Bills were in serious discussions with Philly about Peters

[PromoTheRobot]

Part of running a business is analyzing the market for your key talent and then keeping that key talent happy with both the operating environment and their comp package. We're talking 11% -- the difference between 9 and 10 Million and the difference between 54 and 60 million over 6 years. One playoff game makes up the entire pot of revenue.

 

I hope you never run a franchise or a business--you will lag behind because you let difference makers go. Again, his peers think he is the best in the business...you can debate whether that's valid all day long--but it is what it is.

Wouldn't part of analyzing that talent include judging whether someone will actually show up and give you maximum effort? Peters could be the greatest LT who ever lived, but if he won't play like it for you, why would you pay him?

 

PTR

[The Dean]

Flozell Adams: $43M/6 years http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ll.7e04cef.html

Michael Roos: $43M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3186

Branden Albert (#5 overall pick): $51M/6 years http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/722077.html

David Stewart: $38.9M/6 years http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/conten...NFL&id=3311

Joe Thomas (#3 overall pick): $42.5M/5 years http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950674

Jordan Gross was noted in my above post. (did you miss the part "name one not named Jordan Gross and Jake Long"?)

Stacy Andrews: $40M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFl&id=2834

 

Only Thomas and Albert - both top five draft picks - make over $8M a year when bonuses are pro-rated, and barely. The phrase "good to great left tackles make $8-11M dollars a year" is just flat wrong.

 

Your numbers are wrong. They are based on non-allocated signing bonuses. Peters wants to be the highest paid lineman in the game which would put him at about $60M/5 years (Jake Long signed a $57.5M/5 year contract).

 

And thanks for ignoring all the tackles I mentioned. Since you won't do the research, let me do it for you:

 

Walter Jones: $52.5M/7 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...=nfl&id=539

Matt Light: $27.3M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFL&id=1085

D'Brickashaw Furgueson: $37.5M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3620

Bryant McKinnie: $48.5M/7 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFl&id=1210

Ryan Clady: $14.75M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...nfl&id=4616

Joe Staley: $8M/5 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=4213

Tony Ugoh: $4M/4 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFl&id=4208

 

 

Why do you consider Rotoworld a preferred source over McPaper? A fantasy football website, vs a national crappy paper. These are just all reports, anyway, as most teams don't release official numbers...or do they?

 

I would use the USA list, as it itemizes THIS YEAR'S salary and bonuses. Your sources simply cite the entire contract package, not yearly salaries and bonuses.

 

I'd like to hear Clumpy weigh in on this.

[Leonidas]

Part of running a business is analyzing the market for your key talent and then keeping that key talent happy with both the operating environment and their comp package. We're talking 11% -- the difference between 9 and 10 Million and the difference between 54 and 60 million over 6 years. One playoff game makes up the entire pot of revenue.

 

So you're saying with Peters we make the playoffs, without him we don't? Seriously??

 

 

his peers think he is the best in the business...you can debate whether that's valid all day long--but it is what it is.

 

Too bad the stats suggest otherwise.

 

 

 

Pace and Ogden had been making 9-10 million for a few years. Add Long to that at 11+ million last year and now Gross at 10+ million and if you are getting top 2-3 LT money, which Peters wants, it's 10+ million a year.

 

Peters is nowhere near Pace and Ogden. To say otherwise is pure stupidity.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Also, what will motivate Peters to play his best football if he is rewarded a huge contract for showing up to camp out of shape, skipping off season workouts, and holding out in training camp? Also dont say for the fact that he would be cut if he sucks because A) I doubt the Bills would take the cap hit and B) He knows he would be owed some good money if he was cut.

[The Dean]

Wouldn't part of analyzing that talent include judging whether someone will actually show up and give you maximum effort? Peters could be the greatest LT who ever lived, but if he won't play like it for you, why would you pay him?

 

PTR

 

 

Because he showed up and played hard for the Bills every year, except last year, when he was severely underpaid, and held out.

 

Because, by offering him $8 Mill +, the Bills don't seem to think that's an issue. They have already demonstrated they believe he is a top LT, who deserves big money.

 

The truth is, you never know if a player will show up and play hard, even if they have for 10 years...and you have NO idea if a draft pick will ever show up and work hard.

[Leonidas]

Why do you consider Rotoworld a preferred source over McPaper? A fantasy football website, vs a national crappy paper. These are just all reports, anyway, as most teams don't release official numbers...or do they?

 

I would use the USA list, as it itemizes THIS YEAR'S salary and bonuses. Your sources simply cite the entire contract package, not yearly salaries and bonuses.

 

I'd like to hear Clumpy weigh in on this.

 

*sigh* seriously, Dean? put in the player name then "contract" and see what comes up. On each case, Rotoworld coincides with all the other sources (Branden Albert's contract was the only one that took some digging).

[JoeF]

Wouldn't part of analyzing that talent include judging whether someone will actually show up and give you maximum effort? Peters could be the greatest LT who ever lived, but if he won't play like it for you, why would you pay him?

 

PTR

 

He took himself, with Mouse's help, from an undrafted FA Tight End to a pro bowl LT. What in that indicates he will tank it when he gets paid?

 

He's already been paid above any expectation he could of had coming out of college--he still gave effort. We aren't exactly talking about someone who entered the NFL as a first rounder. He's earned what he is gotten up to now. Why wouldn't he continue? It seems much more likely he would continue the path he is on...even when he is paid.

 

Any contract is a crap shoot--but we are talking about investing in Peters similar to our investment in Dockery--if you count the inflation in the cap...we took care of that mistake in 2 years...our cash to the cap strategy make these cuts have very little impact. This guy is an elite athlete for his size...remember the punt block, and TD recovery against the Bengals...typical LT just don't do that sh--. He has quicks--he has reflex, strength. We built a LT--let's not farm team him to someone else over a relative pittance of money.

[stuckincincy]

Having a QB making quicker decisions might help with any needs for OTs to maintain longish blocks.

[dave mcbride]

So you're saying with Peters we make the playoffs, without him we don't? Seriously??

 

 

 

 

Too bad the stats suggest otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

Peters is nowhere near Pace and Ogden. To say otherwise is pure stupidity.

Did you watch Pace and Ogden the past 3 years? Peters was a significantly better player.

[ans4e64]

For the love of god, it just makes me sick how much love there is on this board for Jason Peters. Why do all you supporters of him think he is so GREAT? What on earth has he done to make you feel so warm and fuzzy about him? Our offense has been horrible every year he has started on the O line. Is it all his fault? Of course not. Did he contribute to that? Yes he did. His play was AWFUL last year-game in and game out. Is he worth more than his current contract? Probably. Is he worth close to 10 million/year? NO WAY. He is not a LEADER on this team. His holdup cost the team bigtime last year and they know it.

 

Most of you have this view of the Bills FO as being totally incompetent. And our record over this decade has not been good. But signing Jason Peters to a new contract will not make or break this team, period. The guy is not tough, and does not dominate on every play. And he is not a team player. Why do we want to pay someone like that so much money? I am sure all things being equal the Bills would like to keep Peters at a reasonable cost. But given his erratic play, his difficult agent, his unreasonable salary demands, and his unwillingness to be part of the team, I think the Bills will trade him for the best deal they can get. Does that mean it is a bad move on their part? NO WAY!!! There are other guys on this team and in the draft who can play O line fairly well I am sure. And they will be with the team the entire offseason. Building continuity is everything on the O line. Peters is gone. Lets hope for the best deal and stop this talk about making new holes to fill. The way this offense has not performed, everyone save our two RB's should be available to move if the price is right. Would anyone be upset if we got rid of the entire O line from last year, our QB, TE's and all of last year's receivers other than Lee? I didn't think so.

 

So spare us all the rhetoric about how Peters is so good. There is absolutely nothing to support that giving him a ridiculous extension's positives outweigh the negatives.

 

Great post.

[The Dean]

Peters is nowhere near Pace and Ogden. To say otherwise is pure stupidity.

 

Since Ogden is retired and Pace is in serious decline, I'd say it's fairly obvious that Peters is better than both, right now. But, since you seem to think a guy who is retired can contribute more than Peters, I guess you are less than objective (or genuine) on this topic.

[Magox]

Since Ogden is retired and Pace is in serious decline, I'd say it's fairly obvious that Peters is better than both, right now. But, since you seem to think a guy who is retired can contribute more than Peters, I guess you are less than objective (or genuine) on this topic.

Didn't Ogden allow the most sacks as a LT, TWICE in his lifetime?

[The Dean]

*sigh* seriously, Dean? put in the player name then "contract" and see what comes up. On each case, Rotoworld coincides with all the other sources (Branden Albert's contract was the only one that took some digging).

 

 

Which tells me they are all based on the initial contract report, and aren't specific to years and bonuses. Typical of lazy reporting, actually,

 

EDIT: I mean aren't specific BY year, as to salary and bonuses. The more detailed USA chart, suggests extra work went into collecting that information.

[Leonidas]

Because he showed up and played hard for the Bills every year, except last year, when he was severely underpaid, and held out.

 

Because, by offering him $8 Mill +, the Bills don't seem to think that's an issue. They have already demonstrated they believe he is a top LT, who deserves big money.

 

The truth is, you never know if a player will show up and play hard, even if they have for 10 years...and you have NO idea if a draft pick will ever show up and work hard.

 

So we should reward that type of behavior with a mega-contract?? What does that say to other players on the team who may feel underpaid?? Or to the same player in the future when he feels the same way??

 

Because, by offering him $8 Mill +, the Bills don't seem to think that's an issue. They have already demonstrated they believe he is a top LT, who deserves big money.

 

The truth is, you never know if a player will show up and play hard, even if they have for 10 years...and you have NO idea if a draft pick will ever show up and work hard.

 

So what happens in two years when he's 29 - at the prime of his career - and the top 10 draft picks from '09 and '10 are making more than him? Who's to say he won't do it again? He's certainly shown he's capable.

[JoeF]

So you're saying with Peters we make the playoffs, without him we don't? Seriously??

 

 

 

 

Too bad the stats suggest otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

Peters is nowhere near Pace and Ogden. To say otherwise is pure stupidity.

 

I am saying one playoff game makes up the difference over six years between 9 and 10 million a year. Not saying anything about our playoff chances.....One more game in Toronto also makes up the difference...over time its a mice nuts amount.

 

Stats versus vote of his peers who actually play against him...hmmmm which do I think has more validity?

 

Give me your analysis of the relative merits and drawbacks of Pace vs. Ogden vs. Peters...you seem to be an expert in LT evaluations--We would all be enlightened.

[mrags]

Do the research here because "some" is in actuality very few.

 

That's 10 LT's from 4 complete drafts. More than 90 players were drafted at OT in that time. So the odds of a pick becoming outstanding at the position are slim to none. No one beyond the second round has been even above average.

 

If its true what you say about the odds of picking and becoming outstanding at the position are slim to none, and that no one beyond the second round has ever been average then why so high on Peters? Hmmmmm...... Doesnt Peters fall under both of those catagories?

 

For all you Peters Lovers out there:

We picked him up as an UDFA TE, converted him to the position of RT, then LT, and should take sole resposibility for acknowledging his talent in the first place.

 

And who really thinks he belonged in the Pro-Bowl last year? If you really did you should jump off a bridge with a frozen over river at the bottom. Peters hasnt really shown us anything. He was great for 1 year at LT. Thats it. End of list. He didnt prove anything last year except he knows how to hold out. And its looking the same this year.

 

Can we please end the experiment? He doesnt want to be here, and IMO theres no way hes proved to be paid highest LT in the league. If he played last year the way he did 2 years ago, I would say you have an arguement.

[rpcolosi]

Ok, something needs to be said here. Are the majority of the people on this board clinically insane? You have a 2 time pro bowl left tackle on the team, who is under contract for 2 more freakin years and you want to trade him????

 

Did he deserve to go to the pro bowl last year? Maybe not. But I'm sick of seeing this stupid "sacks allowed" pseudo-stat that everyone has got their panties in a bunch over. You do realize that it is not an official stat kept by the NFL because it is way too ambiguous. And please don't forget that he was playing next to dockery the pylon who was atrocious this year. The only time I remember him getting burned legitimately was the Edwards fumble against jacksonville (his first game back). The JP fumble against the jets that everyone places on Peters was a perfectly timed CB blitz and would have been tough for anyone to stop. Not to mention JP held onto the ball way too long.

 

Facts:

 

 

1. He did not have nearly as bad a year as most people here believe

 

2. He is the Bills' most valuable player by a wide margin. Please don't argue this. Think of what everyone is throwing around as to what we could get for him and see if any other player on the roster could even come close to that

 

3. The most important factor...the team still has all the leverage here. He is under contract for two more years at a serious discount. It would be completely asinine to trade him

 

4. Me saying he is awesome doesn't mean much but does the fact Jason Taylor said that he's the toughest lineman he's faced mean anything??

 

5. He wants as much money as he can get. As fans this bothers us, but this is his life...it's important to note the distinction. Like most people, he wants to maximize his earning power.

 

6. Save the crap about how he should take a hometown discount because the bills took a chance on him. They did so because they saw he had talent and could potentially help their team. Give whoever pushed for him (Bobby April) a raise if anything, not punish Peters. It wasn't like it was done out of charity.

 

7. Him not attending training camp is being overblown quite a bit. I'll bet the nagging knee injury that never gets mentioned had more to do with him not being as dominant as the year before. He didn't even partake in the pro bowl because of it and that was about two months after he had shut it down for the year. It stands to reason that it was more serious than anyone let on.

 

8. As much as a lot of you hate him, he likes Buffalo. Said it himself after the game in Toronto how much they missed the fan support. Everyone else was being diplomatic except him. I appreciated that (and I'm from Toronto!).

 

9. Best thing for the Bills to do would be to pay him. Contracts are just going to keep going up. The most economical, however, would be to refuse to renegotiate and let him play for 2 years at his current salary (and he would play, that's almost a guarantee..no way he sits out the first 9 games or whatever the number is) and try to find another LT in the draft in the meantime.

 

 

I really hope this story about them shopping Peters is untrue. The front office can't afford to be this stupid, especially not this year with all the buzz they've generated. The Bills offense can be good this year but it will all unravel if Peters is gone.

 

 

thanks for being complete dead on with this. Could NOT agree more. He is our best player, and he should be paid as such. get it done Ralphy boy...

[The Dean]

So we should reward that type of behavior with a mega-contract?? What does that say to other players on the team who may feel underpaid?? Or to the same player in the future when he feels the same way??

 

Again, that train has left the station. The Bills are already offering him $8 million plus. He's not getting the offer because he held out. He's getting the offer because they think he's great. The negotiation is tougher because he held out. I think the contracts to Evans and Stroud show other players that it is easier to a big deal done with the Bills by NOT holding out. Of course, the message every player should get is: be great on the field, and you will be rewarded.

 

 

 

So what happens in two years when he's 29 - at the prime of his career - and the top 10 draft picks from '09 and '10 are making more than him? Who's to say he won't do it again? He's certainly shown he's capable.

 

Welcome to the world of professional sports. If Peters holds out again after a couple of years (a very real possibility), the team can go one of a few ways, including:

 

They can do what they always did for Bruce Smith, and keep paying him more...IF he plays at the highest level.

 

They can trade him, or cut him (contracts only work one-way in the NFL).

 

Because his holding out again has to be considered a possibility, the Bills need to be careful how the contract is structured, and with the size of the signing bonus. They should also be developing his replacement, just in case. If they had a replacement now, this whole situation could play out much differently.

[richNjoisy]

For the love of god, it just makes me sick how much love there is on this board for Jason Peters. Why do all you supporters of him think he is so GREAT? What on earth has he done to make you feel so warm and fuzzy about him? Our offense has been horrible every year he has started on the O line. Is it all his fault? Of course not. Did he contribute to that? Yes he did. His play was AWFUL last year-game in and game out. Is he worth more than his current contract? Probably. Is he worth close to 10 million/year? NO WAY. He is not a LEADER on this team. His holdup cost the team bigtime last year and they know it.

 

Most of you have this view of the Bills FO as being totally incompetent. And our record over this decade has not been good. But signing Jason Peters to a new contract will not make or break this team, period. The guy is not tough, and does not dominate on every play. And he is not a team player. Why do we want to pay someone like that so much money? I am sure all things being equal the Bills would like to keep Peters at a reasonable cost. But given his erratic play, his difficult agent, his unreasonable salary demands, and his unwillingness to be part of the team, I think the Bills will trade him for the best deal they can get. Does that mean it is a bad move on their part? NO WAY!!! There are other guys on this team and in the draft who can play O line fairly well I am sure. And they will be with the team the entire offseason. Building continuity is everything on the O line. Peters is gone. Lets hope for the best deal and stop this talk about making new holes to fill. The way this offense has not performed, everyone save our two RB's should be available to move if the price is right. Would anyone be upset if we got rid of the entire O line from last year, our QB, TE's and all of last year's receivers other than Lee? I didn't think so.

 

So spare us all the rhetoric about how Peters is so good. There is absolutely nothing to support that giving him a ridiculous extension's positives outweigh the negatives.

 

 

Great post. I agree 100%

[Leonidas]

Did you watch Pace and Ogden the past 3 years? Peters was a significantly better player.

 

Since Ogden is retired and Pace is in serious decline, I'd say it's fairly obvious that Peters is better than both, right now. But, since you seem to think a guy who is retired can contribute more than Peters, I guess you are less than objective (or genuine) on this topic.

 

I assumed he meant during their primes. Pace makes $5M/year, and Ogden is probably collecting social security. Sorry if I didn't clarify my statement - I meant Peters doesn't touch either of them when they were in the prime of their respective careers. I thought that was obvious.

 

 

Stats versus vote of his peers who actually play against him...hmmmm which do I think has more validity?

 

Give me your analysis of the relative merits and drawbacks of Pace vs. Ogden vs. Peters...you seem to be an expert in LT evaluations--We would all be enlightened.

 

So since your argument hit a dead end, you're going to just be an !@#$? Nice way to have a discussion.

 

Orlando Pace is a future Hall of Famer. So is Ogden (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=3433434). Are we really having this discussion, who's better: Jason Peters or Pace/Ogden in their prime???