SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 I hope Bell becomes a stud LT and makes the Pro-Bowl for the next 3 years. All of the Peters lovers will shut their mouths then. If not, I'll eat my crow with salt and pepper and enjoy it. That would be great if it happened. But it wouldn't make us Peters supporters wrong, it would just make the Bills exceedingly lucky. Personally, I don't care to see the Bills wager an entire season on getting lucky when there is far less than a 50% chance that it would even come to pass. Let me ask you this, do you think that if anyone in the Bills organization felt like they could win without Jason Peters, don't you think he would be old news by now? I certainly wouldn't keep him on the roster if I felt like I could replace him adequately, and I doubt the Bills front office would either. You trade Peters advocates have no response to this simple truth.
mrags Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 You trade Peters advocates have no response to this simple truth. Lets try this. I happen to be a supporter of JP. I think he is a good player. Not great like everyone here seems to think as they stroke his epeen. But I hardly think JP is worth the 11-13million that he is asking/expecting before he plays a another snap. SIMPLE TRUTH.......Peters has not proved anything at all. He has had 1 good season in his NFL career. Im not getting into the argument that he made the last 2 Pro-Bowls. I think its more than obvious that the majority of people on this board will state that he didnt play nearly as bad last year as we make it out to be, but I think you would probobly get the same response if asked if he should have made the Pro-Bowl. Im sick of hearing the "NFL coaches, Players, Owners, Fans" voted him in crap. Because there are plenty of players that go that dont deserve it IMO. Just look at back in the day when we used to crack jokes about Ruben making it in every year. As I recall there were rumors that he always got voted in because he threw major celebratory bashes while he was there. Then theres the argument that JP cant stay healthy. Is it me or has he missed games in each of the last 2 seasons due to injury? Is it the same injury? Should we be so quick to assume that hell be fine in the future? And if thats the case can we question if he was really hurt or not, and just didnt want to get hurt in fear that it might ruin a big payday? There are just as many questions around JP as there would be revolving around a rookie, or Bell. And FYI, the coaches seemed to be very high on him as I recall.
Justice Posted April 9, 2009 Author Posted April 9, 2009 Lets try this. I happen to be a supporter of JP. I think he is a good player. Not great like everyone here seems to think as they stroke his epeen. But I hardly think JP is worth the 11-13million that he is asking/expecting before he plays a another snap. SIMPLE TRUTH.......Peters has not proved anything at all. He has had 1 good season in his NFL career. Im not getting into the argument that he made the last 2 Pro-Bowls. I think its more than obvious that the majority of people on this board will state that he didnt play nearly as bad last year as we make it out to be, but I think you would probobly get the same response if asked if he should have made the Pro-Bowl. Im sick of hearing the "NFL coaches, Players, Owners, Fans" voted him in crap. Because there are plenty of players that go that dont deserve it IMO. Just look at back in the day when we used to crack jokes about Ruben making it in every year. As I recall there were rumors that he always got voted in because he threw major celebratory bashes while he was there. Then theres the argument that JP cant stay healthy. Is it me or has he missed games in each of the last 2 seasons due to injury? Is it the same injury? Should we be so quick to assume that hell be fine in the future? And if thats the case can we question if he was really hurt or not, and just didnt want to get hurt in fear that it might ruin a big payday? There are just as many questions around JP as there would be revolving around a rookie, or Bell. And FYI, the coaches seemed to be very high on him as I recall. I'd rather use that kind of money on a Julius Peppers. Now there's a JP that deserves 11 to 13 million bucks a year.
mrags Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 I'd rather use that kind of money on a Julius Peppers. Now there's a JP that deserves 11 to 13 million bucks a year. Agreed, But thats about as realistic as one of us starting at the LT position.
DazedandConfused Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 After giving it some serious thought, I have decided that the Bills would be better off trading away our 11th pick and Jason Peters. The real value in this draft is in the twenties of the first round. Many great players can be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds as well. If we can acquire a first and a third for our 11th and a first and a second or a third for Peters we will have enough picks to fill the many holes that the Bills have on our roster. This scenario will give us, at the very least, two firsts a second a three third round picks. At the end of the day, stock piling picks will be the best thing the Bills can do. I agree that your strategy is a great way to win in the draft. However, this fan is more interested in winning football games than winning the draft. Maybe if I was Mel Kiper or spent too much time on fantasy leagues (rather than spending too much time on TSW) I would have a primary interest in winning the draft. Maybe if my primary interest was building for the future I would be looking to stockpile picks. However, when one considers: a. we need to make the passing game work now as we are only guaranteed a #2 WR with great NFL achievement for a year. b. we also need to get the pass pro together as the question about the once concussed Edwards is that he will not develop even if he survives running for his life c. Ralph ain't gonna live forever. The bottomline is that stockpiling picks is a bad strategy for collecting Ws in 2009 and like it or not more than ever before the future is now for this team, We are zero for this millenium in making the playoffs and showing Peters the money rather than both caving in to his desire for a big contract AND hurting the pass pro while a rookie LT learns to become a vet is a bad idea.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Lets try this. I happen to be a supporter of JP. I think he is a good player. Not great like everyone here seems to think as they stroke his epeen. But I hardly think JP is worth the 11-13million that he is asking/expecting before he plays a another snap. SIMPLE TRUTH.......Peters has not proved anything at all. He has had 1 good season in his NFL career. Im not getting into the argument that he made the last 2 Pro-Bowls. I think its more than obvious that the majority of people on this board will state that he didnt play nearly as bad last year as we make it out to be, but I think you would probobly get the same response if asked if he should have made the Pro-Bowl. Im sick of hearing the "NFL coaches, Players, Owners, Fans" voted him in crap. Because there are plenty of players that go that dont deserve it IMO. Just look at back in the day when we used to crack jokes about Ruben making it in every year. As I recall there were rumors that he always got voted in because he threw major celebratory bashes while he was there. Then theres the argument that JP cant stay healthy. Is it me or has he missed games in each of the last 2 seasons due to injury? Is it the same injury? Should we be so quick to assume that hell be fine in the future? And if thats the case can we question if he was really hurt or not, and just didnt want to get hurt in fear that it might ruin a big payday? There are just as many questions around JP as there would be revolving around a rookie, or Bell. And FYI, the coaches seemed to be very high on him as I recall. Spoken like a TRUE supporter.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Lets try this. I happen to be a supporter of JP. I think he is a good player. Not great like everyone here seems to think as they stroke his epeen. But I hardly think JP is worth the 11-13million that he is asking/expecting before he plays a another snap. SIMPLE TRUTH.......Peters has not proved anything at all. He has had 1 good season in his NFL career. Im not getting into the argument that he made the last 2 Pro-Bowls. I think its more than obvious that the majority of people on this board will state that he didnt play nearly as bad last year as we make it out to be, but I think you would probobly get the same response if asked if he should have made the Pro-Bowl. Im sick of hearing the "NFL coaches, Players, Owners, Fans" voted him in crap. Because there are plenty of players that go that dont deserve it IMO. Just look at back in the day when we used to crack jokes about Ruben making it in every year. As I recall there were rumors that he always got voted in because he threw major celebratory bashes while he was there. Then theres the argument that JP cant stay healthy. Is it me or has he missed games in each of the last 2 seasons due to injury? Is it the same injury? Should we be so quick to assume that hell be fine in the future? And if thats the case can we question if he was really hurt or not, and just didnt want to get hurt in fear that it might ruin a big payday? There are just as many questions around JP as there would be revolving around a rookie, or Bell. And FYI, the coaches seemed to be very high on him as I recall. Glad to see you know how to perpetuate the argument, but you didn't respond to my statement. I stated that if the Bills thought they could adequately replace JP he would be long gone, and that the trade advocates have no response to that reasoning, which you have also failed to provide. And to state that JP has more ?s than a rookie is preposterous. Seriously, do you people put even an ounce of critical thought into your posts before you make them?
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Oh yea..and "Let's dump JP and sign Julius Peppers" Brilliant. Just brilliant. You think spending 13 mil on an aged veteran who wants to play in a defensive system we don't run at a position he has never played is a better move than paying your pro bowl left tackle to play left tackle? My God, do you realize how stupid that sounds? Do you realize there is a reason neither pundits nor the Bills organization are not talking about doing this at all? We can win with our defense the way it is - i know we need help in the pass rush but the bottom line is that if our offense can consistently move the ball the way they did early last year the Bills will win games as is. Example: the first 6 games last year. I mean we held the mighty Patriots to 13 freaking points in the last game against them - if that isn't enough to win the problem can hardly be considered the D. Where teams beat the Bills was by double teaming Lee and stacking the box with 8 players, which we had no answer for. Now we do, and you idiots want to jeopardize that by trading away our best O-lineman and putting two rookies over there? My God, is there lead in the water where you live or what? I just can't understand how so many people can be so stupid...oh wait a minute...you formulate you opinions by watching ESPN. Explains everything.
mrags Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Glad to see you know how to perpetuate the argument, but you didn't respond to my statement. I stated that if the Bills thought they could adequately replace JP he would be long gone, and that the trade advocates have no response to that reasoning, which you have also failed to provide. And to state that JP has more ?s than a rookie is preposterous. Seriously, do you people put even an ounce of critical thought into your posts before you make them? Yeah, My response to your argument is that JP hasnt really proved anything other than 1 year of quality play. Then I went on a rant of how last years Pro-Bowl was a joke. My point is that 1 good year of play isnt anything to get an erection about. Especially considering his ?'s that are arguable. Lets ask this. If the Bills really thought he was that high caliber of player, and had no ?'s sorrounding his injuries, character, team chemistry/leadership dont you think they would just sign him? Im going to take the side of the Bills FO here considering they do this for a living and you probobly park cars in downtown Atlanta for a living. So back to my points so you can understand 1) Peters hasnt shown anything beyond 1 year of quality play and wouldnt be hard to replace especially since Walker played fine for him in his absence last season. 2) JP has shown over the last 2 years that he has questions with his health and cannot complete a season (FACT). 3) You work for Joe's Used Cars, and the Bills FO negotiates for a living and if they knew for a fact that they had a REAL Pro-Bowl/HOF player Im sure we woudlnt be talking about it because he would be standing right next to T.O. and Freddy J in the weight room right now.
Justice Posted April 9, 2009 Author Posted April 9, 2009 Oh yea..and "Let's dump JP and sign Julius Peppers" Brilliant. Just brilliant. You think spending 13 mil on an aged veteran who wants to play in a defensive system we don't run at a position he has never played is a better move than paying your pro bowl left tackle to play left tackle? My God, do you realize how stupid that sounds? Do you realize there is a reason neither pundits nor the Bills organization are not talking about doing this at all? We can win with our defense the way it is - i know we need help in the pass rush but the bottom line is that if our offense can consistently move the ball the way they did early last year the Bills will win games as is. Example: the first 6 games last year. I mean we held the mighty Patriots to 13 freaking points in the last game against them - if that isn't enough to win the problem can hardly be considered the D. Where teams beat the Bills was by double teaming Lee and stacking the box with 8 players, which we had no answer for. Now we do, and you idiots want to jeopardize that by trading away our best O-lineman and putting two rookies over there? My God, is there lead in the water where you live or what? I just can't understand how so many people can be so stupid...oh wait a minute...you formulate you opinions by watching ESPN. Explains everything. Where do I start with that brilliant post? You put it all together really well, too. All in one paragraph! Julius Peppers is worthy of $13 million, Peters isn't. Peppers can play DE in our system and he can play it very well. What I was merely saying is I would rather use that kind of money on a player like Peppers. Peppers can change a game all on his own. Peters, on the other hand, is nothing but a malcontent that hurt the Bills on the field with his bad play last year. You automatically assume he will return to '07 form and will be willing to give him 11 to $13 million a year to prove that? Not me. We held the Pats to 13pts, true, but the weather had a lot to do with that, but you're way too smart to figure that out on your own. I'll have you know that Trent Edwards struggled mightily against teams that used 6 men in coverage late last year, not just from stacking the box. The Bills actually ran the ball well at the end of the year.
Cornerville Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Yes. We need picks. We need to get rid of top notch LT's and do not pay them. We need picks so we can get validating from the draft experts to make us feel all 'warm and fuzzy' aside.
The Dean Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 I have yet to read this thread, but it keeps popping up to the top. I just keep seeing: "It would be a great idea if we trade Peters and our 11th overall., Let's load up on picks." Every time I see it, I think " It would be a great idea if we trade Peters? Really? Somebody thinks that's a GREAT idea?" I'm sure there is more too it, but I can't get past that initial thought.
Justice Posted April 9, 2009 Author Posted April 9, 2009 Yes. We need picks.We need to get rid of top notch LT's and do not pay them. We need picks so we can get validating from the draft experts to make us feel all 'warm and fuzzy' aside. Listen, JP has two years left on his deal. He is in no position to be making absurd contract demands. The Bills have him by the balls. They even went as far as offering him a reported $8.5million a year deal when they didn't have to. Peters should just take when he can get at this point and show up to the OTA's. I'm going on record as saying I would love to have Peters back. The problem is, that is appearing less and less likely at this point. There is no better time to move on than right BEFORE the draft. At least we will have a chance to replace him.
Justice Posted April 9, 2009 Author Posted April 9, 2009 I have yet to read this thread, but it keeps popping up to the top. I just keep seeing: "It would be a great idea if we trade Peters and our 11th overall., Let's load up on picks." Every time I see it, I think " It would be a great idea if we trade Peters? Really? Somebody thinks that's a GREAT idea?" I'm sure there is more too it, but I can't get past that initial thought. Nothing new here, but why does every thread started on the wall have to be like the first man walking on the moon?
streetcarp77 Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 QUOTE LT Oher LG Hangartner/Woods (he's most likely to be available in the third) C Hangartner/Woods RG Butler RT Walker This doesn't look bad to you? Look we aren't trying to win an ACC championship here pal. WTF are you smoking? I LOVE IT
renfruzetz Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 I think it's trade JP OR the pick. 11 is a great place to be in this draft. There's probably five guys guaranteed to go in the top ten. I would rather the Bills have their choice of trading down if Crabtree/Sanchez is available, Smith v. Oher, Raji v. Perla, Brown v. Ayers, etc. as opposed to simply taking who's left at 22.
Justice Posted April 9, 2009 Author Posted April 9, 2009 I think it's trade JP OR the pick. 11 is a great place to be in this draft. There's probably five guys guaranteed to go in the top ten. I would rather the Bills have their choice of trading down if Crabtree/Sanchez is available, Smith v. Oher, Raji v. Perla, Brown v. Ayers, etc. as opposed to simply taking who's left at 22. I concur. I would wait until our pick comes before making any moves.
Astrobot Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 After giving it some serious thought, I have decided that the Bills would be better off trading away our 11th pick and Jason Peters. The real value in this draft is in the twenties of the first round. Many great players can be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds as well. If we can acquire a first and a third for our 11th and a first and a second or a third for Peters we will have enough picks to fill the many holes that the Bills have on our roster. This scenario will give us, at the very least, two firsts a second a three third round picks. To be perfectly honest, I believe that all of the players that are worth taking at 11 have major question marks. The experts question Andre Smith's desire. It's not known if Orakpo and Maybin are able to play DE or 3-4 OLB. Crabtree has questions about his speed. Robert Ayers could only be a combine/senior bowl stud. Everrette Brown is too small to play DE and not athletic enough to play OLB in our defense. Is Pettigrew worth the eleventh pick? Cushing possibly used steroids. Here are some guys that can be available in the 20's of the first round. All of which have the makings to be good pros. Harvin, Jenkins, Mack, Oher, Maualuga, Jackson, Johnson, Darius Heyward-Bey, Peria Jerry, Vontae Davis, Larry English, Beanie Wells, and Hakeem Nicks. This is where the true values in the draft lie. Granted, not all of these guys are needs the Bills have, but many are. The possibilities are endless if the Bills can pull these trades off. We can end up with OT Oher or OL Mack and TE Pettigrew in the first and possibly DE Michael Johnson or DE Tyson Jackson in the second. We can then solidify the offensive line by selecting one of these guys to play guard, either Unger, Woods, Robinson, and Loadholt can end up falling to us in the third round. With our 2 remaining third rounders we can pick up a SS and a OLB, such as, Marcus Freeman, Sintim, and S Rashad Johnson. Here's what our O-Line can look like. Not so bad, if you ask me. LT Oher LG Hangartner/Woods (he's most likely to be available in the third) C Hangartner/Woods RG Butler RT Walker Add Pettigrew at TE to the mix and these guys should be stout on the line. Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT to get rid of Peters for an unknown, but he's starting to piss me off and that price tag is way too steep, especially after his '08 performance and the fact that the guy has TWO years remaining on his contract and isn't willing to take the very generous offer the Bills gave him even after having said all of that. Peters isn't worth it and this problem can become contagious. At the end of the day, stock piling picks will be the best thing the Bills can do. Here's a simulation from DraftTek on the trade (Peters to Philly) plus a tradedown (Detroit): 15 Buffalo Brian Cushing OLB43 USC 20 Buffalo Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma St 21 Buffalo Robert Ayers DE43 Tennessee 28 Buffalo Max Unger OG Oregon 42 Buffalo Ron Brace DT43 Boston College 46 Buffalo Sean Smith FS Utah 82 Buffalo Antoine Caldwell OC Alabama 85 Buffalo Gerald McRath ILB Southern Miss 110 Buffalo Michael Hamlin SS Clemson 147 Buffalo Tyronne Green OG Auburn 183 Buffalo Kenny McKinley WRF South Carolina 220 Buffalo Hunter Cantwell QB Louisville
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Yeah, My response to your argument is that JP hasnt really proved anything other than 1 year of quality play. Then I went on a rant of how last years Pro-Bowl was a joke. My point is that 1 good year of play isnt anything to get an erection about. Especially considering his ?'s that are arguable. Lets ask this. If the Bills really thought he was that high caliber of player, and had no ?'s sorrounding his injuries, character, team chemistry/leadership dont you think they would just sign him? Im going to take the side of the Bills FO here considering they do this for a living and you probobly park cars in downtown Atlanta for a living. First of all, Atlanta is not in south Georgia, so there goes yet another example of your flaming ignorance. Secondly, you are absolutely correct: the Bills definitely would sign him if they thought he was worth the money. After all, that's how they've managed to accumulate such a talented roster already! (because I'm uncertain that you would be able to recognize what seems to me blatantly obvious, that was sarcasm). I think the Bills would give him everything he is asking for if he would simply show up and do his job, because they realize what a valuable commodity he is. That being said, given his piss poor attitude and the Bills history of dealing with players like that, I think its pretty much a no brainer that he would be gone if they thought they could win without him. Also, seeing as the Bills have NOT traded him as of yet, then it would appear that their position is that they do not want to trade him. As far as I can tell, your position is that you want him to be traded, so don't sit their and pretend your opinion is in line with the Bills front office. You don't have to sit there and get mad because I pointed out how stupid and fallible your logic is. I can only make one assumption regarding anyone who advocates a course of action that will almost certainly lead to another losing season: you are a loser. So don't worry about my job and get back to inhaling asbestos for $12 an hour. Also, I read your first post, the one in which you initially started spewing out stupidity like you were choking on it, and it was unnecessary to repeat what was said. The point is your opinion of JP is utterly irrelevant, if the Bills FO thought they could win without him, he would be gone, and I am saying that this logic CANNOT be denied. After two posts in which you simply regurgitated the same bull-sh1t content you have failed to debunk my logic. And I am not asking you to debunk it, I am saying it can't be done. You can list you special-ed poster boy logic all day long - my point is that there is no argument that can debunk my logic, and you sir certainly aren't going to be the visionary philosopher who can find one that does.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Here's a simulation from DraftTek on the trade (Peters to Philly) plus a tradedown (Detroit):15 Buffalo Brian Cushing OLB43 USC 20 Buffalo Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma St 21 Buffalo Robert Ayers DE43 Tennessee 28 Buffalo Max Unger OG Oregon 42 Buffalo Ron Brace DT43 Boston College 46 Buffalo Sean Smith FS Utah 82 Buffalo Antoine Caldwell OC Alabama 85 Buffalo Gerald McRath ILB Southern Miss 110 Buffalo Michael Hamlin SS Clemson 147 Buffalo Tyronne Green OG Auburn 183 Buffalo Kenny McKinley WRF South Carolina 220 Buffalo Hunter Cantwell QB Louisville So they think the Bills are going to end up with 4 first round picks? LOL. Seriously I wouldn't even repeat this stuff.
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