Guest dog14787 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 With the new addition of TO on the Buffalo Bills Roster many of the Bills faithful are excited about the upcoming season and what TO will do to improve what has been one of the worse offenses in the league. I'm sure everyone already knows TO is capable of big things on the football field, its been well publicized and its no secret that TO has been the Top scoring WR in the game over the last 3 years, but how will that help us? In my opinion the answer largely depends on the coaching, more specifically the OC. As much as I would like to think TO's addition is going to help, without proper play calling and a good offensive system it doesn't matter how much talent you have its probably not going to work. Some of you may agree with me when I say Dick Jauron shouldn't even be here right now, but I understand the circumstances and I'm rolling with the punches as usual. What really gets to me though is how do you get out of replacing an inexperienced, unqualified, untalented, OC who is an assistant, from an assistant, from what was a failing offense to begin with (Mike Martz). Plus someone that has shown zero signs of improvement and almost gets your QB killed. I know its still early on, but in my opinion Turk Shonerts latest interview did very little to instill any confidence and gave the impression that very little has changed. Shonert also gives me the impression that we won't be changing our system for TO, God forbid we should do something so foolish. I know some of you guys are allot better with the X's and O's of football then I am and I noticed Turk Shonert still seems to have allot of support. So tell me what I'm missing here guys, because if you asked me now with our current coaching staff on whether or not a player of TO's caliber is going to be a big enough addition to put us over the top and into the playoffs? in my opinion and I hope I'm wrong, its not TO be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 You realize that the reason why Turk isn't changing the offense because it is basically a West Coast Offense the kind that TO thrives in? TO thorughout his career has taken Short to Mid level throws the distance. he can go deep if he gets the right situation but he isn't the fastest WR there is. However i do agree with you that if Turk doesn't stop using WR's at the line to block we have issues. Everytime he puts Josh Reed in motion and then ducks into the Line people know it is a run. I can see it from my lazyboy chair on sundays. What does he think a Middle LB will do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You realize that the reason why Turk isn't changing the offense because it is basically a West Coast Offense the kind that TO thrives in? TO thorughout his career has taken Short to Mid level throws the distance. he can go deep if he gets the right situation but he isn't the fastest WR there is. However i do agree with you that if Turk doesn't stop using WR's at the line to block we have issues. Everytime he puts Josh Reed in motion and then ducks into the Line people know it is a run. I can see it from my lazyboy chair on sundays. What does he think a Middle LB will do? In my opinion the offense that was originally designed and installed by Steve Fairchild was more of a big play offense, but Fairchild was forced to start modifying the offense because of the conservative minded Dick Jauron. I'm not sure what you would call our offense now, I suppose the way TE checks down constantly it resembles a west coast offense, but since when is a West Coast offense so difficult to run and be successful? Plus a West Coast offense is allot more QB friendly normally, or at least I always thought it was, I mean the whole idea is to get the ball out of the QB's hands quicker spreading the field more from sideline to sideline rather than down the field. Our offense last season was like putty in our opponents hands. We had no identity and to me actually got worse rather then better as the season progressed. I realize Trent Edward's concussion didn't help matters, but I still think we should have shown progress. We ran the ball better, that's it, the only progress and to me running the ball is a mind set that comes from practice and hard work. So if we didn't improve at all last year and TE looked more confused at the end of the season then he did at the beginning of the season. I'm sorry folks , but something is wrong with this picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 well, if it comes down to coaching and they arent getting the job done with proper play-calling, theyll at least be called out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Schonert was a career QB coach when DJ selected him from a pool of one candidate to become OC. Whenever he's questioned, Schonert talks about how much film he's watched and his relationship with Bill Walsh. A guy like that has some issues, but if he were still QB coach I wouldn't mind. Unfortunately, he's the guy putting together the offensive gameplan, and last year it was underwhelming. I understand the concept of the WCO, but no one said the ball can't be thrown into the EZ, or slants can't be used from time to time. Last year, that offense was extremely predictable, and Schonert could not figure out the 3-4 defense no matter how many times he saw it. I don't believe he adequately prepared the offense, and rarely after the first 6 games was his biggest weapon, Evans, used like he should have been. Frankly, I think he ran out of answers by about Week 7. Count me among the unimpressed by all of Schonert's talk. He's yet to back it up on the field. And just maybe the Buccaneers, Bills of 98-00, Panthers, and Giants knew what they were doing in keeping him just a QB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 well, if it comes down to coaching and they arent getting the job done with proper play-calling, theyll at least be called out. TO be don't ya just love it, and I wonder if Ralph Wilson was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Just get T.O. the damn ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 In my opinion the offense that was originally designed and installed by Steve Fairchild was more of a big play offense, but Fairchild was forced to start modifying the offense because of the conservative minded Dick Jauron. I'm not sure what you would call our offense now, I suppose the way TE checks down constantly it resembles a west coast offense, but since when is a West Coast offense so difficult to run and be successful? Plus a West Coast offense is allot more QB friendly normally, or at least I always thought it was, I mean the whole idea is to get the ball out of the QB's hands quicker spreading the field more from sideline to sideline rather than down the field. Our offense last season was like putty in our opponents hands. We had no identity and to me actually got worse rather then better as the season progressed. I realize Trent Edward's concussion didn't help matters, but I still think we should have shown progress. We ran the ball better, that's it, the only progress and to me running the ball is a mind set that comes from practice and hard work. So if we didn't improve at all last year and TE looked more confused at the end of the season then he did at the beginning of the season. I'm sorry folks , but something is wrong with this picture. It is a West Coast Offense at least i remember Turk saying it was. you are comparing steve Fairchild and Turk which isn't right. Turk's play calling was all short to intermediate throws last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 It is a West Coast Offense at least i remember Turk saying it was. you are comparing steve Fairchild and Turk which isn't right. Turk's play calling was all short to intermediate throws last year. That's really my point, we don't have an identity. We have an assistant spun off of an assistant, spun off of a mad man, and we can't even get that right, one would almost say our offense is possessed with multiple personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Our coaching sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 First, I'd have to say the OC was hamstrung with limitations of what the offense could do,meaning the offensive line and WR's. During some games where the O line blocked well and gave Edwards time,he was able to execute the offense as called fairly well.Usually against teams that had very poor defenses,conversely they played poorly against better defenses and better D lines.There were games where Edwards didn't have time to throw deep or if he did have time but coverages were so good that he was forced to dump the ball to the backs more then the OC wanted. Turk Schonert even came out and admitted that the Bills simply didn't have anyone who could go opposite Lee Evans and help take coverages away from him to help with the deep passing routes. Another deep threat besides Evans would also help Trent Edwards by opening up the offense more, thus giving them more passing options. So just having TO on the team means that opposing defenses can't double / triple cover Lee Evans anymore. Now throw in a really good TE (Tony G- Pettigrew- Tony S) into the mix and you suddenly have a very viable passing offense. If the Bills can solidify the O line before the season starts they might just have a real chance to win some games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 First, I'd have to say the OC was hamstrung with limitations of what the offense could do,meaning the offensive line and WR's.During some games where the O line blocked well and gave Edwards time,he was able to execute the offense as called fairly well.Usually against teams that had very poor defenses,conversely they played poorly against better defenses and better D lines.There were games where Edwards didn't have time to throw deep or if he did have time but coverages were so good that he was forced to dump the ball to the backs more then the OC wanted. Turk Schonert even came out and admitted that the Bills simply didn't have anyone who could go opposite Lee Evans and help take coverages away from him to help with the deep passing routes. Another deep threat besides Evans would also help Trent Edwards by opening up the offense more, thus giving them more passing options. So just having TO on the team means that opposing defenses can't double / triple cover Lee Evans anymore. Now throw in a really good TE (Tony G- Pettigrew- Tony S) into the mix and you suddenly have a very viable passing offense. If the Bills can solidify the O line before the season starts they might just have a real chance to win some games. Turk pointed his finger at numerous things besides not having a viable #2 WR. But he forgot one item: predictable and bone headed play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (Turk Schonert + Dick Jauron) < Mike Leach (Note to Ralph - Leach has no buyout clause in his new contract, and he runs his own offense (no OC), so you'd be getting a 2-fer.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I just hope this year that Schonert will use Lynch more in the redzone than Jackson. I think the addition of T.O. will open up the other WR's, plus free up the run game some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Turk pointed his finger at numerous things besides not having a viable #2 WR. But he forgot one item:predictable and bone headed play calling. This is where I'm hoping that Trent Edwards really steps up! The Stanford grad should know the difference between a bonehead play call and one that will work by now. If Schonert starts calling moronic plays like he did in that Jets game, where Lynch is tearing them a new one and just made a first down rushing and all it would take is another run or two to end the game... don't freaking roll out!!! Edwards needs to say to himself WTH is this and audible out of it,or simply call something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 This is where I'm hoping that Trent Edwards really steps up! The Stanford grad should know the difference between a bonehead play call and one that will work by now. If Schonert starts calling moronic plays like he did in that Jets game, where Lynch is tearing them a new one and just made a first down rushing and all it would take is another run or two to end the game... don't freaking roll out!!! Edwards needs to say to himself WTH is this and audible out of it,or simply call something different. You're implying that because Edwards went to Stanford, he's smarter than Schonert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 This is where I'm hoping that Trent Edwards really steps up! The Stanford grad should know the difference between a bonehead play call and one that will work by now. If Schonert starts calling moronic plays like he did in that Jets game, where Lynch is tearing them a new one and just made a first down rushing and all it would take is another run or two to end the game... don't freaking roll out!!! Edwards needs to say to himself WTH is this and audible out of it,or simply call something different. If you are going to rely on the players to overcome inept coaching, then the Bills are screwed. An audible by the offense is done in reaction to the defense being presented, and should not be done because the OC is a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You're implying that because Edwards went to Stanford, he's smarter than Schonert? Or even the Ivy League grad Dick Jauron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Or even the Ivy League grad Dick Jauron? Actually, I only posed the question 'cause Schonert is also a Stanford grad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Actually, I only posed the question 'cause Schonert is also a Stanford grad. That should show you how much I really care about the Turk .... or this coaching staff in general .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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