stuckincincy Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 I think it is more challenging to play for a team that only throws when everyone in the stadium knows they are throwing. Having to block when the defense only needs to defend the first 5 yards off the line of scrimmage doesn't help either. Add in a total stiff at guard next to you, so stiff he was cut, kind of adds to the difficulty. I think the surest way out of medicority is to let our best players leave. Because Lord knows, the stiffs we have had at DT are way better than Pat Williams so good thing we didn't break the bank for him. And certainly, losing Antoine Winfield and Nate Clements had nothing to do with our having to spend more and more draft picks on DB's every year to get their replacements while the other positions rotted on the vine. I think our strategy, to over pay for guys like Kelsay because hey, they carry a lunch pail and have a great motor and to break the bank for aging vets on the backsides of their careers like Schobel rather than signing young pro bowlers in their prime is working like a charm. We have the 7-9 seasons to prove it. Some of what you say is a management problem. There are numerous clubs, that have good OL coaches, that turn lower picks into reliable players, and also call up reserves that fill in well enough when injuries hit. And the Bills have been fortunate in terms of OL injuries the last 2 years. I'll ignore your second paragraph but to say yes, try to keep what you have. But at what price, with such an offense? Imagine their offense without fat field position thanks to the STs? The defense without same? It's not as if Peters is out there blocking for an offense flinging the ball long with some frequency. How would he look if he had to maintain protection for 2 seconds more, for 10 or so plays per game? I sure don't know. I've heard varying opinions about his run blocking. As someone mentioned - better the devil you know, than the devil you don't. But his holdout was anything but encouraging, as well as his evident desire to make the top, or near the top LT wage.
thebandit27 Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Here are the 6 P's in life:proper preparation prevents piss poor performance. Peters is supposed to be a professional. If he acted and played like one, this fiasco would never have occurred. A few P's to add to your list: Perhaps Professional Personnel Performing at Pro-bowl Paces Perennially should be Paid on Par with their Peers Peters isn't in the top 20 paid LT's in the league. Whether he had a down year or not, that's lousy and should be rectified.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 A few P's to add to your list: Perhaps Professional Personnel Performing at Pro-bowl Paces Perennially should be Paid on Par with their Peers Peters isn't in the top 20 paid LT's in the league. Whether he had a down year or not, that's lousy and should be rectified. This gets an A for humor. Good job.
billybob Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 1. Peters is the best Offensive Lineman on the Bills 2. Peters is a top 5 OT in the NFL 3. I don't like Peters weight, why do you have to be 350 when most of the DEs are 260-275, I think he'd be better at 325 4. In Peters world - Money=respect=manhood=you worth as a person that's why it's going to be almost impossible to sign him- that's what people don't understand it's not a logical thing. 5. If Peters is traded LT job will be Bell's to lose- unless he just sucks the job is his.
Rockinon Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 once again. Which is why we have him by the balls. He will cave in as long as we don't first Do you want to play chicken?
bflobarry Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 A few P's to add to your list: Perhaps Professional Personnel Performing at Pro-bowl Paces Perennially should be Paid on Par with their Peers Peters isn't in the top 20 paid LT's in the league. Whether he had a down year or not, that's lousy and should be rectified. Something to consider that I haven't seen mentioned yet: He has been WAY underpaid for the past 2 years. Most thinking people would admit that getting a Pro Bowl ( I know, we question that, but it is what it is) LT for the last 2 years for really low ball money is a huge factor in JP's view. He's made aprox 7 mil over the last 2 years, while top LT might have been expected to make maybe 8 or 9. Let's even say 7. So he's ALREADY owed back pay, so to speak, for the bargain the team has had the advantage of. So now, if he gets 10 mil for 4 years, he looks at it like this: 10 for 4 years, plus 7 for the last 2 years = 47 for 6 years, or 7.83 per year. That is STILL well below market. I'm not defending it, I'm just pointing out a seldom discussed angle....
DazedandConfused Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 The problem is here that folks seem to want to view this as purely a situation where the team is negotiating with an employee in order to maximize their profit, when actually it simply ain't that simple. We have gotten schooled as a country within the global economic structure during the fiscal meltdown going on right now that the key is actually when it says on the back of a dollar bill In God We Trust. When we are talking about dollar bills or goods and services in the modern economic system in the end it really is all about trust. Our founding fathers did an amazing job because they somehow found the sweetspot where with a union based on the concept of one from many (or e pluribus unum for you Latin scholar) we built a system where an individual can work to better their individual situation by trying hard within a prescribed set of rule governing our interdependence. The system does not work unless there is some degree of trust in the system. If there is no trust then for the Bills purposes your team never becomes a TEAM and simply will not do well when the difficult time comes as it always does for every NFL team. Just as in the broader economy trust has now been shaken because the money lenders in charge exploited the system so that they and the AIGs other world could make out like bandits and now no one can trust anyone to pay back a loan the economy is grinding to a halt. Like it or not, if the Bills want to be a successful TEAM they have to find a way to be adult about all this and even in the fact of Peters being a petulant brat, they need to find a way to maintain the trust of these little boy or they better let Peters go elsewhere because even if he does players are going to be looking over their shoulders rather than olaying for this team. Sure the Bills have every right to just say no to Peters, pay him far less than he would get in the free market because there is no free market for his talents right now. The Bills could pay him less than many other players are getting to play LT in the NFL or less than some of the other OL players on this team. However, if they assert their rights and actually could even tag Peters if the choose and hang onto him for 4 years or even two under his current contract that he signed the Bills would be at best penny wise and pound foolish. The goal is not to maximize return on profit for the Peters, the goal is build a TEAM where right now with the contracts there is just a team. Einstein once said the sign of true intelligence is the ability to hold two seemingly contradictory thoughts in one's head at the same time. This is the difficult task the Bills have to do is to reward Peters as though the NFL were a free market but nor set a precedent for other players and contracts. If they cannot pull off this difficult trick then they are not good enough or bright enough to win in this game.
The Dean Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 You're right - at that point his NFL career would likely be over. He'd so freakin' fat and out-a-shape, he'd resemble... Better get a bucket. I'm gonna throw up.
Dawgg Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 The problem is here that folks seem to want to view this as purely a situation where the team is negotiating with an employee in order to maximize their profit, when actually it simply ain't that simple. We have gotten schooled as a country within the global economic structure during the fiscal meltdown going on right now that the key is actually when it says on the back of a dollar bill In God We Trust. When we are talking about dollar bills or goods and services in the modern economic system in the end it really is all about trust. Our founding fathers did an amazing job because they somehow found the sweetspot where with a union based on the concept of one from many (or e pluribus unum for you Latin scholar) we built a system where an individual can work to better their individual situation by trying hard within a prescribed set of rule governing our interdependence. The system does not work unless there is some degree of trust in the system. If there is no trust then for the Bills purposes your team never becomes a TEAM and simply will not do well when the difficult time comes as it always does for every NFL team. Just as in the broader economy trust has now been shaken because the money lenders in charge exploited the system so that they and the AIGs other world could make out like bandits and now no one can trust anyone to pay back a loan the economy is grinding to a halt. Like it or not, if the Bills want to be a successful TEAM they have to find a way to be adult about all this and even in the fact of Peters being a petulant brat, they need to find a way to maintain the trust of these little boy or they better let Peters go elsewhere because even if he does players are going to be looking over their shoulders rather than olaying for this team. Sure the Bills have every right to just say no to Peters, pay him far less than he would get in the free market because there is no free market for his talents right now. The Bills could pay him less than many other players are getting to play LT in the NFL or less than some of the other OL players on this team. However, if they assert their rights and actually could even tag Peters if the choose and hang onto him for 4 years or even two under his current contract that he signed the Bills would be at best penny wise and pound foolish. The goal is not to maximize return on profit for the Peters, the goal is build a TEAM where right now with the contracts there is just a team. Einstein once said the sign of true intelligence is the ability to hold two seemingly contradictory thoughts in one's head at the same time. This is the difficult task the Bills have to do is to reward Peters as though the NFL were a free market but nor set a precedent for other players and contracts. If they cannot pull off this difficult trick then they are not good enough or bright enough to win in this game. FFS is that you?
The Dean Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 FFS is that you? I'd bust your chops for taking so long. But, truth be told, most of us discovered it not long ago, and not on our own.
Dawgg Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 I'd bust your chops for taking so long. But, truth be told, most of us discovered it not long ago, and not on our own. Geez... it just suddenly hit me.
Astrobot Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 Or the Bills can trade him, without a gun at their heads, and maybe get good value. Great point, because if the Bills take Oher, I can name 4 clubs who wanted a LT that are further down in Round 1. When will Peters have more value than after the Bills take Oher?
The Dean Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 Great point, because if the Bills take Oher, I can name 4 clubs who wanted a LT that are further down in Round 1. When will Peters have more value than after the Bills take Oher? I'd have to say, "Yes". Truthfully, I might take Oher. then sign Peters, too.
Trader Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 The Bills need to draft the best T on board at #11 (Smith or Oher) . Then the Bills will have all the leverage they will need. Peters can hold out, or he can sign the deal already offered by the Bills at 8.5 mil per season or he can play this year on his existing deal. If peters holds out we have enough personel on the roster to deal wit hit. If Peters signs his contract or decides to play on his old deal we have our LT and we would have a LG because both Smith or Oher can play G. Having a possible OL of Peters - (Smith or Oher) - Hargartner - Butler - Walker would represent an upgrade over last year. I would not draft Smith I do like the strategy though.
Trader Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 Or the Bills can trade him, without a gun at their heads, and maybe get good value. Now that is a strategy. Peters needs to prove to me that he is worth 10 + million. I am not paying that kind of cash to someone who would hold out and violate his contract.
DazedandConfused Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 FFS is that you? Anything worth saying is worth saying again and again and again..... and again at incredibly long length.
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