Kenwick Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Who they take depends on if they can resign Jason Peters to a New Contract. If they give up on him and trade him say for a 1st and a third, all bets are off. I would then say they need the best player at OT, OG/C, TE, OLB and DE pass rusher. .... Not in any particuar order. If DT Raji, WR Crabtree , OT Monroe or Smith along with DE Orakpo fall to the Bills I would think they would take one of them. DE/LB Brown is said to be too short. De/lb Maybin is said to be a one year wonder. DE Johnson is still unproven. Bills may feel they do not want to take the risk on these guys. On the other hand TE Pettigrew has all the qualifications they are looking for in a TE. That may be the route they will go even with other quality TE's in round two and three that could be had. They are going to look for a sure fire player and I do not blame them for who ever they pick is going to make a lot of money hands down. He better be a damn good pick. That is what the scouts are being paid for. It is a judgement call and they better be right. There are no should of, could of or would ofs after he has been picked. Who ever he may be. I still think a trade down is the best move if one can be made. Just hope there is a quality QB available at round 11. There will be several teams wanting to move up if that is the case. The Bills have a lot of needs to fill in this draft... I hope GM Russ Brandon can pull it off.
Leonidas Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Who they take depends on if they can resign Jason Peters to a New Contract. If they give up on him and trade him say for a 1st and a third, all bets are off. I would then say they need the best player at OT, OG/C, TE, OLB and DE pass rusher. .... Not in any particuar order. If DT Raji, WR Crabtree , OT Monroe or Smith along with DE Orakpo fall to the Bills I would think they would take one of them. DE/LB Brown is said to be too short. De/lb Maybin is said to be a one year wonder. DE Johnson is still unproven. Bills may feel they do not want to take the risk on these guys. On the other hand TE Pettigrew has all the qualifications they are looking for in a TE. That may be the route they will go even with other quality TE's in round two and three that could be had. They are going to look for a sure fire player and I do not blame them for who ever they pick is going to make a lot of money hands down. He better be a damn good pick. That is what the scouts are being paid for. It is a judgement call and they better be right. There are no should of, could of or would ofs after he has been picked. Who ever he may be. I still think a trade down is the best move if one can be made. Just hope there is a quality QB available at round 11. There will be several teams wanting to move up if that is the case. The Bills have a lot of needs to fill in this draft... I hope GM Russ Brandon can pull it off. Umm...who says Brown is too short? He's 6'4", three inches taller than Dwight Freeney. The Bills aren't taking Crabtree.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Umm...who says Brown is too short? He's 6'4", three inches taller than Dwight Freeney. The Bills aren't taking Crabtree. Brown's height is not a big deal to me but for the sake of factual correctness, he was measured a shade under 6'2" at the combine. And Freeney is more of a bowling ball at 270 pounds...a very fast bowling ball. Brown weighed in at 256 pounds at the combine. I still love Brown though.
Stl Bills Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Umm...who says Brown is too short? He's 6'4", three inches taller than Dwight Freeney. The Bills aren't taking Crabtree. Crabtree is the best player in the draft.....I'd take him over every other player except Raji.
The Dean Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Brown's height is not a big deal to me but for the sake of factual correctness, he was measured a shade under 6'2" at the combine. And Freeney is more of a bowling ball at 270 pounds...a very fast bowling ball. Brown weighed in at 256 pounds at the combine. I still love Brown though. I've been meaning to ask this: What is it that a 6' 2" guy can't do at DE? Other than bat down passes, what does height do for a DE?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Brown's height is not a big deal to me but for the sake of factual correctness, he was measured a shade under 6'2" at the combine. And Freeney is more of a bowling ball at 270 pounds...a very fast bowling ball. Brown weighed in at 256 pounds at the combine. I still love Brown though. I've been meaning to ask this: What is it that a 6' 2" guy can't do at DE? Other than bat down passes, what does height do for a DE? Yes, as I stated and agree, height is not a big deal. As I've said before height is a tie-breaker at most. As I've pointed out in the past, Elvis Dumervil is an excellent pass rusher who has never played with anyone who can draw blocking away. He's 5'11" and 260 pounds. In 31 starts he has 26 sacks. And as I've implied in the previous post, the lack of height is an advantage because the most basic pass rush move is the shoulder dip/rip on an outside speed rush. That low center of gravity combined with quickness is a great combination.
Astrobot Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 I think you have to take Crabtree and E-Brown regardless. Crabtree has had 231 rec in two years. If no one calls in our 15 minutes, we take him. Everette Brown, Orakpo or Maybin at your chief need --QB pressure-- isn't much to ask of a rookie, whereas the WILL linebacker needs to be a veteran in this defense (think Keiaho). That's why I think we most likely will take the DE first. IF WE TRADE DOWN (or get late first round picks like we have in recent years), you have to take Pettigrew. His block-and-receive skillset is unique, and he can put a check on a DE and go out in coverage, edging the SAM linebacker out away from the box. He's my must-have player, but not necessarily the only player we take in Round 1.
The Dean Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 I think you have to take Crabtree and E-Brown regardless. Crabtree has had 231 rec in two years. If no one calls in our 15 minutes, we take him. Everette Brown, Orakpo or Maybin at your chief need --QB pressure-- isn't much to ask of a rookie, whereas the WILL linebacker needs to be a veteran in this defense (think Keiaho). That's why I think we most likely will take the DE first. IF WE TRADE DOWN (or get late first round picks like we have in recent years), you have to take Pettigrew. His block-and-receive skillset is unique, and he can put a check on a DE and go out in coverage, edging the SAM linebacker out away from the box. He's my must-have player, but not necessarily the only player we take in Round 1. The problem with taking any WR early in the first round is, a WR really can't make much impact on his own (a DT/DE, a CB, even a Safety, can make plays on their own). And, typically, WRs take 2-3 years to make much of any impact. So, let's sat Crabtree is the next Calvin Johnson. So? How does that really help the Bills, in the near future? If the Bills had a first rate QB, and solid line, and a tough D, I'd be all over Crabtree. But, with Evans and Owens on the team, I think I'll pass, for this year.
Astrobot Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 The problem with taking any WR early in the first round is, a WR really can't make much impact on his own (a DT/DE, a CB, even a Safety, can make plays on their own). And, typically, WRs take 2-3 years to make much of any impact. So, let's sat Crabtree is the next Calvin Johnson. So? How does that really help the Bills, in the near future? If the Bills had a first rate QB, and solid line, and a tough D, I'd be all over Crabtree. But, with Evans and Owens on the team, I think I'll pass, for this year. I'll give my QB weapons and he'll be first rate. I won't need as solid a line as a result (although I'll be taking some run blockers like Urbik to play run-pass. I will also be taking Ayers in Round 2 and bringing in Keiaho, so I'll have an improved defense. We'll in 36-27 instead of lose 10-0.
SuperKillerRobots Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 I think you have to take Crabtree and E-Brown regardless. Crabtree has had 231 rec in two years. If no one calls in our 15 minutes, we take him. Everette Brown, Orakpo or Maybin at your chief need --QB pressure-- isn't much to ask of a rookie, whereas the WILL linebacker needs to be a veteran in this defense (think Keiaho). That's why I think we most likely will take the DE first. IF WE TRADE DOWN (or get late first round picks like we have in recent years), you have to take Pettigrew. His block-and-receive skillset is unique, and he can put a check on a DE and go out in coverage, edging the SAM linebacker out away from the box. He's my must-have player, but not necessarily the only player we take in Round 1. I used to think they would take the DE first because it seemed like we could get good value there with someone the FO liked. I'm beginning to think that the #11 pick looks less like somewhere we want to be and really hope they can find a way to get into the 18 to 23 range. I knwo they need pass rush help, but they also need a starting SLB (which I think trumps the DE in rd 1). I think they should find a way to have it make sense that they take Clay Matthews somewhere, somehow. He can play the run and rush the passer - imagine if teams didn't know which LB was coming on a blitz.
Kenwick Posted April 6, 2009 Author Posted April 6, 2009 Lack of height is a consideration according to Tom Modrak. I saw a video of him talking about DE Brown and that he is not of ideal height for a DE. He did not make a big deal out of it however. Production is a major concern with him and a players college history. In the NFL DE Brown will face higher quality Offensive Linemen then he saw in college. They can wear down a smaller DE like Brown and they are looking for a everydown DE in the first round.
Astrobot Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Lack of height is a consideration according to Tom Modrak. I saw a video of him talking about DE Brown and that he is not of ideal height for a DE. He did not make a big deal out of it however. Production is a major concern with him and a players college history. In the NFL DE Brown will face higher quality Offensive Linemen then he saw in college. They can wear down a smaller DE like Brown and they are looking for a everydown DE in the first round. "Every Down" rules out Maybin and boosts Tyson Jackson's stock a bit. If Orakpo and Jackson are there, they may see Jackson as a better choice for a 3-down defender. Orakpo or Brown may have more sacks on less playing time, which may be all right for the defensive line rotation we like to play.
NewEra Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 The problem with taking any WR early in the first round is, a WR really can't make much impact on his own (a DT/DE, a CB, even a Safety, can make plays on their own). And, typically, WRs take 2-3 years to make much of any impact. So, let's sat Crabtree is the next Calvin Johnson. So? How does that really help the Bills, in the near future? If the Bills had a first rate QB, and solid line, and a tough D, I'd be all over Crabtree. But, with Evans and Owens on the team, I think I'll pass, for this year. You pass THIS year, and wait for TO to go elsewhere...and draft a WR, who won't help for 2 more years....when lee Evans holds out an demands a trade. We have bigger needs that WR, but if crabtree is there, we need to draft him
The Dean Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 You pass THIS year, and wait for TO to go elsewhere...and draft a WR, who won't help for 2 more years....when lee Evans holds out an demands a trade. We have bigger needs that WR, but if crabtree is there, we need to draft him Hardy and Johnson are already on the team. They should be ready by next year. And, remember, you can always find a WR in FA, if you need to. You are assuming that Crabtree is a can't miss prospect, and that he is in the top tier of all-time WRs or something. I don't really buy that. In fact, I have see legit mocks that have TWO WRs picked before him (Maycock has Maclin and DH-B going before Crabtree). If you're picking on pure talent, I'd say you have to go with Malcolm Jenkins. Then they have a replacement for McGee or an upgrade at Safety. But, neither WR or DB are positions in urgent need of an upgrade, the way DE and OL are.
Bill from NYC Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 If you're picking on pure talent, I'd say you have to go with Malcolm Jenkins. Then they have a replacement for McGee or an upgrade at Safety. Why? Didn't he run slow enough at the combines that he is projected to play safety? Safeties don't usually go at #11, unless of course........
The Dean Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Why? Didn't he run slow enough at the combines that he is projected to play safety? Safeties don't usually go at #11, unless of course........ I think you put way too much stock in the combine. Did you watch the guy play? He can flat-out cover, and fortunately, tackle. He can be a safety at the pro-level because of his size, but he'd also make a fine CB. Should the Bills take him, they could use him to play FS and/or CB (maybe even SS)...very versatile. Now, with that said, I wouldn't draft him, if I was doing the picking for the Bills. But, I would take him over Crabtree, most likely...which was my point, here. At this stage in the team's development, a strong pass rush will do more for the DBs than another great DB added to the roster. On the other side of the ball, a good linemen, and/or a quality TE would do far more for the offense than a WR. I think the only position that adds less value to this team than a WR, is an RB.
Trader Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Brown's height is not a big deal to me but for the sake of factual correctness, he was measured a shade under 6'2" at the combine. And Freeney is more of a bowling ball at 270 pounds...a very fast bowling ball. Brown weighed in at 256 pounds at the combine. I still love Brown though. Freeney must have put on a lot of weight since college than I recall he was around 250.
offde-fence Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 I agree that one should evaluate players more on the basis of their game play than on their combine and or measurables... in the case of E. Brown, the Bills have a similar defence as Indy, and I'd say would like to emulate that defence, so, I'd think if he were there they'd take him. They need to win this year. A WR isn't necessary when both lines are still not entirely solid. One would have to think the Bills would pick Pettigrew, even, before Crabtree, on account of his blocking skills. And, Raji would be a solid pick up, too. It is very unlikely he'd be there at eleven, though. So, I'd guess E. Brown at eleven if he's there, or a trade down if he isn't to pick up Pettigrew near twenty. All of that taking place assuming Peters is a Bill this year. If they trade him, then they have to go O-line as soon as the Best one is available.
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