named almost all of our DE's...scary), Whittle, Hamdan, Dustin Fox, Alvin Bowen, Blake Costanzo, Teddy Lehman, P.K. Sam, Brandon Rodd ).

 

By returning punts and kicks, Parrish gives almost "virtual depth" at CB since it saves them from almost certain injury. He's not a starter on offense anyhow so giving him a breather isn't a dilemma we ever have to face anyway.

 

I'm not denying his talent, and I'm not saying I wish others would be shopped instead of him.

 

What I'm saying is that he draws more in a trade situation than those other guys you named. If the Bills feel they need to do this in order to get better at another position, why wouldn't we do it?? Look, bottom line is we've never "suffered" at the return position in the past, it can be filled. Is it a risk? Sure, but so is the drive to the stadium. The FO can't let that dictate whether or not they make a move in order to improve at another position. And again, I'm saying all of this with the assumption they won't just take a pick and use it, but rather flip it or package him in a trade.

[DazedandConfused]

Parrish is a smaller guy than the bangers we would all want but in reality are not going to find. The reality is that Parrish has really impressed me with his willingness to go for passes in the slot and though he can be hurt and one would not want to count on him as your go-to guy, I think he can be a powerful tool in an O where both Evans and TO can demand double-teams,

 

My sense of the only problem I have with Parrish is that actually neither Fairchild nor Schoenert seemed to design am O that utilized his skills well. It was not just Parrish as the entire O never seemed to get as much out of the pass patterns of any of he WRs. Use of more slant patterns and even getting a close as they could for using illegal pick plays to get more separation for the WRs seemed to be obvious failings of the O the Bills ran,

 

I think this team would be far more productive if it used 3 WRs as its base set and generally did not use the conventional TE based NFL O. In fact, I think this team would be making a mistake if it devoted a 1st round pick for Pettigrew as quiite frankly neither Schouman ro fine strike me as well rounded enough talents to be credible starters.

 

If TO still has the same performance he put up for Dallas last year in his gas tank, I think it simply forces other teams to run a nickel or even a dime package as the base D since if the really did dt both Evans and TO with an over and under xoverage, Parrish should be able to use his speed to run wild over the middle.

[Leonidas]

When have you seen this? If he's got such tremendous ability, why do Josh Reed and Robert Royal catch a greater percentage of passes thrown to them from the same quarterbacks?

 

I would point to the QB and our offense in general. Did T.O. watch a Bills game before signing here??

 

 

Which is why Fast Freddie got cut and replaced. Parrish was supposed to be a viable WR and a return threat. He ended up being a one-trick pony as well.

 

Then we're back to the question, name a starting player who is a dominant KR/PR in this league. And Devin Hester doesn't count since they put D. Manning (I refuse to spell his first name - whomever named him was clinically retarded) back there ever since Hester started playing offense.

 

 

Freddie averaged 13.2 yards per return. Roscoe averages 14.0 I'm not saying that Freddie's some long-lost superstar, I'm saying that since EVEN Freddie had some success returning kicks in our scheme, it may be due more to the scheme than the return man.

 

Too small of a sample size. Teams didn't fear Jonathan Smith the way they fear Parrish. Imagine if they kicked it to him every time...

 

 

What I'm saying is that he draws more in a trade situation than those other guys you named. If the Bills feel they need to do this in order to get better at another position, why wouldn't we do it?? Look, bottom line is we've never "suffered" at the return position in the past, it can be filled. Is it a risk? Sure, but so is the drive to the stadium. The FO can't let that dictate whether or not they make a move in order to improve at another position. And again, I'm saying all of this with the assumption they won't just take a pick and use it, but rather flip it or package him in a trade.

 

You're talking about a fourth round pick for the best PR in the game. Plain and simple. He's not taking up an unnecessary roster spot, he's not putting us over the salary cap, and by not trading him for a fourth rounder he's not keeping us one player from the playoffs. This is a terrible idea.

[Tipster19]

How does an extra fourth round draft pick put us over the hump, exactly??

that's your assumption. I believe that the report stated that they were testing the market to see what Parrish would net. Who said anything about a 4th rd pick? I think that you might see Parrish involve in some kind of package with a pick so we could move up in the draft. If he were to be traded just for a straight up pick then I think a decent 3rd rd pick would be about the fair compensation for him.

[Leonidas]

that's your assumption. I believe that the report stated that they were testing the market to see what Parrish would net. Who said anything about a 4th rd pick? I think that you might see Parrish involve in some kind of package with a pick so we could move up in the draft. If he were to be traded just for a straight up pick then I think a decent 3rd rd pick would be about the fair compensation for him.

 

Okay then, how does an extra third round pick get us over the hump, exactly??

 

And yes, that's my assumption because, you know, that's basically what's been circulated as compensation and that's exactly what the Chiefs got for Dante Hall. But what do I know.

[Thurman#1]

I really don't see the point of trading Parrish only because we are never going to get anything really good for him. A third round pick is just not worth it to me. And I doubt we can get a second round pick. The only way I would do it would be straight up for an established player who can come in and start, or be a solid reserve like a situational pass rusher who will produce. Now, Parrish for Tony Scheffler might be a good idea.

 

 

 

Yeah, for us. For the Broncos, not so much.

[BobDVA]

You know, this may not be the Bills that want to move Parrish, but Parrish himself wanting more playing time as a WR, not just a punt returner. It has been said that he is not disgruntled, but we really do no know what he has been saying to the FO. He may indeed be jousting for more playing time. Johnson will be taking up the playing time in the slot after Reed, not Parrish. With Hardy spelling TO and Evans, Roscoe's playing time outside of Punt returner will be down to a couple plays a game designed for him, that everyone will know is coming by mid-season.

 

As one that does not go to refill my beer until after Roscoe has returned his punt, I will miss him greatly. None the less, I take nothing less than a third for him, and if I do not get it, then he takes up a roster spot as strictly a punt returner.

[billsrcursed]

I would point to the QB and our offense in general. Did T.O. watch a Bills game before signing here??

 

 

 

 

Then we're back to the question, name a starting player who is a dominant KR/PR in this league. And Devin Hester doesn't count since they put D. Manning (I refuse to spell his first name - whomever named him was clinically retarded) back there ever since Hester started playing offense.

 

 

 

 

Too small of a sample size. Teams didn't fear Jonathan Smith the way they fear Parrish. Imagine if they kicked it to him every time...

 

 

 

 

You're talking about a fourth round pick for the best PR in the game. Plain and simple. He's not taking up an unnecessary roster spot, he's not putting us over the salary cap, and by not trading him for a fourth rounder he's not keeping us one player from the playoffs. This is a terrible idea.

 

Dude, I'm seriously not trying to give you a hard time. I think we're just not seeing eye to eye on this. I agree with most of what you're saying. The only thing I question is if the Bills hang on to the "4th round pick" or if they use it to package up and get value in return at a position we're deficient in. Let's say we trade Roscoe and a 3rd for Scheffler, are you saying our team would then be worse than if they didn't make this trade?

[generaLee83]

Brandon would be stupid to trade Parrish.

 

You don't trade a player who is the best in the NFL at what he does.

 

Besides, what does he net? A fourth round pick, third at best?

 

Not even close to being worth it.

[Magox]

Okay then, how does an extra third round pick get us over the hump, exactly??

 

And yes, that's my assumption because, you know, that's basically what's been circulated as compensation and that's exactly what the Chiefs got for Dante Hall. But what do I know.

I've been saying for months that exploring the trade possibilities for Parrish makes a lot of sense. That he was expendable as a returner and really never has had much value as a WR, and every time I mentioned that McKelvin was more known coming out of college as a PR than KR, it just didn't really sink in. McKelvin is a NCAA record holding Punt Returner, he had 8 PR's for TD's in his college career and only 1 KR for TD. We know that Mcgee can obviously be the KR and Freddy Jackson is a very good backup as a PR as evidenced with his 16 yard per return average last year. For some reason, it just doesn't sink in with people and they disregard it completely. The typical comment I would recieve afterwards would be something like, "well McKelvin can't be a DB, PR, KR, he could get injured". It's like they totally disregarded what I had just said. Sometimes people just have a one track mind and disregard the facts. I understand that Parrish is a popular person, and he has added value in regards to our teams PR's, but we have a guy that may even be better. I'm sure when we all saw McKelvin start off the year as the Kick Returner last year, we would of never have thought that McKelvin could be as good if not better than Mcgee, who btw was the one of the best if not the best KR in the league. Well, we saw how that worked out. Now we are going to doubt that McKelvin can't do the job as the PR when he was the NCAA record holder for most college Return TD's.

 

It looks as if Tim Grahm believes it is logical as well. I mean, how couldn't it be?

 

A third rounder would be very good value. For those who say, "what is a third rounder going to do?" I mean is that even a real question? Maybe the third rounder becomes a good player, maybe he doesn't, just like any draft choice, which could even be said for the 1st overall pick. When a team makes decisions, not all the decisions that are made are for immediate returns. I'd be happy if that 3rd round choice ended up being a starter by his third year. Some people are too short sighted. At least Russ Brandon is taking the logical, pragmatic approach to this, and he is seeing what is out there.

 

My guess is that if a team wanted to trade for Roscoe for a draft choice that he would fetch somewhere in between a 4th-5th rounder. My hopes is that we package a deal that would include Roscoe and a 4th-5th rounder for Brian Waters. That would be what I would ideally want. If that deal doesn't materialize, and all we are offered is a draft choice, ideally a 3rd and maybe a 4th if it is somewhere in top half of the draft.