LynchMob23 Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Polian was a scout and football guy who rose up through the ranks, Brandon is a marketing guy. You can't compare the two. Actually, he was just that - a guy who sent information from his garage "scouting service" (which was just him on his own dime following players). Eventually he scouted for Levy in the CFL, who then recommended him to be hired by KC, then Chicago and back to CFL. THEN he joined the Bills. So, yeah, Polian did it the hard way. http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-62...nd-winding.html But because Brandon started in Marketing, has a football background and is building a scouting resume learning with the troops he's a joke? God help you then, because guys like Joe Gibbs would never have gotten a job with no college or pro playing experience - or Chris Polian (Bill's son) shouldn't be rising up the ranks because he is a "joke" too.
BillsNYC Posted March 31, 2009 Author Posted March 31, 2009 Actually, he was just that - a guy who sent information from his garage "scouting service" (which was just him on his own dime following players). Eventually he scouted for Levy in the CFL, who then recommended him to be hired by KC, then Chicago and back to CFL. THEN he joined the Bills. So, yeah, Polian did it the hard way. http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-62...nd-winding.html But because Brandon started in Marketing, has a football background and is building a scouting resume learning with the troops he's a joke? God help you then, because guys like Joe Gibbs would never have gotten a job with no college or pro playing experience - or Chris Polian (Bill's son) shouldn't be rising up the ranks because he is a "joke" too. What are you talking about? Gibbs played high school and college football, and then worked his way up the coaching ranks the hard way. Brandon doesn't have football background, he played on a joke college team, that is not a football background. You haven't answered my question, would Brandon be hired as GM on any other NFL team? I'll answer for you, no he wouldn't, the other NFL teams want to build winning teams to market, not marketable teams that will hopefully win. Other NFL GMs don't need articles in the local paper to boost their lacking credentials.
LynchMob23 Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 What are you talking about? Gibbs played high school and college football, and then worked his way up the coaching ranks the hard way. Brandon doesn't have football background, he played on a joke college team, that is not a football background. You haven't answered my question, would Brandon be hired as GM on any other NFL team? I'll answer for you, no he wouldn't, the other NFL teams want to build winning teams to market, not marketable teams that will hopefully win. Other NFL GMs don't need articles in the local paper to boost their lacking credentials. I took that as a "get to know" a GM 15 months into his job. Not a puff piece. But you're focused on tearing a guy down trying to make the team better I disagree. Thanks for the debate.
Dr. Trooth Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 The Doc here... just keepin it real and tellin it like it is. Tough schitt if ya can't handle reality. Russ is an outstanding marketing person. His record belies that. He's a GM wannabee... thus the title C.O.O.... which is just a consensus builder. It's his 2nd season on the job. Look back on Polian or Butler's 1st and 2nd years. They had a clear path they wanted to take and made purposeful and meaningful personnel moves to get them there. They built O and D lines right out of the gate. The O and dline talent they assembled in their first two years was the foundation of the run of the late 80's and through most of the 90's. Russ had an opportunity to his first statement... influence Ralph on the three year extentsion given to Jauron. Bottom line is either he encouraged him to extend DJ or he discouraged him. If it was the latter, it clearly demonstrates he doesn't have Ralph's ear... and that's what makes him a GM wannabe. Now, if he encouraged Ralph to extend DJ, then he's really clueless and never will be worth a schitt as a GM. DJ may have a passion for football, but on a scale of 1-10, his passion for winning is .05... and that ain't even legally intoxicated on winning. One last thing on Russ... back to benchmarking him with former GMs. Polian had fire, presence. Butler had presence, but not the fire Polian had. Russ' style is ???...no fire and no presence. As a GM role model, Teflon Tom was probably the one Russ spent most time around. How's that working out? Mediocrity breeds mediocrity.
1billsfan Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 The Doc here... just keepin it real and tellin it like it is. Tough schitt if ya can't handle reality. DJ may have a passion for football, but on a scale of 1-10, his passion for winning is .05... and that ain't even legally intoxicated on winning. Now THAT'S keeping it real.
BillsVet Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Russ had an opportunity to his first statement... influence Ralph on the three year extentsion given to Jauron. Bottom line is either he encouraged him to extend DJ or he discouraged him. If it was the latter, it clearly demonstrates he doesn't have Ralph's ear... and that's what makes him a GM wannabe. Now, if he encouraged Ralph to extend DJ, then he's really clueless and never will be worth a schitt as a GM. DJ may have a passion for football, but on a scale of 1-10, his passion for winning is .05... and that ain't even legally intoxicated on winning. One last thing on Russ... back to benchmarking him with former GMs. Polian had fire, presence. Butler had presence, but not the fire Polian had. Russ' style is ???...no fire and no presence. As a GM role model, Teflon Tom was probably the one Russ spent most time around. How's that working out? Mediocrity breeds mediocrity. Ralph still runs the show, with Littman advising on financial matters, which pretty much covers all personnel decisions. Agree completely here...Brandon gets to make some of the smaller decisions, but among big issues, like firing the HC, he's about third in line behind RW and Littman. I would still like to know his vision for building a football team. Frankly, I don't think he has one, and when compared to Polian and Butler, he's still completely inexperienced.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Look, people are criticizing Brandon and Jauron here. Who hired who? Ralph Wilson hired everone in the organization either directly or indirectly. If anyone is to blame it's Ralph. This team has a .475 winning percentage in 50 years. Take away the 4 head coaches in our history who've had winning careers with the team and this team has a .322 winning percentage. This team has had 19 winning seasons in 50 years. As I wrote on a different thread, this owner has been good for both the AFL and the NFL, but based solely on his record as the Bills owner he's sucked. If you want to criticize Brandon and Jauron that's fine but it has to be done within the context of the incompetent, dysfunctional organization that Ralph Wilson has 'built" here. It all starts at the top. You don't like Brandon? Ask Ralph to hire someone else. As for Brandon and his offseason, I'll reserve judgement until at least the end of this offseason. He'll have been on the job for 20 months by then.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 What are you talking about? Gibbs played high school and college football, and then worked his way up the coaching ranks the hard way. Brandon doesn't have football background, he played on a joke college team, that is not a football background. You haven't answered my question, would Brandon be hired as GM on any other NFL team? I'll answer for you, no he wouldn't, the other NFL teams want to build winning teams to market, not marketable teams that will hopefully win. Other NFL GMs don't need articles in the local paper to boost their lacking credentials. I love when people who never played a college sport can criticize someone else. The fact that the man played 2 college sports at a very high level is impressive. He is better than you. And who cares if another team would have hired him? If the guy makes the Bills a revalant (which he has), a playoff team, and finds a way to keep them in Buffalo, he will have a ton of job offers. All I know is that Donahoe was the pinnacle "football guy" and he sucks monkey balls. In 2 years, the Brandon-led Bills have made a lot more good moves than bad ones. In reality, that's all that matters. Not the public perception.
BillsNYC Posted March 31, 2009 Author Posted March 31, 2009 I love when people who never played a college sport can criticize someone else. The fact that the man played 2 college sports at a very high level is impressive. He is better than you. And who cares if another team would have hired him? If the guy makes the Bills a revalant (which he has), a playoff team, and finds a way to keep them in Buffalo, he will have a ton of job offers. All I know is that Donahoe was the pinnacle "football guy" and he sucks monkey balls. In 2 years, the Brandon-led Bills have made a lot more good moves than bad ones. In reality, that's all that matters. Not the public perception. I played a college sport, that doesn't make me an expert on it, and neither it does him. Its funny how people desperate to give him football credibility point out that he played college football. The guy worked in baseball until he was with the Bills. I love the TO signing, but come on, the Bills were either the only bidder or the only one to offer close to 6.5. This was not a genius marketing move that made the Bills relevant, I don't get all the "genius" credit Brandon gets for it. We just have to agree to disagree on good moves by Brandon. He's just a marketing guy, which is why we were 0-6 in the division last year and the team has no vision other than moving to Toronto or being sold off.
BuffaloBill Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Would Brandon be the GM of any other team in the NFL? I think the results of this year will answer that question. If the Bills return to the playoffs there may be interest. If they do not he will be on the outside looking in. Keep in mind while unpopular with the fan base his regionalization concept may actually keep the Bills in Buffalo long term. Buffalo does not have the advantage that GB lucked into with their public ownership status so the franchise sits in a small economically depressed market. If Brandon's plan keeps them there he has done WNY and Buffalo a huge favor. Building a winning team would be icing on the cake.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 I played a college sport, that doesn't make me an expert on it, and neither it does him. Its funny how people desperate to give him football credibility point out that he played college football. The guy worked in baseball until he was with the Bills. I love the TO signing, but come on, the Bills were either the only bidder or the only one to offer close to 6.5. This was not a genius marketing move that made the Bills relevant, I don't get all the "genius" credit Brandon gets for it. We just have to agree to disagree on good moves by Brandon. He's just a marketing guy, which is why we were 0-6 in the division last year and the team has no vision other than moving to Toronto or being sold off. You're right. It was Russ Brandon's fault that Edwards fumbled in the first Miami game, or the pick 6 he threw against the Jets, or that god awful Losman had to start 2 games against the Fins and Jets. Seriously??? Come on now. As for the Toronto, you have absolutely no idea what the Bills' intentions are, so don't pretend that you do. As of right now, the Bills got $78 million for one regular season game and a bunch of preseason games and also showed that Toronto isn't ready for the NFL. That is a pretty good deal for the Bills.
BillsNYC Posted March 31, 2009 Author Posted March 31, 2009 I think the results of this year will answer that question. If the Bills return to the playoffs there may be interest. If they do not he will be on the outside looking in. Keep in mind while unpopular with the fan base his regionalization concept may actually keep the Bills in Buffalo long term. Buffalo does not have the advantage that GB lucked into with their public ownership status so the franchise sits in a small economically depressed market. If Brandon's plan keeps them there he has done WNY and Buffalo a huge favor. Building a winning team would be icing on the cake. That's my point, the Toronto thing is all marketing, which is great for selling tickets and the bottom line. However, the football side suffers as we saw last year.
The Senator Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 You're right. It was Russ Brandon's fault that Edwards fumbled in the first Miami game, or the pick 6 he threw against the Jets, or that god awful Losman had to start 2 games against the Fins and Jets. Seriously??? Come on now. As for the Toronto, you have absolutely no idea what the Bills' intentions are, so don't pretend that you do. As of right now, the Bills got $78 million for one regular season game and a bunch of preseason games and also showed that Toronto isn't ready for the NFL. That is a pretty good deal for the Bills. For their $78 million, the Bills agreed to 5 regular season games in Toronto, plus 3 preseason games, over 5 seasons.
BillsNYC Posted March 31, 2009 Author Posted March 31, 2009 You're right. It was Russ Brandon's fault that Edwards fumbled in the first Miami game, or the pick 6 he threw against the Jets, or that god awful Losman had to start 2 games against the Fins and Jets. Seriously??? Come on now. As for the Toronto, you have absolutely no idea what the Bills' intentions are, so don't pretend that you do. As of right now, the Bills got $78 million for one regular season game and a bunch of preseason games and also showed that Toronto isn't ready for the NFL. That is a pretty good deal for the Bills. Russ Brandon said the buck stops with him, so yes, I blame losing seasons on him and Ralph. Moreso Ralph because Brandon is not a football guy and doesn't belong in his position, he's in way over his head. I'm not pretending to know what the Bills intentions are. I agree with the Toronto plan but it has to be done right. However the Bills communication with the fans on the effort have been terrible. A survey going out to fans about a 2nd game before the team acknowledges it? No wonder fans think the team is moving there, the whole situation has been handled terribly by the team. That is on Brandon's lap.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 What are you talking about? Gibbs played high school and college football, and then worked his way up the coaching ranks the hard way. Brandon doesn't have football background, he played on a joke college team, that is not a football background. You haven't answered my question, would Brandon be hired as GM on any other NFL team? I'll answer for you, no he wouldn't, the other NFL teams want to build winning teams to market, not marketable teams that will hopefully win. Other NFL GMs don't need articles in the local paper to boost their lacking credentials. You've heard about that paraplegic NFL kicking coach, right? I guess he's unqualified too. http://www.dougblevinskicking.com/aboutus.html
Magox Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 We can argue till we're blue in the face about Brandon's qualifications, his short tenure as G.M. etc. At least withhold judgement until the season's over. No one can be legitimately judged at this position in 15 months. I would also remind people that he has the difficult task of working under Ralph Wilson whose spendthrift ways and personal grudges have always held this team back. In the name of a constructive conversation, Mark Gaughan's article touched on two points which jumped of the page at me. Firstly, "Brandon indicated that the team needs depth at all positions, but a pass-rushing defensive end, outside linebacker, tight end and left guard are specific needs." So to those bellyaching about Chambers starting at guard and Ellison starting at LB, smell the beans. Of course a team is going to say nice things about the players who are default starters at the moment on their roster. WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO SAY? But clearly the team recognizes those positions as in need of upgrade. Secondly, "One thing Brandon has learned is the Bills' team-oriented approach to personnel decisions, which are made with input from key figures in the organization, including Wilson, Modrak, Vice President of Pro Personnel John Guy and head coach Dick Jauron." So to all the cynical and negative people who always seem to think that Jauron is making the personnel decisions I think Gaughan is showing us a bit of a hierarchy in this sentence. Very few coaches have total player authority and I don't think Jauron is one of those. They are asking him to be the coach, not the franchise architect. How about we stop criticizing the offseason until at least the offseason is over? Is that reasonable? This argument should of stopped right here, because we are dealing with unreasonable fans. Anyone who expected Russ Brandon to field a good team after a few months at the helm last year is either irrational or delusional. In the short time that he has been at the helm, he engineered the trade for Stroud, drafted McKelvin in his first draft, cut dead weight in Royal and Dockery and most likely upgraded our center position, and he rejeuvenated the fan base with a monster signing in T.O. To say that T.O is just a marketing ploy, would be incorrect. He has produced every where he has gone, and the QB's that have played for him have all had their best years while T.O was a receiver on their team. Sure we can have the argument of the detriment that he has caused, but my point is that it is not just a marketing ploy. Some are throwing the towel up in the air saying that "we are done in FA" . Time will tell. I would say that you have to give the guy at least a couple years and see how the decisions pan out. Up to now, he has made good moves in my view.
Ramius Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 The buck may still "stop" with brandon, but it ultimately stops with Ralph. I don't care who holds what title in this organization, but anyone who has followed this team realizes that whatever Ralph wants, Ralph gets. He's the decision maker for this franchise. Sure, he may defer to his football guys on certain matters, but when Ralph decides something, thats whats going to happen. Ralph overseeing Brandon does isn't a knock on Brandon's ability. Its Ralph being Ralph.
2003Contenders Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 I played a college sport, that doesn't make me an expert on it, and neither it does him. Its funny how people desperate to give him football credibility point out that he played college football. The guy worked in baseball until he was with the Bills. I love the TO signing, but come on, the Bills were either the only bidder or the only one to offer close to 6.5. This was not a genius marketing move that made the Bills relevant, I don't get all the "genius" credit Brandon gets for it. We just have to agree to disagree on good moves by Brandon. He's just a marketing guy, which is why we were 0-6 in the division last year and the team has no vision other than moving to Toronto or being sold off. Why the negativity? Why don't we give the guy a chance? I can't see that he's done anything to deserve your scorn? So what if his primary background is in marketing? Butler was a scout by trade -- and did a decent job acquiring talent (until he didn't care anymore and botched the last couple of drafts), but (with all due respect to the departed) he was also a HORRIBLE business manager -- which placed the team in a tough position financially. Has everyone forgotten the cap hell he left behind? Donahoe tends to be vilified here -- and he deserves it for 5 non-playoff seasons and two bad coaching hires. However, he did a very good job of cleaning up the salary cap mess and placing the franchise back on solid financial footing. I think his biggest problem is that -- whether it is true or not -- he was at least perceived as an autocrat. Thus, Ralph responded by hiring Marv (and then Brandon) as consensus builders. I think it is unfair to suggest that Jauron's staying on board shows that Ralph doesn't have Brandon's ear. The reason given for keeping Jauron on hand is that the team wanted to maintain a level of continuity. If that is true, it stands to reason that the entire inner circle was involved in the decision to keep Jauron on hand. If it isn't true -- and everyone is just saying the politically correct thing to cover for Ralph's financial decision to keep Jauron and forgo having to pay him his contract on top of a new coach's contract, I don't see how you can suggest that is Brandon's fault. I am not saying that Brandon will be the next Bill Polian, either. I simply have not seen enough to make me believe that he is the answer one way or the other -- and neither have you.
Haven Moses Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Russ Brandon said the buck stops with him, so yes, I blame losing seasons on him and Ralph. Moreso Ralph because Brandon is not a football guy and doesn't belong in his position, he's in way over his head. I'm not pretending to know what the Bills intentions are. I agree with the Toronto plan but it has to be done right. However the Bills communication with the fans on the effort have been terrible. A survey going out to fans about a 2nd game before the team acknowledges it? No wonder fans think the team is moving there, the whole situation has been handled terribly by the team. That is on Brandon's lap. Three straight 7-9's and the Bills are making way more money. That's a manager.
Steely Dan Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 "He's always had a great interest in scouting," said Tom Modrak, the Bills' vice president of college scouting. "Russ was trying to learn that end of the business with John and then with Tom and he continues to have a lot of interest in the personnel end of things. He enjoys that, he wants to be good at that and he keeps working at it."http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/624259.html Anybody else read that and relate it to having a coworker's little kid in the office and letting him sit at your desk for a few minutes to let him feel like an adult? Or better yet, the boss' son who you HAVE to be nice to and let sit at your desk? Did you read the article? He studied with John Butler who would quiz him on different things. He studied under Donahoe and does some scouting. He knows a lot more about football than anybody here. JMO He traded for Stroud and it looks like a steal for the team, he had a great draft last year and IMO has the team on a much better road than before he was promoted. He's not afraid to make bold moves and I think that's great. I think you are taking the bolded part much to literally. I didn't get that at all. The only way I believe anyone could of interpreted what you did was reading into the article with critical eyes. To me, what I gather from everything I've seen and read about Russ Brandon is that he is a young and accomplished man who strives to learn all aspects of the business and game. What he said. Im basing that off jaurons comments on both ellison(horrible) and chambers(not a guard) Based off that they appear to be content. Sorry i think this offseason has sucked. It was a very weak FA market this offseason. Signing Owens, Florence and a better Center are good in and of themselves. Look for Buffalo to sign some guys after the draft. JMO Please name some of the mistakes Brandon has made. He acquired one of the best DTs in football for a 3rd and 5th. He cut an overpaid, underachieving guard. He got one of the greatest receivers for less than it would cost to sign L. Coles. He selected a future pro bowler at corner and kick returner. IMO, Brandon has done a really good job and the people who criticize him are just jealous. The guy was a 2 sport college athlete and worked his way to being in a prime position in sports by 40. Brandon is better than you. You forgot Reggie Corner, Derek Fine, and Steve Johnson too. The jury is out on Ellis because he was injured last year.
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