Orton and 2 marginal 1st rounders for Cutler?

[Cheeseburger_in_paradise]

Trading 2 1sts and a 3rd is tantamount to insanity. It's easy to give up top picks when it's not draft day. But ask Phil Savage how he feels about the draft last year when the Brownies had to wait until the 4th to pick.

 

Brings to mind the Herschel Walker trade, that made Dallas a dominant team for almost a decade, or the Ricky Williams trade by Da Coach. Bet he wishes he had that one back.

[H2o]

Ouch... Schlereth and Dilfer basically just said the the Bears got hosed in this trade. They said Cutler wouldn't be very good in Chicago.

I said the same thing about them getting hosed. I do think he needs help at the WR position.

[keepthefaith]

ya you're right, T.O was a very timid move.

 

Please, let' not try to compare signing T.O. to the deal Chicago just made. I'll give the Bills credit for that move, but the Bears have made what they feel is a franchise move. The Bills are simply renting T.O. for Jauron until Jauron gets canned.

[keepthefaith]

Huh? Nothing about Jauron?

 

You just needed to give me a little more time.

[JDHILL]

Exactly. Even the guys who want him would be saying it was a high price to pay. Three potential starters for one guy is a lot. I will really laugh if Cassel goes to K.C and has a better year then Cutler does in Chicago. Stop and think about that. What K.C gave up for their starter and what the Bears gave up. A move like this can set a team back years if it doesn't work out. Hell we should know. Rob Johnson ring a bell. Not saying Cutler hasn't shown more then Johnson, but there are some big questions about the guy. He is not like getting Peyton Manning from three years ago.

 

The Rob Johnson trade did not set Buffalo back. The salary cap set Buffalo back. Flutie could have played another 2 or 3 years with Buffalo and done fine. The salary cap and high paid aging superstars set them back. Giving up a # 1 pick for Rob Johnson at that time was seen as reasonable and the impact from not having that pick was minimal. Sam Cowart was their 2nd round pick and he was a steal in round 2.The mistake was made when Donahoe chose Johnson over Flutie.

[May Day 10]

im not a huge Edwards fan...

 

but no way do I want the Bills giving that up for Cutler

[The Jokeman]

The Rob Johnson trade did not set Buffalo back. The salary cap set Buffalo back. Flutie could have played another 2 or 3 years with Buffalo and done fine. The salary cap and high paid aging superstars set them back. Giving up a # 1 pick for Rob Johnson at that time was seen as reasonable and the impact from not having that pick was minimal. Sam Cowart was their 2nd round pick and he was a steal in round 2.The mistake was made when Donahoe chose Johnson over Flutie.

One could argue that Wade and co made a mistake letting Flutie play ahead of Johnson because it didn't let him develop on the field. I know people will ague how much better we were with Flutie but if look back Johnson showed some real promise when he beat San Francisco and played rather well against St Louis prior to Flutie's scramble to beat Jacksonville etc.

[Flbillsfan#1]

And a quarterback...in this case perhaps Edwards.

I just do not understand the LOVE for Edwards by a FEW on this board. The ONLY thing he he shown is the fact he can not stay healthy. He may become a Good QB, but what good is that if he can't stay on the field?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I just do not understand the LOVE for Edwards by a FEW on this board. The ONLY thing he he shown is the fact he can not stay healthy. He may become a Good QB, but what good is that if he can't stay on the field?

I mentioned Edwards because the equivalent trade for the Bills would be two 1sts, a 3rd, and Edwards, for a 5th and Cutler. Relax. I was responding to this post:

 

"Could you imagine the HATRED on this board if the Bills gave up 2 first rounders and a 3rd?" He didn't mention Edwards (as the Orton equivalent). Now do you understand?

[VOR]

Cutler is vastly overrated. He'll be a flop without Shanahan.

[billsfreak]

Cutler could be the best Bear's QB in decades, but maybe not. Only time will tell, but the Bears gave up an awful lot for him. Could work out well for the Bears, but "will" work out for Denver, they got a good deal on this one.

[billsfreak]

One could argue that Wade and co made a mistake letting Flutie play ahead of Johnson because it didn't let him develop on the field. I know people will ague how much better we were with Flutie but if look back Johnson showed some real promise when he beat San Francisco and played rather well against St Louis prior to Flutie's scramble to beat Jacksonville etc.

One could also argue that not giving the job to Flutie costs the Bills a trip to the Superbowl and who knows how many more wins, as he was clearly the better quarterback, and even more so a bigger winner. All Flutie did was win. The controversy started by ownership trying to control who played set the Bills back as much as anyone. We had some real talent on those teams, and things like that kept them from reaching their real potential.

[Paup 1995MVP]

Chicago gave up way way too much for Cutler, (and I happen to think he is a very good QB). The Bears problem is that they have next to nothing at wide receiver. Last year they played Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd and Mr. Dropsy Marty Booker as their top three as I recall. Not quite Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal and Tony Scheffler. Also, the Bears have a mediocre O line-nothing special. I don't see Cutler lighting it up until they bring in some real solid receivers. That Chicago agreed to the Broncos asking price is very surprising bordering on sheer stupidity.

 

But it sure makes for some exciting talk. We need some big football news right now. Draft is still three weeks away and the Sabres are done. When can we trade Jason Peters? If we can get a first and possibly a third or a fourth for FAT BUTT and also trade down from 11, picking up another second in the process, we will be sitting pretty come draft day. Lets go front office, start thinking like us fans who know a thing or two about the NFL. Yeah Baby, the draft is coming!!!

[PromoTheRobot]

This is the first time I've ever seen two 1st round picks described as "marginal." Makes you wonder what some people inhale before posting here.

 

PTR

[thewildrabbit]

Chicago gave up way way too much for Cutler, (and I happen to think he is a very good QB). The Bears problem is that they have next to nothing at wide receiver. Last year they played Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd and Mr. Dropsy Marty Booker as their top three as I recall. Not quite Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal and Tony Scheffler. Also, the Bears have a mediocre O line-nothing special. I don't see Cutler lighting it up until they bring in some real solid receivers. That Chicago agreed to the Broncos asking price is very surprising bordering on sheer stupidity.

 

But it sure makes for some exciting talk. We need some big football news right now. Draft is still three weeks away and the Sabres are done. When can we trade Jason Peters? If we can get a first and possibly a third or a fourth for FAT BUTT and also trade down from 11, picking up another second in the process, we will be sitting pretty come draft day. Lets go front office, start thinking like us fans who know a thing or two about the NFL. Yeah Baby, the draft is coming!!!

My take is Detroit needs a QB the most and have been looking at Stafford with that #1 pick and suddenly a pro bowl QB becomes available in Cutler, so the Lions turn their sights to Cutler. The Last thing the Bears want is another Farve type gunslinger of know quality who has been broken in properly going to a division rival.That might just be the reason the bears gave up so much,but then what price would you pay for a young Brett Farve?

 

To me Denver was absolutely crazy to let let Cutler walk away considering they have been trying to find a replacement for John Elway since he retired, and they finally find a good young QB and then let him go... simply stupid IMO

 

The Bears do have a good young TE in Greg Olsen and WR/KR in Devin Hester, but yea, now they need to go after a WR with that 2nd pick now that they signed Orlando Pace for the line.

[Magox]

Here's one take on the Bears/Denver trade:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11583339

 

 

 

By Clark Judge

CBSSports.com Senior Writer

 

 

This is my take on the Chicago Bears' deal for Jay Cutler: They were better off with Kyle Orton.

 

You heard me. Orton can't throw the ball as far or as straight as Cutler, and you won't find anyone drooling over the velocity of his passes. But he has something Cutler does not, and that's a high score in the leadership department -- and, sorry, but I'll take that over physical ability any day.

 

Jay Cutler has never made the playoffs or had a winning season.

As a rookie, he led the Bears to a 10-4 record -- including an eight-game winning streak -- before Rex Grossman returned. A year ago, he was back as a starter and was there for critical late-season overtime defeats of New Orleans and Green Bay. OK, so the Bears didn't make the playoffs but don't blame Orton. Blame Chicago's 21st-ranked defense, a unit that blew three 10-point leads and self-immolated in a last-second loss to Atlanta.

 

At the NFL winter meetings last month, Chicago coach Lovie Smith said the Bears were a running team that had to play good defense, and no one disagreed. So what's a running team doing acquiring a quarterback who can throw the ball the length of Michigan Avenue? You tell me, because I think the Bears were better off with Orton.

 

He fit their personality. He wasn't flashy, but he was effective before suffering an ankle injury. He was tough. He was gritty. And he won. Look it up: His record as a starter is 21–12, not bad for someone whom critics portray as the NFL's version of the Venus De Milo. Cutler is 17-20, never made the playoffs and never had a winning season.

 

So the Bears trade away Orton and three draft picks and, sorry, Chicago, your team just got fleeced. You need offensive linemen. You need receivers. You need a defense that must play better. Yet you just traded away the first round for a couple of years for a guy who throws a pretty pass and can't play .500 football in the AFC West.

 

Tell me Chicago knows what it's doing.

 

Smith had it right when he said you win in Chicago by running the ball and playing solid defense. The 1985 Bears had Walter Payton, a lights-out defense and Jim McMahon at quarterback. McMahon was tough, gritty and capable of big plays when you needed them, but he was hardly the second coming of Sid Luckman. He was perfect for that team because he epitomized its personality -- which was tough, gritty -- yeah, I think you get the idea.

 

Anyway, the Bears have to be that way because when it's November and December on Lake Shore Drive you don't win by having Jay Cutler throw the ball into 40 mph winds. You win by running, locking down your opponents and avoiding mistakes. Anyone have any idea how many interceptions Cutler launched last year? I do. It was 18, and only Brett Favre had more.

 

Then there's the matter of what Chicago gave up -- two first-rounders, a third-rounder and Orton. Are you kidding me? So Cutler was a Pro Bowl quarterback. Big deal. DeAngelo Williams wasn't elected to the team, which should tell you about the credibility of the honor. I won't argue that Cutler is one of the most talented quarterbacks in today's game, but I also won't argue that he's one of the most spoiled prima donnas, either.

 

All you need to know about this guy is that he once said he had "a stronger arm that John [Elway], hands down" and that "he'd bet on it against anybody's in the league" -- as if that somehow measured his greatness. First of all, I don't know that he has a stronger arm than Elway. I don't know that anyone does. Second, Elway made a name for himself not with his arm but with wins and fourth-quarter comebacks. In his second year, Elway went 13-3 and won the AFC West. In his third year, he was 11-5. And in his fourth, he was in the Super Bowl. That's how you measure quarterbacks, Cutler, not by arm strength.

 

Third, let's say you buy into Cutler as a franchise quarterback. OK, fine. So where's his franchise wide receiver? Devin Hester? Please. Earl Bennett? You've got to be kidding. There isn't one. Which is why I would have much rather seen the Bears hang on to the draft picks and invest them in something more worthwhile -- like an offensive tackle and cornerback -- or two offensive tackles -- or an offensive tackle and a wide receiver.

 

I imagine they'll find them anyway, but they just mortgaged the future for a quarterback who, when faced with winning only one of his last three starts last season, couldn't close the deal. Now he's going to magically transform the Bears into a division champion all over again when he couldn't do it with Mike Shanahan in the AFC West? There's a better chance of Terrell Owens serving as grand marshal at the next Mummers Parade.

 

And who's going to protect Cutler's back? Chris Williams? He can't protect his own back. I know the Bears think he'll be OK, but that's what they said when they drafted him, and look how much he started last year. He didn't. Orlando Pace? St. Louis was only too glad to let him walk, and the Rams’ offensive line was horrible last season.

 

At least Denver knew how to protect Cutler. He was sacked 11 times all season, and the Broncos ranked first in sacks per pass play. Tell me how Chicago gives him that kind of protection. It can't. It can't give him Ryan Clady, either. Or Brandon Marshall. Or Eddie Royal.

 

Finally, there's Cutler's personality. Cutler is a guy who whined about Philip Rivers' behavior when he and the San Diego Chargers drilled the Broncos, and he's someone who demanded a trade when the Broncos had the temerity to throw his name around in the Matt Cassel talks -- as if he deserved better. Well, then, tell me how he's going to act when Jared Allen stands him on his head three times in one afternoon or when Earl Bennett flubs a pass or when he can't feel his fingers in mid-December?

 

I just don't see how he fits in Chicago, and I don't see why the Bears decided to dump their first round -- as well as their quarterback -- for someone who has done nothing in three years.

 

Good luck, Chicago. You wanted him. You have him. Now let's see you win with him.

[Magox]

Here's another view:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11583335

 

 

Forget the cost, Bears getting franchise QB is priceless

April 2, 2009

By Pete Prisco

CBSSports.com Senior Writer

 

 

 

I love NFL first-round draft picks.

 

I love franchise quarterbacks even more.

 

So when breaking down the Chicago Bears decision to trade two first-round picks, a third-round pick and quarterback Kyle Orton to land franchise passer Jay Cutler from Denver Broncos, the price appears steep, but it isn't when you land a 25-year-old quarterback with Cutler's skills.

 

 

Cutler's cannon will help the Bears win some games. (US Presswire)

Chicago has needed a real passer since the days of Sid Luckman.

 

That was 60 years ago.

 

That's a long, long time.

 

You want proof: The Bears changed quarterbacks more than 40 times since the early 1990s.

 

It's a who's-who of stiffs who have started at quarterback for the Bears the past couple of decades.

 

Here are a few of them. Tell me to stop when you see a passer worth a damn: Moses Moreno. Steve Stenstrom. Jonathan Quinn. Craig Krenzel. Jim Miller. Will Furrer. Peter Tom Willis. That's not even including the horrors of trying to watch Bobby Douglass throw a football in the early 1970s. He made Mike Vick look like Dan Marino.

 

On and on it goes.

 

Cutler stops it. Orton didn't. That's why this deal works.

 

Cutler threw 25 touchdown passes last season. Only two Bears quarterbacks have done that. One was Luckman, who threw 28 in 1943. The other was Erik Kramer, who threw 29 in 1995.

 

The Bears finished 21st in passing last year, but that won't happen with Cutler. Of course, now the offense has to change.

 

The belief in Chicago is you always run it and play good defense. That can get you only so far. With all the rules changes the past 10 years, you have to throw it to score. With Cutler and fleet running back Matt Forte, the Bears need to play a more wide-open style of offense. It will be interesting to see how that changes.

 

But coach Lovie Smith is a Tony Dungy disciple. Dungy was viewed as a defensive coach in Tampa Bay. Then he inherited Peyton Manning in Indianapolis and that changed.

 

Smith is smart like Dungy. He will change, too.

 

It can be tough to throw in the Chicago weather, but Cutler has the arm to do so. And, really, how many games does the weather truly factor, maybe one or two a season?

 

The Bears don't have great receivers, but that could have been a product of poor quarterback play. I remember at the Super Bowl this year when Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald was asked about playing with Kurt Warner.

 

Fitzgerald said he thought great quarterbacks make receivers, not the other way around. He also said he felt sorry for those receivers who didn't get to play with a quarterback who could deliver the ball on time and accurately.

 

That's been the case in Chicago for some time. With Cutler, I look for the receivers to play better. Smith was already singing the praises of second-year receiver Earl Bennett. Now with Cutler, his former college teammate at Vanderbilt coming on board, Bennett should flourish even more. I see a fantasy sleeper.

 

The Bears have never had a 4,000-yard passing season in their history. Curler had one last year at the age of 25.

 

You can't discount that.

 

The hurt in this deal has to be in Denver. What is that team doing? If the season opened today, the Broncos would start either Orton or Chris Simms at quarterback. I like Simms. But he isn't Cutler.

 

Want to bet Brandon Marshall is about to find all about Fitzgerald's theory on quarterbacks making receivers? The Broncos do have the 12th and 18th pick in the first round -- the latter they got from the Bears -- so they can land a quarterback in the first round. Georgia's Matt Stafford will be gone and USC's Mark Sanchez might be as well. That could mean a trade up or taking Kansas State's Josh Freeman.

 

"I like Freeman more than Sanchez," one NFC personnel director said. "I just think he might take some time."

 

Does new coach Josh McDaniels have time? He better hope so. When owner Pat Bowlen replaced Mike Shanahan with McDaniels, it had to be met with snickers around the league. Now it's even more so.

 

"They didn't handle this very well," the NFC personnel director said. "It looks bad."

 

If there is any consolation for the Broncos it is this: Baltimore landed Joe Flacco with the 18th pick in last year's draft. So finding a franchise passer late is possible, but unlikely.

 

That leaves Denver in the same situation Chicago has been in most of the past 60 years, which is looking for a real quarterback.

 

Caretaker. Serviceable. Game manager.

 

Those words have been used plenty in Chicago when talking about the quarterback position during the past two and half decades. No more.

 

The Bears landed a franchise passer Thursday. Sid Luckman now has company, a Bears quarterback who can throw for big numbers.

 

For that, even draft picks, which I value greatly, are worth trading away.

[PromoTheRobot]

Jay Cutler has never made the playoffs or had a winning season.

 

So explain to me again why everyone thinks he's a franchise QB?

 

PTR

[Magox]

So explain to me again why everyone thinks he's a franchise QB?

 

PTR

In the AFC West at that.

 

 

I guess they are enamored with his strong arm and accuracy.

[PushthePile]

In the AFC West at that.

 

 

I guess they are enamored with his strong arm and accuracy.

I think this a start. I would also throw in his touchdowns and yards. You really need a pretty sweet resume to be recognized by your peers, coachs, and fans as the second best QB in the AFC last year. It's a nice accomplishment for a guy in his second full season of starting. Carson Palmer is usually considered a franchise quarterback and he is 0-1 in the playoffs. What a winner!