BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 And by the way fellas, let's really try avoiding making this another Peters thread. I'm hoping to turn it into a "Schoebel Holding Out.....Again" thread.
SKOOBY Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Really? Please detail Peters previous "game" two years ago, and fill us in on the time he missed, and the fit he threw. Thank you in advance. Peters complained in 2005 & got a $15 M extension, he made the probowl in 2007 and hasn't been happy since and asking for more money. So that looks to be about 2 years later to me. Fill in the rest yourself.
LynchMob23 Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Look at it this way - the one thing Bill Cowher has said in his semi retirement is that if he has learned one thing, it's that you can't stress out like his usually would when a player wouldn't show up during "protest season". If it spills into the MNF game vs NE, or Training camp before that, then we may have something to talk about, otherwise, let's not go lambasting the front office just yet...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 as much as i hate players sitting out.... jackson DESERVES a raise. he has been nothing but hardworking and loyal to the team and nothing but a good team player (not causing problems)
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Another factor is that Freddie, in my view, is not a chump number two running back but more of a 1B type, someone who can pinch hit (such as in week 17) and do it very well. Like someone mentioned earlier, he's very similar in value to Kenneth Davis was. I would say he deserves to be paid at least around the level of the 40th best running back in the NFL. Probably higher. That being said here's some relevant numbers: $460,000: The amount the Bills would have to pay him to retain his rights. $2 million: The total compensation for the 40th highest paid running back in the league (Michael Bennett, TB Bucs). Mewelde Moore and Lamont Jordan also make in this range. $2.1 million: Jonathan Stewart, rookie 1st round pick of the Carolina Panthers $2.35 million: Ladell Betts, considered one of the better backup running backs $2.65 million: Marshawn Lynch $3.0 million: Kevin Faulk, steady veteran who does everything well and nothing spectacular $3.1 million: Chester Taylor, considered one of the better backup running backs $6.6 million: 2009 NFL Franchise Tag amount So we all agree Freddy deserves 2 year $5 million or 3 year $7.5 million roughly?
Solomon Grundy Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Gee, apparently he's a malcontent and hates the Bills and his teammates and hates Buffalo. We should trade him. Who wants a guy who is not a team player and doesn't want to be here? Good one.I love it. Maybe we can trade him and Jason Peters for a 1st and 2nd rd pick then draft a LT and RB to replace them. Kelly you hit a Home Run with that reply. Tell Fred Jackson he's not allowed to hold out until he makes the Pro Bowl.
The Dean Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Peters complained in 2005 Link? Truth is, Peters EARNED his extension, he didn't get it because he complained. There was no holdout, no threat of a holdout...unless you have some real information there was. But, of course you have ZERO inside info about the Bills, and in fact, seem to know far less about what does on at OBD, than most of the posters here. For heaven's sake, can you really be that stupid about every topic? He was being paid as a sub, and got an extension as a RT. It's time he gets a starting LT contract. You might want to consider the harm unfounded rumors cause, before you start making up more lies, and posting them here.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Here's something I wrote in early February: Pricing Fred Jackson is a bit tough. The USA Today Database, which is a great resource doesn't however list average compensation over the length of the contract. On top of that there are things like "likely to be reached" and "unlikely to be reached" bonuses and the fact that signing bonuses are generally guaranteed but salaries are not, etc. Keep in mind also that many of these highly drafted running backs on their rookie contracts (Peterson, Mendenhall) will make considerably more on their 2nd contracts. That's why guys like Edgerrin James and Deuce McAllister are among the most highly paid RBs and rookie stars like Matt Forte and Marshawn Lynch are not. Another factor is that Freddie, in my view, is not a chump number two running back but more of a 1B type, someone who can pinch hit (such as in week 17) and do it very well. Like someone mentioned earlier, he's very similar in value to Kenneth Davis was. I would say he deserves to be paid at least around the level of the 40th best running back in the NFL. Probably higher. That being said here's some relevant numbers: $460,000: The amount the Bills would have to pay him to retain his rights. $2 million: The total compensation for the 40th highest paid running back in the league (Michael Bennett, TB Bucs). Mewelde Moore and Lamont Jordan also make in this range. $2.1 million: Jonathan Stewart, rookie 1st round pick of the Carolina Panthers $2.35 million: Ladell Betts, considered one of the better backup running backs $2.65 million: Marshawn Lynch $3.0 million: Kevin Faulk, steady veteran who does everything well and nothing spectacular $3.1 million: Chester Taylor, considered one of the better backup running backs $6.6 million: 2009 NFL Franchise Tag amount I agree, somewhere around 2-2.5 a year for four years would get the deal done. He has shown to be a very reliable back up. And a very good player when on the field. He usually gets about 5-10 touches a game. The other thing you dont want to happen is what S.D went thru. They had Micheal Turner who played a very similar role to Jackson. The Bills would be wise locking him up to a four year deal around 8-10 total. Like many mentioned the Bills are probably working thru the 'he who must not be named' deal and the draft right now. Would be surprised if Jackson did not have a long term deal before June. Plus a four year deal worth 10 million would not be bad for a guy from the Arena League.
Solomon Grundy Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 as much as i hate players sitting out.... jackson DESERVES a raise. he has been nothing but hardworking and loyal to the team and nothing but a good team player (not causing problems) So was Peters until the Bills decided not to pay him what he was worth.
Boom Jam Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 as much as i hate players sitting out.... jackson DESERVES a raise. he has been nothing but hardworking and loyal to the team and nothing but a good team player (not causing problems) I couldn't agree more.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 So we all agree Freddy deserves 2 year $5 million or 3 year $7.5 million roughly? Wait a minute. Is that you Mr Wilson?????
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Wait a minute. Is that you Mr Wilson????? No it's just me in San Jose. I'm trying to stem yet Peters' thread. In addition, I think it's important for us to conclude what is fair so we can follow the negotiations and judge the actions of both parties. This is a fairness issue and I want to see how Brandon and Company acquit themselves in this situation.
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 So was Peters until the Bills decided not to pay him what he was worth. so the bills should re-negotiate his already re-negotiated contract an an annual basis? whats the point of even giving him an extended contract when he has no intention to ever attempt to live by what he signed?
BhamBillsFan Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Maybe he's not selling enough jerseys for Brandon to want to resign him. I'd rather the Bills sign him to a solid contract than bring in some over the hill 3rd running back like Fred Taylor. No way, Taylor jerseys would sell much faster than Jackson jerseys, I say drop Freddie and pick up Taylor. You have to think like Brandon.
The Dean Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 so the bills should re-negotiate his already re-negotiated contract an an annual basis? Of course not. And that is hardly the point. But, they should pay him more, as a starting LT, than he was paid, as a guy relatively new to the RT position. Obviously, the team doesn't have to live by the contract, as they can cut him at any time. BTW, nobody with a clue is suggesting that Peters shouldn't be getting a raise. Even the Bills are offering him more than double what he was due to make, so your position is kind of moot.
The Dean Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 No way, Taylor jerseys would sell much faster than Jackson jerseys, I say drop Freddie and pick up Taylor. You have to think like Brandon. Except that Brandon doesn't make the decisions...and the Bills didn't pick up Taylor. Other than the fact that you seem to be wrong on both points...good post!
BillsWest Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 I doubt it, it was still a sty when I came in today. You know, my wife has got to clean a guys cubicle so he can move back in to it. Years of paperwork filed and unfiled, and just a big mess. I guess the guy gets paid too much to do it himself. WHAAAT?
LABills08 Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 This is what happens when you give guys like Kelsay and Dockery big money. Everyone else realizes they deserve a piece. Peters should have been extended last summer when he was cheaper, I hope they don't make the same mistake with Jackson
Steely Dan Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Some people here need a panty debuncher. The Bills and Jackson's agent, Jerome Douglas, have been talking about a longer-term deal for several weeks. It's probably a little slow for both him and Peters because they are negotiating the two contracts now. I think they will be fair to both. Hopefully before the draft. Good for him, the Bills should give him at least a 2 year contract and pay him what he's worth. He proved himself last year (unlike Peters) especially against New England. http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/631518.html What he said. The article mentioned the other players getting a 4 year 10 million deal. That does not sound crazy for a very solid number 2 back and a guy that can start when Lynch is out. Plus he has shown to be a great third down type of guy, good hands and very quick. This is a guy i would pay. But i hope he shows up to mandatory events. He's working out in Buffalo right now. It sounds to me like he'll be there faster than a jackrabbit with a jetpack when he signs for both mandatory and voluntary workouts. Jackson is not currently under contract with the Bills, so I don't think he's even allowed to attend the workouts. The article makes it sound like he could be there if he wanted. Gee, apparently he's a malcontent and hates the Bills and his teammates and hates Buffalo. We should trade him. Who wants a guy who is not a team player and doesn't want to be here? Jackson was tendered, ensuring he'll play for us or no one next year. He does deserve more money than he's making, but with the Peters situation and the draft, Jackson's new deal simply isn't a high priority right now. They have all summer to get a deal done with him. I agree. Every time you say something you make more and more sense. People...chill. It's very early. That being said, I think we're all in agreement that Freddy deserves to be paid. The Bills have all the leverage too since he is a 28 year old running back RFA, and RB's start to expire at 30. I love Freddy. We all do. But with other needs to fill I can see how this takes a backseat until after the draft. Then they should get to work on this. I think a three-year deal in the $10M range is more than fair. Or maybe something with incentives for yards, carries, and touchdowns that pays him fairly as the second RB on our roster but incentivizes him to work harder should he become the premier back if Marshawn gets shot or gets arrested or something. Hopefully this will be done before the draft as well as Peters. JMO
thebandit27 Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 There better not be anyone that rips Peters and defends Jackson here. With all of the comments I've seen on this board alleging that Peters "held the team hostage" during his holdout, I'd surely hope those folks wouldn't clam up about this one. We're talking about a guy who clearly sees that the starting player at his position is going to be suspended, and that the team intends to rely heavily upon his services for 2 or 3 weeks. Thus, he's holding out in the hopes that the team will get desperate to have him around and throw big money at him. Coincidentally, this is Jackson's last offseason to get a long-term deal before he starts a season at the age of 30. I personally think that he's trying to pinch the front office, and that he's showing himself to be far more of a me-first player than Peters. Peters, at least, waited until he was a starter for two years and made the Pro Bowl before he postured for a new deal. Jackson is a backup that has shown flashes in a few games, and has absolutely no ground for holding out. If he holds out into mandatory team activities, I, for one, would lose a lot of respect for him.
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