Obama is a Windbag

[Chef Jim]

Same here. It's the Obama mantra. "Only the government can fix this."

 

I think his point is, or at least should be, is the government tries to fix thing so they can keep their phony baloney jobs. Unfortunately they're made up of the same "public" that the dog says can't be trusted. They also try to please too many people and are scared shiitless of upsetting a potential voter. So because of these things the government tends to go in too many different directions trying to please everyone that they just come across as schizophrenic and !@#$ everything up.

 

For anyone with a brain it's quite laughable at times. And that both sides.

[Kelly the Dog]

Same here. It's the Obama mantra. "Only the government can fix this."

Yeah, why have the stupid government at all. Talk about delusional.

 

You didn't think the government had to step in during the bank crisis last fall?

[blzrul]

I loved his speech to Turkey.

 

 

Can someone help clarify for me the strain we've had with Turkey lately? Did we do something to piss off the people of Turkey lately? Was it our arrogance again? Were we arrogant toward Turkey? I missed that part of history.

We wanted to use Turkish air bases for troop/supply movement and bumped them to the coalition of the unwilling when they told us to pound salt.

[IDBillzFan]

Yeah, why have the stupid government at all. Talk about delusional.

 

You didn't think the government had to step in during the bank crisis last fall?

The government would not have had to step in during the bank crisis if it didn't help create the bank crisis.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Sorry man I stopped right at the point you said the public can't be trusted to do the right thing but the government can. You're !@#$ing delusional.

 

As sad as you may see it, it is true... I must be delusional too... Maybe in the end BOTH the public and gov't can't be trusted is the true answer. IMO, I would rather have one entity working together on what is agreed to be right than a million individuals doing what they THINK is right. Those million individuals will have a million different takes on what is right. Again, maybe my thinking is delusional and trusting, but it it surley not paranoid towards the gov't. On the other hand, it is the exact opposite towards the public. I just don't have faith in people's TOTAL free will and there are plenty more examples of just how phucked up one's free will can be and harming towards the group in general. The bottom line is that free will needs to be kept in check to a certain extent and that is why the gov't exists the way it does. This is what a compassionate society understands. This what a caring society understands. Am I really to trust you and you me? That is where the gov't steps in to mediate. We in turn are the one's that keep the gov't in check.

[Kelly the Dog]

The government would not have had to step in during the bank crisis if it didn't help create the bank crisis.

It did. And a lot of it was because of DE-regulating. And the public, left alone, was even more irresponsible than the government was, which was my entire point. The poor, the middle class and the rich... everyone. The banker, the mortgage guy, the wall street guy. The poor person that should have been renting not owning. The person that couldn't afford a second home but wanted one because his neighbor had one. The speculator that thought he could turn over a bunch quickly.

[ExiledInIllinois]

The government would not have had to step in during the bank crisis if it didn't help create the bank crisis.

 

And in roughly 80 years, the gov't has a pretty good track record... We haven't been going through speculative panics every few years as we did during almost the first 3/4 of our country's existence.

 

Nothing is pretty perfect... and what you are asking for is perfection... The problem the gov't screwed up with is after +50 years since the 1929 the gov't trusted enough to go down the deregulation road... Bad, bad mistake. And to quote Rev. Wright: "The chickens came home to roost."

[ExiledInIllinois]

It did. And a lot of it was because of DE-regulating. And the public, left alone, was even more irresponsible than the government was, which was my entire point. The poor, the middle class and the rich... everyone. The banker, the mortgage guy, the wall street guy. The poor person that should have been renting not owning. The person that couldn't afford a second home but wanted one because his neighbor had one. The speculator that thought he could turn over a bunch quickly.

 

 

Exactly my point... The road down deregulation which started for political gain and to assuage the the masses who had generationally forget the pains their grandparents went through. There is plenty of balme to go around with both controlling political parties for using this very powerful political tool.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Kelly, people don't like to be controlled or the thought of being controlled... Who really does? Yet, the thought of it really pumps and infuriates some people. That is a very mighty tool that politicians can use to gain power. IMO, the last 30 or so years really proved how a generation could harness that ability and sway people down the road which our nation has been lead.

[IDBillzFan]

It did. And a lot of it was because of DE-regulating. And the public, left alone, was even more irresponsible than the government was, which was my entire point. The poor, the middle class and the rich... everyone. The banker, the mortgage guy, the wall street guy. The poor person that should have been renting not owning. The person that couldn't afford a second home but wanted one because his neighbor had one. The speculator that thought he could turn over a bunch quickly.

Many of these bad loans would not have been permitted had various members of the government not PUSHED for it. Everyone knows Fannie and Freddie were pushed to ease lending requirements, but the true issue came to a head when everyone who pushed them to make the bad loans DENIED F&F were in trouble. And yet you think it's the public that can't be trusted.

 

And what of GM? Why fire the CEO and leave the union contracts in tact, when everyone knows the union contracts are a good reason for GM's demise. (Please understand that I am not blaming the unions here. GM agreed to the contracts. This is a mistake for which GM should be held responsible.) But had the govenrment simply pushed them to go through bankruptcy, the contracts would be voided, restructured, and GM would be on its way out of a hole instead of the government throwing MORE of OUR money into the hole when everyone STILL knows that bankruptcy is coming. But no...we take over GM, back warranties, guarantee the value of the cars and leave the union contracts alone. The government can throw our money at the problem, but the public is too stupid to be trusted.

 

And what of health care? How can ANYONE actually believe that a government as big, power-hungry and corrupt as ours can actually RUN health care efficiently? It's laughable at best, but the laughter turns to sadness when we realize we're about to put a $650 billion down payment on a concept. And the more freebies you give to the public, the more dependent the public becomes on those freebies...and not only do the freebies never go away, it's been proven time and again that these freebies/entitlements are handed down from one generation to the next. So people become lazy and apathetic because the government has taken away any need for them to be creative, inventive, or purposeful, and then they stand this group of apathetic people in front of the world and say, again, "You see? You can't trust these people! Government must help you!"

 

And what of illegals. Yes, you arrest them, and YES you lock down the border. Who the hell do you think is a giant drain on the very resources some American's need to get by? The very people who don't contribute to the pot. It's maddening. They can get here legally. Make them do it legally, and keep throwing their asses out until they get it right. Build a !@#$ing wall. Shut them down. You just can't keep letting these people in, letting them work, giving them a free pass on paying taxes, and then turn to Americans and tell them that THEY need to pick up the tab. And yet, again, it's the public that can't be trusted.

 

All of this is increased government control of the lower to middle class by making everyone more dependent on the government. I hate it. Absolutely hate it. And can not figure out how ANY person who has ANY shred of independence can not see precisely what is happening. We're not perfect. We're flawed. Everyone is flawed. But the government can not fix these flaws. It can't. And I resent the fact that it suddenly thinks it can.

 

The uber-convservative in me is suddenly being unleashed. The more I learn what it is I truly expect from my country (and what my country should expect from me), the more I am pissed about what is going on. And I really don't give a shiit if you or any one else thinks it's pathetic.

[blzrul]

If Obama is a windbag, what does that make DCT?

[Kelly the Dog]

The only difference is you blame everything on the government and I blame half on the government and half on the people (the above example of the economic crisis which I blame a little more on the public than the government because so many people made bad decisions). It's the same argument I have with people about Hollywood. The people that run the business and decide which shows and movies to make are such shameless whores that they will sell the people anything they will eat. It just so happens that the people want to eat crappy fast food, so that is what they will be fed. Sorry, but that I blame more on the people even though both sides are wrong and at fault. You act like there is nothing the government does that the public couldnt do better. Frankly, I believe what Darin does, the only reason most people are alive is because it's illegal to shoot them. If you let the public run free the bad actors will screw you as much or more than the government will. That doesn't mean the government is right or good, it only means the public can't be trusted either. Why do you think you lock your car or don't let your kids out alone?

[IDBillzFan]

The only difference is you blame everything on the government and I blame half on the government and half on the people (the above example of the economic crisis which I blame a little more on the public than the government because so many people made bad decisions). It's the same argument I have with people about Hollywood. The people that run the business and decide which shows and movies to make are such shameless whores that they will sell the people anything they will eat. It just so happens that the people want to eat crappy fast food, so that is what they will be fed. Sorry, but that I blame more on the people even though both sides are wrong and at fault. You act like there is nothing the government does that the public couldnt do better. Frankly, I believe what Darin does, the only reason most people are alive is because it's illegal to shoot them. If you let the public run free the bad actors will screw you as much or more than the government will. That doesn't mean the government is right or good, it only means the public can't be trusted either. Why do you think you lock your car or don't let your kids out alone?

I'm not sure how you got the idea that I blame everything on the government. My concern is that government helps create problems, pins the blame on others so they can keep their jobs, and then moves forward to screw things up more by taking actions that ultimately create more problems. I've also said repeatedly that I have no idea how anyone could B word about a bad loan they got, and act like they had no idea the loan would be bad. It's irresponsible on the part of the person who took out the loan, and PRECISELY why I did not want to bail out the banks OR the people. I also completely agree with your example about Hollywood. How could I support capitalism if I didn't support Hollywood's success in giving people what they want. It's my choice to ignore stuff like "American Idol."

 

What I believe is that less government is needed, not more. Unfortunately I'm watching government grow in ridiculous leaps and bounds, to a large extent because of its plan to take over things like banks, car makers and health care, and it makes me sick to my stomach. The difference is (as an example), I can turn off "American Idol," and I can take responsibility for my own mortgage, but it would appear that when it comes to something like nationalized health care, I may have no choice. I will be subjected to worse health care than I currently have because someone thinks it's easier to ruin health care for 82% of the country to appease a full 18% who don't.

 

In the end, we just think have different ideas in terms of who holds more responsibility. But if you make people be accountable for their own messes, and not bail them out with money from people who DON'T screw up (which actually promotes more screwing up because there is that safety net) you will ultimately cut down on the number of people who make their own messes.

 

Personal accountability. You screwed it up. You fix it. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm not sure how you got the idea that I blame everything on the government.

Ummm... because I was quoting a post where you brought up the mortgage problem and blamed it on the government, the car companies and blamed it on the government, health care and blamed it on the government, illegals and blamed it on the government, middle class and poor people and blamed it on the government, and the post before that was the bank crisis and you blamed it on the government.

[IDBillzFan]

Ummm... because I was quoting a post where you brought up the mortgage problem and blamed it on the government, the car companies and blamed it on the government, health care and blamed it on the government, illegals and blamed it on the government, middle class and poor people and blamed it on the government, and the post before that was the bank crisis and you blamed it on the government.

Excellent job, Mr. Gibbs. Way to misinterpret.

[OCinBuffalo]

Of course, you apparently can't read.

 

I said the public is as bad as the government, you can't trust them to do the right thing either. But the government has to step in at times, like in the fall when the economic system was about to collapse. You remember, the time when all you money guys said if you don't fix this we are totally fukked?

They may remember the "fix this" part, but face facts: nobody remembers saying that we should drop 10 trillion on the nutjob, far-left inflation machine. This spending is not stimulus, nor does it do anything to fix Wall Street, nor does it do anything to prevent meddling with markets, both from the greedy a-hole, roguish behavior in the private sector, or, more importantly, keeping the Barney Franks and Chris Dodds from meddling with markets from the public sector.

 

"Fixing" the engine of capitalism means what it says and needs to be confined to that engine itself. The rest of this is nonsense and you know it. Cut the crap already and just say: we wanted to spend a ton of money on programs we think will make things better. Own up to what is really happening here and stop this lame attempt at pretending otherwise.

But I also said that the government in our history has done a lot of things good, too. Which it has. It's very likely the best government in the history of the world.

If it's very likely the best government in the world, then why should we tolerate any attempt at f'ing with it? Reducing it, or increasing it, by your own admission, is a bad idea, since it's current form = the best.

AND I said I think we should have 33-66% LESS government across the board.

Well, then you simply cannot be an Obama supporter, in this universe, or in any other. This view DIRECTLY contradicts Obama's MAIN agenda for government. By definition, you should have supported McCain, who wanted to cut spending across the board, thereby reducing the inflationary effect of it. He was the only guy who could cut government 33-66% across the board, or at least even approach those #s. Sooo...who's left?

 

Are you and Alaska D gonna hang out now? Ready to join the rest of the "cool" kids in the Ron Paul A/V club? (Just pickin' Darin )

[GG]

They may remember the "fix this" part, but face facts: nobody remembers saying that we should drop 10 trillion on the nutjob, far-left inflation machine. This spending is not stimulus, nor does it do anything to fix Wall Street, nor does it do anything to prevent meddling with markets, both from the greedy a-hole, roguish behavior in the private sector, or, more importantly, keeping the Barney Franks and Chris Dodds from meddling with markets from the public sector.

 

"Fixing" the engine of capitalism means what it says and needs to be confined to that engine itself. The rest of this is nonsense and you know it. Cut the crap already and just say: we wanted to spend a ton of money on programs we think will make things better. Own up to what is really happening here and stop this lame attempt at pretending otherwise.

 

Yeah, what he said. There's a world of difference of using massive capital to try fixing the part that actually broke, instead of using the opportunity to fire up the hyperinflation machine.

[IDBillzFan]

"Fixing" the engine of capitalism means what it says and needs to be confined to that engine itself. The rest of this is nonsense and you know it. Cut the crap already and just say: we wanted to spend a ton of money on programs we think will make things better. Own up to what is really happening here and stop this lame attempt at pretending otherwise.

I'm honestly starting to think that Obama is being railroaded into all this spending, and he's basically just an ass-puppet to the Reid/Pelosi/Frank shittstorm. They got what they wanted, now it's time to send Barry around to make speeches while this trio of nutbags do their own bidding.

 

Barry, sweetheart, bubbeleh...I know you're in a hurry to get home, but why don't you swing by Turkey. Y'know, things have been VEERRRRY strained between us, and they could use a shot of the Big O and Princess Di Redux. Tell your wife to pick up some Jimmy Choo's on the house. We all know how Bad Lieutenant loves his Jimmy Choo's. And your wife will look faaabulous, darling. Just faaaabulous. Cal me. We'll do lunch when you get back.

[Kelly the Dog]

They may remember the "fix this" part, but face facts: nobody remembers saying that we should drop 10 trillion on the nutjob, far-left inflation machine. This spending is not stimulus, nor does it do anything to fix Wall Street, nor does it do anything to prevent meddling with markets, both from the greedy a-hole, roguish behavior in the private sector, or, more importantly, keeping the Barney Franks and Chris Dodds from meddling with markets from the public sector.

 

"Fixing" the engine of capitalism means what it says and needs to be confined to that engine itself. The rest of this is nonsense and you know it. Cut the crap already and just say: we wanted to spend a ton of money on programs we think will make things better. Own up to what is really happening here and stop this lame attempt at pretending otherwise.

 

If it's very likely the best government in the world, then why should we tolerate any attempt at f'ing with it? Reducing it, or increasing it, by your own admission, is a bad idea, since it's current form = the best.

 

Well, then you simply cannot be an Obama supporter, in this universe, or in any other. This view DIRECTLY contradicts Obama's MAIN agenda for government. By definition, you should have supported McCain, who wanted to cut spending across the board, thereby reducing the inflationary effect of it. He was the only guy who could cut government 33-66% across the board, or at least even approach those #s. Sooo...who's left?

 

Are you and Alaska D gonna hang out now? Ready to join the rest of the "cool" kids in the Ron Paul A/V club? (Just pickin' Darin )

1] All of his spending is not intended to be stimulus and he never said it was. Only some of it is stimulus. Some of it is stopgap. Some of it is set for the mid-term and some of it for the long term. Frankly, I like that approach, simply because it's stuff that I think needs permanent fixing and things we as a country regardless of party have neglected. You may not agree but I think we need a lot of spending on infrastructure, on power grids, on education and on a new renewable energy policy. That COULD be money well spent depending on how it is spent and utilized.

 

2] When I say I think we should cut government spending by 33% and then see if we can cut another 33%, that doesn't at all mean that I think we shouldn't spend money on the above things. It only means I think that we waste so much money that we could slice a third off the top of all programs and get the same or better result. I also think there are all kinds of crappy programs we don't need and a lot of antiquated programs we don't need. Spending money is not the problem IMO, wasting money is the problem, and both parties waste money to no end, and the public gouges the government to ridiculous degrees. I like, for example, what Gates is doing (although I totally admit I have zero idea of whether the particular cuts are good or not, but he is a guy I have come to trust, and he's not an Obama guy at all).

 

3] I do think that the Obama administration, and myself, wanted to spend a ton of money on certain things, like the ones I mentioned above: Education, green energy, infrastructure and power (along with health care which I am not necessarily for). I think we need to return to some manufacturing and I think the energy especially as well as the increases in education spending is great. And an investment that will pay off huge down the line. And the administration (as well as myself) do admit that's what they wanted to do, always did, and he campaigned on it. Nothing he has done in that regard was unexpected whatsoever. What me to say it again? I fully want to spend a lot of money on education and new forms of energy and infrastructure and power grids/technology.

 

What he didn't and never wanted to spend money on is on the banks and car companies and insurance companies and mortgage companies. He and his advisers and many economists and wall street honchos thought he had to (which may or may not be true) and he made those decisions. That is not at all the same thing as the spending he always planned on doing from the start.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If Obama is a windbag, what does that make DCT?

 

The description has been out on the streets for many, many moons now. Didn't Melissa (in Philly) coin the term what seems to a zillion years ago?:

 

Supercilious pedantic anal orfice

 

 

Hey if they can bring the dirt back on you from many years ago!