Gun ownership in the states/mass shootings

[Thirdborn]

Ok, I've been thinking. So far we're off to a good start.

 

It is not my intention to Demonize or Lionize the gun owners, but to examine the liklihood that there is a small but significant portion of the community that share the following experiences: own guns, have a distrust of authority, consider it not so much as their right to protect themselves, their loved ones, and their property,as it is their duty to do so.

 

Now, from that group of gun owners , there is a liklihood that there are those with a disdain for the government... Democrats, Liberals, socialists, Obama, the U.N., .......... I think these people would still fit in the "mainstream". of social mores, and are entitled to their views. These people are not a threat.

 

But finally, I believe this is where the people who shoot themselves after they destroy as many others as possible, have made the leap to Hell. Anyone who has ever discharged a firearm has met at one point, or another, that dude that was a little too into it.

 

 

How difficult would it be to believe that there were a significant number of US gun possessing individuals that are without a job, depressed, angry, and prone to a survivalist mentality.

 

I think I am seeing these same people being fired up and manipulated by fear based rhetoric. Chuck Norris wants to cecede to Texas Obama wants to take your guns away, A Senator delcares that she is behind enemy lines when she refers to the WhiteHouse, Cheney howling that we are defensless and are begging to be attacked. The president is an empty suit at best, possibly an Islamic terrorist, not even born in this country. And we are in a depression.

 

I believe this is the backwater that spawns the mass shooters.

 

I expect to see at least 15 more mass shootings in the U.S. alone this year.

 

Am I making an unreasonable assumption?

 

(Go easy on me .... I didn't vomit forth one link)

[drnykterstein]

Someone said once that all the mass shootings in the last few years have been in gun free zones, where you can't even carry with a conceal permit. I haven't double checked that, but it seems true from my memory.

 

Maybe if there were less restrictions on guns people would not be able to do that kind of sh-- because they'd get shot by a good citizen before they were able to do any damage.

 

Anyways, ya with unemployment on it's way up, the crazies are going to do even crazier things if they lose their jobs. You may want to carry a gun to protect yourself.

[Thirdborn]

Someone said once that all the mass shootings in the last few years have been in gun free zones, where you can't even carry with a conceal permit. I haven't double checked that, but it seems true from my memory.

 

Maybe if there were less restrictions on guns people would not be able to do that kind of sh-- because they'd get shot by a good citizen before they were able to do any damage.

 

Anyways, ya with unemployment on it's way up, the crazies are going to do even crazier things if they lose their jobs.

 

 

I don't think anyone can prevent someone from indiscriminately shooting up a random group of people. If someone who was armed intervened, and they were skilled enough, I concede that they could reduce the ammount of deaths, but it wouldn't disuade the shooter from committing the act.

[drnykterstein]

I bet if it was a common occurrence it would. Why do you think people do that crazy stuff in the first place? They want attention and to do something people will notice and put on the news.

 

If they thought they were going to get all shot up before they could even kill a few people and make the local news... my guess is they would not do it.

[KD in CA]

I think you're drawing too much of a link to politics in trying to equate gun ownership with right wing politics. I don't recall many of these shooters exposing political beliefs and they don't appear to target gov't officials or high profile targets. Rather, most of them lash out within their immediate surroundings (Binghamton, VT Tech, Columbine shooters all attacked people they saw regularly). As Hannibal Lecter said, we covet what we see everyday. They aren't blaming liberals or conservatives; they are blaming their neighbor because he has a nicer car or a prettier girlfriend.

 

Our society places an enormous premium on success; be it money, attractiveness, fame, accumulation of material goods, etc., and our American Idiot culture only feeds the insecurities of those people who can't handle being just another ordinary JSP. The ones who snap are usually lonely, unaccomplished outcasts or anonymous nobodies whose hopes and dreams have been dashed along the way.

[Thirdborn]

I think you're drawing too much of a link to politics in trying to equate gun ownership with right wing politics. I don't recall many of these shooters exposing political beliefs and they don't appear to target gov't officials or high profile targets. Rather, most of them lash out within their immediate surroundings (Binghamton, VT Tech, Columbine shooters all attacked people they saw regularly). As Hannibal Lecter said, we covet what we see everyday. They aren't blaming liberals or conservatives; they are blaming their neighbor because he has a nicer car or a prettier girlfriend.

 

Our society places an enormous premium on success; be it money, attractiveness, fame, accumulation of material goods, etc., and our American Idiot culture only feeds the insecurities of those people who can't handle being just another ordinary JSP. The ones who snap are usually lonely, unaccomplished outcasts or anonymous nobodies whose hopes and dreams have been dashed along the way.

 

I don't dispute your second paragraph, however I believe that there have been examples of what would appear to be politically motivated killings

 

Richard Poplawski kills three police officers in Pittsburgh, convinced that Jews controlled the media and

President Obama was scheming to take away his arsenal 4/09

 

Jim Adkisson opened a guitar case at a Tennessee church pulling out a gun, killing two, and wounding four more.

He targeted the congregation out of hatred, saying, “liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country.” 7/08

 

Timothy Johnson shot and killed the democratic party chairman of Arkansas, Bill Gwatney, 8/08

[IDBillzFan]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. What it sounds like you're saying is that the fear-mongering being driven by the right is causing people with guns to freak out.

 

You may be right. The other night Keith Olberman accused Glen Beck of being responsible for the deaths of the Pittsburgh policeman who were killed because the gunman worried that Obama would take his guns, and Glen Beck is an accessory to those murders. I think Olberman is right on the money here. But he usually is, anyway.

[Thirdborn]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. What it sounds like you're saying is that the fear-mongering being driven by the right is causing people with guns to freak out.

 

You may be right. The other night Keith Olberman accused Glen Beck of being responsible for the deaths of the Pittsburgh policeman who were killed because the gunman worried that Obama would take his guns, and Glen Beck is an accessory to those murders. I think Olberman is right on the money here. But he usually is, anyway.

 

 

I would slightly ammend your take as follows

 

 

the fear-mongering being driven by the right is causing unstable people with guns to freak out. But yes ... essentially thats my point.

[Alaska Darin]

I don't think anyone can prevent someone from indiscriminately shooting up a random group of people. If someone who was armed intervened, and they were skilled enough, I concede that they could reduce the ammount of deaths, but it wouldn't disuade the shooter from committing the act.

Really? How many of these weirdos ever attack a police station? They choose places like schools because they with virtually absolute certainty that they'll be able to execute people at their whim.

 

There are always going to be people who commit mayhem. If we removed guns from society, these idiots would drive their cars into crowds, knife kids on a playground, or pull a Murrah. I'd love to find a way to stop it completely but the gene pool would need a whole lot more chlorine than is currently available.

 

It's kinda like wishing we could stop spending a half a trillion a year on the military and instead put that money into making the average guy's life a little better. It's a nice idea but it ain't close to reality.

[Thirdborn]

Really? How many of these weirdos ever attack a police station? They choose places like schools because they with virtually absolute certainty that they'll be able to execute people at their whim.

 

There are always going to be people who commit mayhem. If we removed guns from society, these idiots would drive their cars into crowds, knife kids on a playground, or pull a Murrah. I'd love to find a way to stop it completely but the gene pool would need a whole lot more chlorine than is currently available.

 

It's kinda like wishing we could stop spending a half a trillion a year on the military and instead put that money into making the average guy's life a little better. It's a nice idea but it ain't close to reality.

 

 

I certainly am not advocating the disarming of America. I own 3 handguns a rifle and a shotgun.

I'm just thinking that maybe it would be a good thing if we didn't fan the flames. Things are bad, but the country is not going to fall into anarchy, like some talking heads proclaim.

[Alaska Darin]

I certainly am not advocating the disarming of America. I own 3 handguns a rifle and a shotgun.

I'm just thinking that maybe it would be a good thing if we didn't fan the flames. Things are bad, but the country is not going to fall into anarchy, like some talking heads proclaim.

I think the first thing to change is how much press they give to these douche bags. Stop making them famous and I bet the numbers drop precipitously.

 

And I didn't think you were advocating disarmament (just FYI).

[Bad Lieutenant]

I think you're drawing too much of a link to politics in trying to equate gun ownership with right wing politics. I don't recall many of these shooters exposing political beliefs and they don't appear to target gov't officials or high profile targets. Rather, most of them lash out within their immediate surroundings (Binghamton, VT Tech, Columbine shooters all attacked people they saw regularly). As Hannibal Lecter said, we covet what we see everyday. They aren't blaming liberals or conservatives; they are blaming their neighbor because he has a nicer car or a prettier girlfriend.

 

James Adkisson

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Knoxvill...church_shooting

[IDBillzFan]

I certainly am not advocating the disarming of America. I own 3 handguns a rifle and a shotgun.

I'm just thinking that maybe it would be a good thing if we didn't fan the flames. Things are bad, but the country is not going to fall into anarchy, like some talking heads proclaim.

I'm with you. Times are bad, but the current administration is doing everything it is mentally capable of doing in an effort to address the issues. People need to understand that the steps being taken are going to take time; months, years even. I know we were told that the stimulus package was supposed to stop the bloodletting of jobs, and get shovel-ready jobs going immediately, and stabilize the stock market and free up lending to curb the greatest economic crisis since The Great Depression, and I know none of that has happened and people actually can't account for all stimulus money beyond knowing what a volcano is going to do.

 

But if everyone would just be more patient, stop yelling at the things the current administration is doing, in due time, this country will get back on its feet. And then unstable people with guns will be able to return to randomly shooting people for perfectly good reasons: like because they can't get their dying spouse in for open heart surgery fast enough because someone in DC hasn't decided how important the surgery is.

 

(Sorry. I tried.)

[Thirdborn]

I'm with you. Times are bad, but the current administration is doing everything it is mentally capable of doing in an effort to address the issues. People need to understand that the steps being taken are going to take time; months, years even. I know we were told that the stimulus package was supposed to stop the bloodletting of jobs, and get shovel-ready jobs going immediately, and stabilize the stock market and free up lending to curb the greatest economic crisis since The Great Depression, and I know none of that has happened and people actually can't account for all stimulus money beyond knowing what a volcano is going to do.

 

But if everyone would just be more patient, stop yelling at the things the current administration is doing, in due time, this country will get back on its feet. And then unstable people with guns will be able to return to randomly shooting people for perfectly good reasons: like because they can't get their dying spouse in for open heart surgery fast enough because someone in DC hasn't decided how important the surgery is.

 

(Sorry. I tried.)

 

noted

[Da Big Man]

Someone said once that all the mass shootings in the last few years have been in gun free zones, where you can't even carry with a conceal permit. I haven't double checked that, but it seems true from my memory.

 

Maybe if there were less restrictions on guns people would not be able to do that kind of sh-- because they'd get shot by a good citizen before they were able to do any damage.

 

Anyways, ya with unemployment on it's way up, the crazies are going to do even crazier things if they lose their jobs. You may want to carry a gun to protect yourself.

I agree, if everyone could possibly be carrying a gun then it would lessen someones desire to go on a rampage. Even if that person was going to shoot his or her self after it would lower the body count to one Wild west style.

[blzrul]

I agree, if everyone could possibly be carrying a gun then it would lessen someones desire to go on a rampage. Even if that person was going to shoot his or her self after it would lower the body count to one Wild west style.

If Wild West style worked, it would still be in place.

[drnykterstein]

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/08/surp...t-historic-low/

[DC Tom]

If Wild West style worked, it would still be in place.

 

"Still"?

 

The Wild West wasn't even the Wild West.

[KD in CA]

I don't dispute your second paragraph, however I believe that there have been examples of what would appear to be politically motivated killings

 

Richard Poplawski kills three police officers in Pittsburgh, convinced that Jews controlled the media and

President Obama was scheming to take away his arsenal 4/09

 

Jim Adkisson opened a guitar case at a Tennessee church pulling out a gun, killing two, and wounding four more.

He targeted the congregation out of hatred, saying, "liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country." 7/08

 

Timothy Johnson shot and killed the democratic party chairman of Arkansas, Bill Gwatney, 8/08

 

Sure, there are always contrary examples, but the significant majority of these 'postal' folks do not seem to be politically motivated. Here's one list of 'worst US shootings' (post VT Tech). I don't recall all the details, but don't remember any of them doing it because they didn't like liberals.

 

 

 

October 1991 Previously, the worst mass shooting had been when George Hennard drove his pickup to Luby's cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, then shot dead 23 people and himself.

 

July 1984 Some 21 people were killed when a 41-year-old opened fire at a McDonald's restaurant in San Diego. He was shot by police.

 

August 1966 A gunman holed up in a clocktower at the University of Texas campus in Austin killed 15 people before being shot by police. Prior to yesterday, this was the worst campus shooting in US history.

 

August 1986 A former postal worker entered a post office in Oklahoma, and shot 14 workers before killing himself.

 

February 1983 Three men shot dead 14 people in the Wah Mee club in Seattle's Chinatown.

 

April 1999 The most notorious campus shooting of modern times: two students at Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado, killed 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves.

 

March 2005 A student at Red Lake high school in Minnesota killed five students, a teacher, a security guard, and then himself. Before school he had shot dead his grandfather and grandfather's companion.

 

July 1993 A businessman, 55, entered a law office in San Francisco and shot dead eight people, then himself.

 

February 1988 An ex-employee returned to his laboratory in Sunnyvale, California, and killed seven people, and injured three - including a woman he had been stalking.

 

January 2006 A woman killed seven people then herself at her former postal workplace in Goleta, California. March 2006 A loner shot six people at party in Seattle, then himself.

[blzrul]

How many of these dead people are children?